Ipswich Unemployed Action.

Campaigning for Unemployed Rights.

BBC Panorama Shows Tory Universal Credit Regime “setting up some claimants ‘to fail’ .”

with 493 comments

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Ipswich Unemployed Action, and many of our contributors, have said that the issues around Universal Credit have not made much of an impact during the election.

Anybody who wants to know what Boris Johnson thinks of people less well-off or protected than himself – from NHS patients to us lot – could see the man himself in action yesterday.

Last night the BBC screened this programme, (originally it was listed for the week before) that went into how Universal Credit (UC) affects people’s lives.

The BBC faces criticisms for allowing the likes of Johnson ample room to spout his opinions. Some say that the media are slanted towards the Tories.

But Universal Credit – One Year On with Catrin Nye is a thorough, moving demolition of the Tory Universal Credit system, from the sanctions regime, to the mess it has left many claimants in.

At the start of the programme we were told that Universal Credit  is designed to simplify social security and other benefits.

It intends to “make work pay”.

What Catrin Nye showed is that UC is also made to make those out of work, disabled or unemployed, pay in financial misery.

It is made to make people out of well paid full time employment suffer.

It also illustrated how those in work who still need some help get trapped in a long list of difficulties.

Keith, who has mental health issues, came up with a topic many know all too well – how the all “on line” system is a barrier in itself.

Panorama looked at the reality behind the  massive increase in the numbers of  people paying off debts (from rent arrears to UC loans).

Case studies of those trapped in its clutches, reduced to scrambling for money, illustrated just how damaging UC is.

One striking thing was that advice agencies, like the CAB and Shelter, are now acting as full-time case workers to help those in need.

Families, not well off themselves,  are forced to come to the rescue.

These real life stories are probably more effective than any high-sounding political speech in showing what’s wrong with Universal Credit.

To put it simply, UC is, as many have claimed before, “setting people up to fail”.

The BBC is to be congratulated for this excellent programme. 

 

 

 

Universal credit is setting up some claimants “to fail”, charity staff have told BBC’s Panorama.

BBC.

Since October 2017, the Department for Work and Pensions says 60% of eligible new claimants have been given an advance or loan to help them manage the five-week wait for their first payment.

The DWP deducts money from claimants’ monthly benefit payment to repay this, as well as other debts they might have.

But after deductions are made, many say they are “struggling” to cope.

Housing charity Shelter says deductions for rent arrears are now double what they were under the old system.

The DWP says they have put safeguards in place to make sure repayments are affordable.

When universal credit was first announced in 2010, the then Work and Pensions secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, said it would replace a “complex, outdated and wildly expensive system”.

It combined six benefits – child tax credit, housing benefit, income support, jobseekers’ allowance, employment and support allowance and working tax credit – into one.

The government said the new system was designed to make work pay and encourage people, some of them the most vulnerable in society, to manage their own finances.

Flintshire in north Wales was one of the first areas to test the new system.

Last year, BBC Panorama visited the area and found people struggling to adjust.

Since then, the government has made changes and Panorama has returned to see how claimants are managing.

A year ago, Keith, who has mental health problems, was at risk of losing his home.

Universal credit encourages people to manage their own finances – including making their own rent payments – but he was struggling to cope and was behind with the rent on his council house.

Today, Keith has managed to hold onto his home after housing charity Shelter helped him change the way his benefits are paid.

The housing element of his benefit cheque now goes direct to his landlord, the council.

He is one of 2.6 million people on universal credit across the country

By the end of 2023, the Department for Work and Pensions says the system will be fully rolled out

It expects some seven million households to be claiming the new benefit.

Debt Repayment.

To repay the debts Keith built up to cover his rent, he has money deducted from his universal credit payments every month.

As a result, he has less to live on. He told BBC Panorama: “It’s a struggle”.

Victoria Tomlinson, the Shelter advisor who helped Keith with his rent arrears, says the system is routinely taking double the deductions compared to what happened previously.

She told Panorama that tenants with arrears should pay them back, but added, “you can’t make somebody pay something when they don’t have it”. If the repayments are too high “then you’re setting them up to fail”.

The programme met others who say they too are struggling with debt under universal credit.

Helen Barnard, deputy director of policy and partnerships at the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, told the BBC many claimants can be out of pocket from the start because they have to wait for their first payment.

“This all starts really with the fact that there is a minimum five-week wait at the beginning of your claim before your income comes through, so what’s offered is an advance – which is a loan,” she said.

“So what that does is pulls people into debt right at the beginning of their claim.”

Rebecca and her young family moved into a council flat in north Wales in February last year and couldn’t afford a lot of the basics for their new home

Her partner is a chef but his work is irregular so the couple depend on benefits.

Family help

“We needed everything. The only thing we had was a bed and a cot, that was literally it.

“So I reached out to universal credit and I was like, well, I’m going to have to get a loan out,” Rebecca told the BBC.

She secured an advance and now around £90 is deducted from her benefits every month to repay it, and other debts.

The couple say this leaves them without enough money at the end of every month and they have to turn to Rebecca’s family for help.

The DWP says it has put safeguards in place to make sure repayments are affordable, adding that claimants can contact them to negotiate lower payments and have 12 months to pay back any advances.

But Ms Barnard says that unlike financial institutions, “the Department of Work and Pensions doesn’t have any standard affordability assessment” and the system “assumes” that the person applying for an advance understands how it works.

The DWP says that many tenants on universal credit have pre-existing rent arrears, but the proportion of people with arrears reduces over time

Written by Andrew Coates

December 10, 2019 at 10:03 am

493 Responses

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  1. You have only to read the early writings of Iain Duncan Smith on the subject of unemployment and ‘ benefit reform ‘ to see the reality of Universal Credit. It was designed from the start to end what the Tories saw as people not caring if they worked or not. The ‘Skivers’ of austerity rhetoric. Long-term unemployed. And to force these people off their benefits and into work. Duncan Smith felt that if people would not work out of a sense of morality, then he would make them work, under the threat of poverty.

    Jeff Smith

    December 10, 2019 at 11:43 am

    • But it’s not just a case of “morality”, there are a wide variety of reasons why some people struggle to find a job they can do, or the ability to hold down a job. The demise of traditional industries, the availability of suitable local jobs that people without transport can get to, lack of skills or relevant experience and competition for jobs, one’s age and state of health, mental ill health such as Depression, a whole host of obstacles and reasons. In my area there used to be many large firms that employed 3000 people in one mill or factory and had all sorts of jobs for everyone, skilled, semi-skilled and unskilled. They would also train people to do the job. They also had jobs for Office staff/clerical, as well as cleaners, labourers, drivers, catering staff etc. Many had steady jobs more suitable for older workers, not all “fast paced” as they are now, and often shift work situated many miles away. The traditional jobs have all gone. The factories demolished, the old textile mills converted into flats. All that remains is agency work, insecure and low paid, fast paced, miles away with unreliable and expensive public transport.

      trev

      December 10, 2019 at 11:57 am

      • It pretends that people will be a lot better off by working part time, which isn’t true because it fails to take into account bus fares. I’ve just been reading a notice on the wall in the Jobcentre that gives an example of someone doing part time work that earns £200 per month, but says that instead of being £200 better off they will be £74 per month better off, but seeing as a weekly local bus ticket costs around £15 per week that £74 suddenly turns into just £14. So basically if you work around 9 or 10 hours a week on UC and catch the bus to work you will be about 15 quid a month better off for your troubles. Hardly making work pay is it?

        trev

        December 10, 2019 at 3:02 pm

      • It stayed with me leaving school my parents moved to an are where a local will paper factory closed and being at the end of a then DHSS queue that snaked around a building outside and then down a drive and then standing at the end.I never forgot the sight of how a closure can effect an area,as a young person the the then careers offficer through in the towel and turned and said”were not trying to get rid of you but is there any chance you can go back to where you come from”.Norman Tebbit’s abhorrent comment his father about on your bike to look for work when the country was heading for decline ignored the skills of someone,availability of suitable available employment for that person.For some it was all over as their lives were just beginning.

        https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/8231062/Harold-Macmillan-lectured-Margaret-Thatcher-on-economy.html

        https://www.theguardian.com/uk/blog/2010/dec/30/supermac-was-right-1980-and-right-now

        ken

        December 12, 2019 at 10:33 pm

      • Yes Ken, I remember standing in the dole queue in February 1980 outside the old Unemployment Benefits Office prior to Jobcentres. It was snowing and it seemed like half my town had been made redundant, the queue stretched out of the office, up the drive about 50 yards and right down into the street. I queued for an hour to get to the door, then another 20 mins. to get to the desk. It’s a sight I’ll never forget, it seemed like a scene belonging to the 1920s or 30s.

        trev

        December 12, 2019 at 10:43 pm

    • @jeff Smith, Exactly right Jeff. Universal Credit is based on this Bible morality, and the Protestant work ethic.
      (though IDS is a Catholic ). It’s nothing more than an official kick up the backside to the unemployed. Only as usual with the Tories, they didn’t know when to stop. And the whole system is so severe on the claimants that it is completely stupid.

      Alan Turner

      December 10, 2019 at 2:02 pm

    • The DWP claim they are “making work pay” but this is the reality of Universal Credit:

      https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/23/million-families-cut-universal-credit-benefits-debts

      trev

      December 17, 2019 at 5:23 pm

  2. Assuming that the row from Brexit dies down a bit next year, temporarily at least, if we end up remaining or securing a transitional deal to ease our exit out of the EU, people will start to look around them and noticing really awful things like Universal Credit that are ruining people’s live every moment of every day. When they see men, women and children being driving into deep poverty and even homelessness because of “welfare reform” introduced by the Tories, I believe that whoever is in government will be forced to mitigate or abolish Universal Credit because as so many of us know it is a disastrous and an evil thing.

    At the heart of Universal Credit is the ambition to effect “behavioural change” in benefit claimants by means of punishment (sanctions, pointless activities and surveillance) and reward (allowing claimants to keep small amounts of earnings etc). Just like training a dog to do tricks by feeding it treats or electrocuting the poor animal with a shock collar as the current Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, Therese Coffey, used to do, Universal Credit’s system was supposed to alter the behaviour, character and personalities of its victims to make them more compliant and more like the kind of people which the Tories thought would be more useful and productive.

    Here’s a related article that spells this out:

    https://www.redpepper.org.uk/universal-credit-isnt-about-saving-money-its-about-disciplining-unemployed-people/

    What made things even worse is that a delusional idiot, Iain Duncan Smith, was in charge of it aided and abetted by welfare dilettante Lord David Freud, previously of the New Labour party, who drove through atrocities like the infamous Bedroom Tax and the two-child limit on Child Tax Credit unless women affected could PROVE that the child they were trying to claim assistance towards had be conceived by means of violent rape. With totally inexpert repellent individuals like in charge of the UC project disaster was assured.

    Universal Credit is too great a monstrosity to stand and if the Tories win the general election you can be sure that eventually it will be them made to answer for it. Blame for this atrocity is a thing that the guilty will NOT be able escape or outrun and will one day be made to pay for.

    Jim

    December 10, 2019 at 12:23 pm

    • It is what psychiatrists ‘readjustment’. It is not about what is best for the individual but what benefits society as a whole. What benefits society may in fact be detrimental to an individual. Or as John Cotter put it ‘the world uses you’, not you use the world. Universal Credit is akin to Chairman’s Mao’s ‘mould’, the DWP will keep pressing you until you fit into the ‘mould’. Author’s such as Jacques Ellul have written about this in detail. There are already some excellent comments on this site explaining it all.

      Chairman Mao

      December 10, 2019 at 12:56 pm

      • Yep, it’s all about making square pegs fit in round holes.

        trev

        December 10, 2019 at 2:52 pm

    • It isn’t good,bungled tv ads,press advertisment campaigns,EU citizen confusion and a now matter what brexit deadline of 31st October ignoring all who travel is effected and to be ready was totally inempt and unrealistic timescale.The process was hijacked and is worrying for the future.

      https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/factories-lay-off-workers-at-fastest-rate-in-seven-years/

      ken

      December 11, 2019 at 1:40 am

  3. ‘Universal Credit is cruel and brutal’ Corbyn delivers speech in Wales.

    Violet

    December 10, 2019 at 1:16 pm

  4. When I signed on today it was another Group Signing session, had one time before last too. We were informed that as of 20th January all JSA signings will be Group Sessions as all the Advisers except one are moving to UC. So there will be just one Adviser for all the JSA claimants in my Jobcentre. They’re trying like hell to sell the idea of UC to us, in the hope that we will take them at their word and blow our JSA claims by accepting part time jobs. Fat chance. There was no mention of the fact that since UC was partially introduced in my area two years ago (for new claims and changes of circumstances only) the local foodbank has seen a 300% increase in referrals.

    trev

    December 10, 2019 at 3:19 pm

    • @ trev – We don’t have this ? Still plenty of JC advisors doing JSA at my Jobcentre.
      Sounds like some local thing to me. But its a good way to keep the pressure on, and make people think about transferring to Universal Credit.

      Larry T.

      December 10, 2019 at 10:10 pm

  5. People seem to forget that the existence of soup kitchens and food banks etc., is completely incidental and universal credit would have still been introduced if these services had not been available and expanded to fill gaping holes in the welfare safety net. Imagine a UK without bodies like churches, Salvation Army and the Trussell Trust supporting the impoverished and doing good work in the community, for no reward, because that is the world which the Tories envisaged when planning and later rolling out UC to millions.

    Kenzie

    December 10, 2019 at 4:06 pm

    • Those of us who work at the foodbanks are fully aware of that, we do it to help people but at the same time we know that foodbanks are a symptom of a failed State. Without such help there would undoubtedly be more crime, more homelessness, more kids getting put in care, and more deaths either from starvation or suicides, and more people being admitted to hospital for the effects of malnutrition. Society is already falling apart at the seams, just held together by a thread, but the Tories don’t give a monkey’s and things will only get worse under them

      trev

      December 10, 2019 at 4:48 pm

      • Agree which is why this (2 days ago) was sickening:

        A Tory candidate has prompted anger by suggesting that people using food banks struggle with managing their budget.

        Darren Henry was branded “utterly clueless” and lacking in compassion after making the remarks at a hustings in the Broxtowe constituency on Friday.

        Drawing cries of shock and outrage from audience members, Mr Henry said: “When they go down to the food bank, what they struggle with is maybe being able to manage their budget.”

        The proliferation of food banks, which were rare before the 2008 financial crash, has increased hugely under the Conservative government, with many experts and campaigners blaming austerity and policies such as universal credit for driving the surge in need.

        Demand for food banks reached a record high in 2019, according to data from the UK’s largest provider the Trussell Trust.”

        https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-candidate-food-banks-poor-families-budget-darren-henry-broxtowe-a9238076.html

        Andrew Coates

        December 10, 2019 at 5:49 pm

      • What an idiot, clueless and out of touch. How can anyone budget effectively when there’s nothing to budget with? When you underpay Benefits by 40%, then apply Sanctions to stop the payment of those meagre Benefits, or make deductions for advances that people have no choice but to take, or further deductions for alleged overpayment of Working Tax Credits, and then on top of that you pay a miniscule amount to people monthly and in arrears when they are already in arrears with rent and Council Tax, and you do this to people who have no other sources of income and no savings or capital, wtf do you expect them to live on? For many people it’s a choice between feeding themselves or feeding their children OR putting the heating on. It’s a choice between buying food or paying the rent, or paying the electric OR the Council Tax, but whatever you do there is not enough money for everything. The Tories do not have a bloody clue how poor people live, or what the costs of living are for ordinary folk who have nothing to fall back on.

        trev

        December 10, 2019 at 6:06 pm

      • The dumb little Tory sh1t mentioned above is only aping something which Dominic Raab, formerly Foreign Secretary briefly under Boris Johnson, suggested over two years ago, i.e., people driven to food banks were there because they has “cash flow” problems.

        https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2017/may/29/dominic-raab-food-bank-users-have-cashflow-problem-periodically-video

        It’s the kind of thing which rapists and paedophiles say to excuse violations and violence: the very worst and vilest criminals and abuser very often try to blame victims for crimes committed against them.

        Winston Winstanley

        December 10, 2019 at 6:02 pm

  6. A Decade of The Tories

    trev

    December 10, 2019 at 6:20 pm

  7. It intends to “make work pay”.

    The Simply we don’t pay you isn’t working,either are the Conservative’s.We’ve been abandoned as unemployed to a system that tie’s people up in a knot and abondon’s them to fate through a historically Conservative caused economic problem.

    It has to be admired the comradeship between the homeless i’ve witnessed on the streets locally something the Conservaties have sought to devide society and turn neighbour against neighbour.The divide widens.

    ken

    December 10, 2019 at 9:10 pm

  8. These Tory remarks on foodbanks are just another attempt to push the usual excuses and diversions.
    Their cruel austerity policies caused foodbanks in the first place. They were almost unknown before the 2008 financial crash.

    Graham Parker

    December 10, 2019 at 10:06 pm

  9. Jon Ashworth and his comments on Jeremy Corbyn ! At this point in the election. What you can you say ?
    Another gift to the Tories.

    Tom Sutton

    December 10, 2019 at 10:17 pm

    • You should be happy then, shouldn’t you Tom?

      KJ

      December 11, 2019 at 1:26 am

  10. Universal Credit Claimants Union

    https://theuccu.org/

    trev

    December 10, 2019 at 11:11 pm

  11. It is funny how everyone missed the doctor’s comments about disability assessments. “The system had to change because the old system was being abused. But maybe it has been tightened a little too much.”
    And that is exactly why Labour brought in the WCA (Work Capability Assessment). How can anyone countenance a social security system being abused? And yet we have those who want to roll back to the old system. Quite possibly many of those are the same people who were abusing the old system or those who abuse the old system if it were reintroduced. Maybe they are the same people who keep highlighting every time someone who is ‘fit to work’ dies regardless of if other factors were at play such as natural causes?

    Grace Wankota

    December 11, 2019 at 9:37 am

    • Komrade Coates only notices what suits his Marxist, Stalinist, Trotskyist agenda 😉

      Bolshie Vick

      December 11, 2019 at 9:43 am

      • Perhaps the word you’re looking for is *Socialist*, which is all about caring for people, you know, like Jesus said.

        trev

        December 11, 2019 at 9:59 am

    • @ Grace

      Don’t you think the decision of a person’s Doctor should be good enough in deciding whether someone is fit for work? Or are you saying that Doctors don’t know what they are doing, or are not to be trusted?

      trev

      December 11, 2019 at 10:02 am

      • Are you suggesting that we go back to the old system, the one that was abused? The system that even doctors recognise was being abused? Do you think it is OK for social security to be abused? Do you think it is OK for people to fraudulently claim (disability) benefits? Because that is what you appear to be asking for? Or is that what you mean by ‘socialism’?

        Grace Wankota

        December 11, 2019 at 10:40 am

      • Any fraud that did exist in the Social Security system was and still is miniscule and very marginal, often less than the margin of error.

        Now back to my question that you haven’t yet answered; are you saying that qualified NHS Doctors, GPs and Consultants are incompetent?

        trev

        December 11, 2019 at 10:49 am

      • trev, do you question the doctor’s professionalism and judgement who said that the old system was being abused? Is he incompetent?

        Grace Wankota

        December 11, 2019 at 10:55 am

      • Well for a start off I would question the authenticity of that claim, but in any case the isolated Political opinion of one Doctor hardly constitutes validity of such a claim. The facts are that the amounts spent on detecting fraudulent Social Security claims has always far outweighed the amounts actually being defrauded, i.e. the vast majority of Social Security claims are genuine.

        Now back to my original question; do you think qualified NHS Doctors and relevant NHS Specialist Consultant Surgeons are sufficiently competent to decide the levels of fitness of their patients, yes or no?

        trev

        December 11, 2019 at 11:05 am

      • lol nobody is questioning doctor’s fitness to practice. And a TV programme is not going to feature every single doctor up and down the land. It would be boring and repetitive. TV programmes don’t work like that. And are your saying that the doctor featured is incompetent and a liar? You appear to accept that it OK for people to claim disability benefit fraudulently just so long as the numbers are ‘miniscule’? Answer the question, trev, is it OK for people to claim disability benefits fraudulently (just so long as the amount of claims are miniscule)? Do you countenance (disability) benefit fraud?

        The truth being told, trev, you are thinking of putting in such a bogus claim. You are hoping that a Corbyn government will roll back the changes the previous Labour government made and reintroduce the old much abused system. You can’t wait to pop into the surgery to get a line and put in your claim. That is why you are urging us to vote Labour. It is obvious and no doubt the audience can see right through you.

        Grace Wankota

        December 11, 2019 at 11:45 am

      • Sorry, I cannot adequately respond to the emotive and unsubstantiated incoherent ramblings of an assumptive Reactionary Tory troll.

        I suggest you accept Thomas G. Clark’s ‘Tory Challenge’ and see if your limited intellect is capable of defending the indefensible:

        https://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.com/2017/05/the-tory-challenge.html?m=1

        Please be sure to scroll right to the end to read the rules of engagement prior to submitting your attempt.

        trev

        December 11, 2019 at 12:21 pm

      • I know a number of people who have been through the assessment system, with serious disabilities and illnesses, and have failed the test, only to win on appeal.

        This comes out in statistics.

        AS you say Trev this a Tory troll but it is made on grounds we can answer this one because it can be replied to with facts which is the best way of doing so.

        By contrast, I have deleted the barking anti-semite Tory troll Violet incidentally.

        ‘Her’ and ‘her’ mates are alt-right US types.

        Andrew Coates

        December 11, 2019 at 12:56 pm

      • lol you are not going to answer the question, trev, are you? Do you condone fraudulent disability benefits claims? Are you OK with people stealing money from the public purse? It a really simple answer. Yes or No? And no more of you obfuscation and distraction.

        Grace Wankota

        December 11, 2019 at 12:33 pm

      • Of course I don’t condone fraud,whether it be perpetrated by Social Security claimants or Tax dodging Billionaires. Wtf is your problem?

        trev

        December 11, 2019 at 12:37 pm

      • It appears as if we are going to have to leave the audience to decide what your game is, trev.

        Grace Wankota

        December 11, 2019 at 12:35 pm

      • Coates, you have missed the point completely either through ignorance or more likely willfully, As the good doctor said the old system was open to abuse and had to change. You can’t argue with that seriously. The
        good doctor also stated that maybe the pendulum had swung too far. You can’t argue with that either. The system definitely need tweaking and rebalanced so that those who are genuinely disabled are not caused unnecessary suffering. What trev and his ilk are arguing for is a return to a system that was widely open to abuse. Right-minded people do not support such a system and will not vote in a Government who support such a system either.

        Grace Wankota

        December 11, 2019 at 1:09 pm

      • And if anyone is to blame for what genuinely disabled people are presently put through it is the fraudsters who were abusing the old system.

        Grace Wankota

        December 11, 2019 at 1:11 pm

      • So you’re saying that the answer to miniscule amounts of fraud that constitute less than the margin of error (1%) is to take a hammer to a walnut approach by subjecting seriously ill and disabled people to the stress of repeated assessments done by unqualified private companies paid to pass people as fit for work regardless of medical evidence to the contrary. And then said people should all be subjected to the further stress, duress, inconvenience and indignity of appealing against those incorrect decisions, the majority of which are successful appeals. What sort of system is that? And how much is it costing the Taxpayers?

        trev

        December 11, 2019 at 1:19 pm

      • Trev, an ideal system would cause minimal distress and inconvenience to genuinely disabled claimants and catch the fraudsters out. It is just a matter of getting the balance right. If you design a system that is too lax human nature dictates that unscrupulous people will take advantage of it. Also bear in mind that disability benefits are a lot higher than meagre unemployment benefits so there is a large incentive for people to attempt to defraud the system. Again, the blame for what is happening to genuinely disabled people lies at the feet of the fraudsters. Nobody, no even alleged Tory trolls begrudge genuinely disabled people their benefits.

        Grace Wankota

        December 11, 2019 at 1:30 pm

      • Outsourcing such assessments to Private companies to act as paid-by-result unqualified decision makers has proven to be ineffective and counterproductive as it costs more and is detrimental to the health and wellbeing of those being assessed. Doctors are better able to decide whether a person is fit for work or not.

        trev

        December 11, 2019 at 1:35 pm

      • Trev, there is an ever so subtle difference between avoiding paying into the public purse and stealing from the public purse. Anyway, that is not what we are discussing.

        Grace Wankota

        December 11, 2019 at 1:36 pm

      • Then how would you tweak the old system, trev? We can’t go back to it as the good doctor said it was open to abuse and had to change. Although from what you are saying it is pretty obvious that that is what you want to return to. For whatever reason.

        Grace Wankota

        December 11, 2019 at 1:39 pm

      • I don’t think we should take the opinion of one random doctor (who may be Politically biased/motivated) as the basis for justifying the current system, especially considering all evidence to the contrary. I do think we should return to a system whereby a person’s fitness to work is decided by their own doctors or relevant NHS Specialists, people who are properly trained, qualified and experienced to make such a decision and who therefore are not easily fooled by would-be fraudsters. I believe we should return to the issue of Sick notes, not so-called ‘Fit notes’, by such Professionals, and qualification for such Benefits as ESA or PIP should solely be based upon that without the need for Third Party Assessments. Your argument is flawed from the beginning by being based on the erroneous assumption that fraud was widespread, when all evidence is to the contrary. The reason that the Tory government chose to disproportionately focus on this and make out that it is such a huge problem needing to be addressed is simply part of their biased approach as part of a wider propaganda campaign designed to demonize the most vulnerable as a means of deflecting interest away from the ill-gotten gains (and fraudulent activities) of the rich, besides of course their ongoing mission to Privatize the NHS by stealth,outsourcing medical work to Private companies, when in fact there never was such huge amount of Benefit fraud (sickness or otherwise) in the first place, as factual statistical evidence can prove. Under the Tories the assumption and false accusation is that all sick and disabled people are lying and all unemployed people are lazy. This is not the case. You might succumb to ill health yourself one day, or become disabled, could be a brain tumor, a heart problem, cancer, MS, or whatever, but how would you feel to be disbelieved and denied the Benefits to which you are entitled? The sheer number of successful Appeals proves the cruel ineffectiveness of the Tories’ system. People have even been awarded Benefit decisions posthumously, their spouse having turned up at the Tribunal holding an urn full of ashes. This has got to stop. That is why I will be voting Labour and why I am a Socialist.

        trev

        December 11, 2019 at 2:58 pm

  12. Andrew Coates

    December 11, 2019 at 10:08 am

  13. Fuck Sugar and fuck the Sun. The Daily Mail, on the other hand, have gone into full-scale panic mode over the Tories’ plummeting level of support:

    https://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2019/12/11/good-news-daily-mail-panicking-about-drop-in-tory-support/

    trev

    December 11, 2019 at 12:40 pm

  14. I am looking forward to seeing Jeremy as our new PM 😀

    Violet

    December 11, 2019 at 12:54 pm

    • You and me both, along with millions more,😊

      trev

      December 11, 2019 at 1:06 pm

      • @trev – I think only one of you is telling the truth here .And it’s not @Violet

        Dave M.

        December 11, 2019 at 5:11 pm

    • Me too, I will voting in about 10 mins, on way from work!

      xclausx

      December 12, 2019 at 8:51 am

    • Eh? The other day you claimed that Jezza was part of a Jewish conspiracy or something as was the Labour party which you said was founded by the Jewish Fabians. If people trawl back through the site’s articles they’ll find it.

      Cakey Rowe

      December 12, 2019 at 5:12 pm

      • I removed the US alt-right stuff, “Reopening Auschwitz” it’s there where it belongs in the ‘Trash’ like,

        “Furthermore, progenitrix apartment rise in the dentate gyrus increases after 3­48 h of VNS (Revesz et al. It should be based on age-appropriate expectations with clear, accordance guidelines while offering meaningful choices when possible. It asks in return unvarying communication between the developing team and the stakeholders and targeted end users. Before surgical amendment the infant hand down be thoroughly examined to detect whether there is any neural involvement or associated anomalies infection 3 weeks after c-section [url=http://capstonehealthalliance.com/bulletin/generic-chloramphenicol-250mg-mastercard/]buy chloramphenicol 250 mg low cost[/url] antibiotic resistance livestock.”

        Andrew Coates

        December 12, 2019 at 5:41 pm

      • @ Andrew

        I’m confused. In your reply to ‘Cakey Rowe’ I understand the first bit about you having removed alt-Right stuff but what is the rest all about, all that stuff about antibiotics?

        Regarding that article (The Reopening of….) whilst at first glance the title appears to be very offensive and controversial it was actually a reference to a comment made by a Sunday Telegraph journalist about Jeremy Corbyn, and the article is actually a very good one, all about the demonization of Corbyn by the Rightwing.

        trev

        December 12, 2019 at 7:43 pm

  15. Leave trev alone! This is not the freaking Andrew Neil interview!

    Mrs Mop

    December 11, 2019 at 1:43 pm

    • @ Mrs Mop , @trev is clearly a compassionate man, who is talking sense. One or two of the Tory trolls on here simply don’t like it, because they have no answer to the utter cruelty of their policies. Other than denial and stupidity. Somehow I don’t think these people are going to chase @trev off the site… because he knows that he is right, whatever they say. And he will still be right, when they have got bored and taken their stupid troll comments elsewhere.

      Alan Turner

      December 11, 2019 at 5:00 pm

      • Well thank you for those warm comments Alan, no I’ve not been chased off, merely busy with a hundred other things, including bringing the bins back in for my house and my neighbour who is recovering from a serious heart attack, and is definitely not attempting to defraud the system I might add.

        trev

        December 11, 2019 at 5:30 pm

  16. ‘ello, ‘ello! Has this site being turned into a police interrogation room?

    Inspector Kipper of the Yard

    December 11, 2019 at 1:47 pm

  17. Trev, in case you missed it you can hear the good doctor speak here:

    From 21:15

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000by8m/panorama-universal-credit-one-year-on

    Grace Wankota

    December 11, 2019 at 1:57 pm

  18. Laura Kuenssberg has broadcast, on air, that she has been told by ‘both sides’ that postal votes are in, have been looked at and are looking bad for Labour. Even admitting that this is not supposed to happen.

    This looks like a serious breach of electoral law, specifically the 1983 Representation of the People Act, which states that:

    ‘No person shall, in the case of an election to which this section applies, publish before the poll is closed

    (a) any statement relating to the way in which voters have voted at the election where that statement is (or might reasonably be taken to be) based on information given by voters after they have voted, or

    (b) any forecast as to the result of the election which is (or might reasonably be taken to be) based on information so given.’

    So, there is a potential breach of election law if postal votes have been opened ahead of election day and Laura Kuenssberg has, separately, clearly breached the Representation of the People Act.

    Surely the Electoral Commission and the Police have no choice but to act on this?

    sarah7

    December 11, 2019 at 4:09 pm

  19. I hope to God we get a Labour victory, and not a Return To The Tory Lands.

    Last Jarl

    December 11, 2019 at 5:04 pm

    • @last jarl – Yes, even if they have to make a deal with those political Skin-Shifters, the LibDems.

      Hrothgar

      December 11, 2019 at 6:18 pm

      • A deal between Labour and the LibDems? I can’t see that happening! Swinson is always slandering the Labour party, she’s very Rightwing and hates Corbyn, hates Socialism. If anything it will be a deal between Labour and the SNP, though I’m hoping for a Labour landslide.

        trev

        December 11, 2019 at 6:42 pm

  20. The Tories just don’t care,
    There are poor people everywhere,
    They are the cause of it,
    But they just don’t give a shit.
    They sold the British Public,
    Their failed austerity plan,
    They have lied and deceived for nine long years,
    Cut everything they can,
    The NHS in ruins, social security too,
    Foodbanks are now in every town,
    Homeless people on the street.
    Hundreds of children in poverty,
    Without enough food to eat,
    But the Tory boys like Johnson,
    They still don’t give a shit,
    They’re above the likes of you and me,
    And don’t see what’s wrong with it.

    Passing Poet

    December 11, 2019 at 5:48 pm

  21. Child poverty on target for 40% by 2022 if the Tories stay in government:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/05/children-poverty-rise-40-percent-tories-spending-cuts-labour

    trev

    December 11, 2019 at 6:51 pm

    • I have arthritis and an unrelated back problem and spend 25 hours a week doing back breaking school cleaning. I’m currently on silly amounts of codeine ( (allergic to nurofen) for neck and shoulder pain. I don’t even claim housing part of UC I’m too scared of ot. I know one day I’ll literally keel over or seize up and then I’ll struggle and starve with UC and thrown on he scrap heap at a time when the benefits system should be helping me. At mid 50’s I don’t think I’ll even live to draw pension at 67….

      katrehman

      December 12, 2019 at 5:50 am

      • The choice is simple.

        Tories – Continue with universal credit but vow to ensure it “works for the most vulnerable”. End the benefit freeze and bring in tough punishments for those who cheat the system. £1bn would be spent on extra childcare places for before and after school, and during the holidays.

        Labour – Scrap universal credit and replace the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) with a Department for Social Security. Benefit cap and the two-child policy will be axed. Pilot universal basic income in certain areas. £58bn for those affected by state pension age changes, known as Waspi women,

        xclausx

        December 12, 2019 at 12:48 pm

      • Let the games begin!

        President Coriolanus Snow

        December 12, 2019 at 1:00 pm

  22. I did jury service for a ‘benefit cheat’ charge at the Old Bailey. What’s fascinating is how badly the police were at lying, considering they do it every day. It didn’t seem to bother anyone though and seemed to be just part of the game. I knew a solicitor who did criminal work and she left the job because, as she said, ‘Everyone lies, all the time: the police, the defendant, the barristers, everyone.’

    Streatham

    December 12, 2019 at 2:10 pm

    • I never knew that you could have a jury trial if prosecuted for benefit fraud. You learn a little something every day. Blimey! The trial would probably cost more than the money defrauded from the public purse!

      Wallace

      December 12, 2019 at 5:08 pm

  23. A word from Ash Sarkar:

    trev

    December 12, 2019 at 2:13 pm

  24. One for the lovers of classical music….

    trev

    December 12, 2019 at 2:30 pm

    • @trev – This is a post replete with melody and erudition.

      Jasper Harrington

      December 12, 2019 at 5:51 pm

      • Indeed. I find it to be quite a joyous and stirring piece, or in modern vernacular, well good innit?

        trev

        December 12, 2019 at 6:52 pm

  25. trev

    December 12, 2019 at 3:35 pm

  26. Us Labour supporters have been hard at work in Ipswich,

    Andrew Coates

    December 12, 2019 at 4:41 pm

  27. They should have let him keep the phone, and then called the police.

    Sam Socialist

    December 12, 2019 at 5:55 pm

  28. Dog Bites Tory:

    https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/councillor-suffers-serious-dog-bite-17409056

    If I had a dog I would have trained it to bite Tories, but instead I’ll have to settle for training my old tom cat to piss on them…

    trev

    December 12, 2019 at 9:36 pm

  29. I’ve got a very bad feeling the evil Tory scum are going to win, I am f*cking dreading another 5 years of those murdering barstards & their crap, God help us!

    Violet

    December 12, 2019 at 10:22 pm

    • If that turns out to be the case then those members of the British public that voted for them truly deserve all they get, in heaps. Trouble is it takes all of us down with them, much more suffering to come, mass suicides, mass homelessness, mass starvation, no NHS, the death of the economy, no industry, no jobs, mass unemployment. The ‘Pale Horse’ of the Apocalypse will trample the entire nation underfoot, all except the rich.

      trev

      December 12, 2019 at 10:31 pm

      • The problem isn’t the public, Trev, it was Jeremy Corbyn and if Labour continue electing leaders who the membership adores but non-members don’t trust or even despise Labour will never, not in a million years, ever be returned to power. As it is it might take decades to gradually win back mass support for the party in its former homelands thanks to Corbyn’s stint as leader. Until people face up to this glaring fact Labour will be little more than a pressure group complaining about successive Tory governments from the sidelines.

        (The latest prediction I’ve seen say Boris Johnson looks set to win a 179 majority.)

        Martin

        December 13, 2019 at 5:35 am

      • @ Martin

        Corbyn is a great bloke, and had a fantastic manifesto. He was demonized, smeared and misrepresented by the Rightwing and the media like no other Politician ever has been. Brexit won this election, or to put it bluntly Racism and Xenophobia won this election. Shame on England.

        trev

        December 13, 2019 at 6:46 am

      • You say that, trev, but Sophie Raworth has just wheeled out a coloured woman who, wait for it… voted Tory.
        Sophie didn’t probe but she could well have been an ex-Labour voted, or now that she has done well for herself and no longer needs Labour has turned.

        And then we have Emily Mailtless, who has wheeled on Jon Lansmans, right? left? handed woman, Lorna Taylor, blaming as you rightly say, trev, the electorate for Corbyn and Labour’s electoral wipeout, “if the electorate had voted differently the result would have been difference,

        The BBC is selling the Tories as the ‘party of the working-classes’. How will these new ‘blue-collar Tories’ fare under Boris?

        Fatima

        December 13, 2019 at 9:53 am

    • I voted Labour like a sane person. My father and brother both voted Tory… next time they bitch about the government, I’m going to take an almost malicious glee in pointing out they voted for the bastards and to shut up whinging about the consequences of their actions.

      AeonThePhoenix

      December 12, 2019 at 11:31 pm

    • Instead of being at the forefront in the European community,we’re limping out the back door on a third class ticket.

      ken

      December 13, 2019 at 12:53 am

  30. Oh shit ! #Progress

    Frank Harper

    December 12, 2019 at 11:54 pm

  31. Looks like Return To The Tory Lands after all. Personally, I’m off on the next boat to the Far Lands.

    Breca

    December 13, 2019 at 12:00 am

  32. Labour in the lead at the moment hope they can keep it up & knock those f*ckers out.

    Here’s hoping.

    Violet

    December 13, 2019 at 12:21 am

    • Labour is on track to suffer its worst defeat since 1935. Thanks Jezza.

      Martin

      December 13, 2019 at 5:21 am

  33. Corbyn vows to “fight on”.

    CNN Breaking

    December 13, 2019 at 1:37 am

    • Corbyn: “I won’t stand down. I am determined to lead the Labour Party into the next election.”

      Breaking Wind

      December 13, 2019 at 6:21 am

  34. What everybody knew was going to happen has happened. Labour has not only lost the election but lost the North of the country just like it lost Scotland, neither former stronghold looking like returning to the party anytime soon. As many of us predicted Corbyn, loved by the faithful, wasn’t acceptable to the majority of voters a fact exacerbated by Brexit. It’s all over now for FIVE YEARS. If Labour don’t elected a much better leader who can win favour with the general public the party will remain sidelined and out of power FOREVER.

    You red hot Labourites wouldn’t listen and it has brought us to ruin.

    And now FIVE YEARS of Tory misrules begins.

    Martin

    December 13, 2019 at 5:16 am

    • Momentum Central Planning Committee chairperson is saying that “the electorate must take full responsibility for Labour’s defeat. The electorate, and only the electorate are to blame.”

      No Momentum

      December 13, 2019 at 6:00 am

    • Momentum Central Planning Committee chairperson, Jon Lansman, is saying that “the electorate must take full responsibility for Labour’s defeat. The electorate, and only the electorate are to blame.” is saying that “the electorate must take full responsibility for Labour’s defeat. The electorate, and only the electorate are to blame.”


      Jon Lansman – Momentum Central Planning Committee chairperson

      No Momentum

      December 13, 2019 at 6:05 am

      • Mr. Lansman is right, the electorate are to blame. Through their own stupidity, gullibility, and Political illiteracy, they have made their bed and will now have to lie in it. Shame on England.

        trev

        December 13, 2019 at 6:55 am

      • @ No Momentum – Very true. Much of this disgraceful failure is down to the hard-left Once again Labour have had to learn the eternal lesson of politics. If you abandon the centre-ground, it always leads to disaster. Will Lansman now resign ?

        David Moreton

        December 13, 2019 at 12:42 pm

      • After the East Berlin rising in 1953, Bertolt Brecht is supposed to have made the ironic suggestion that the Communist regime, against whom the people were rebelling, should dismiss the people and appoint a new one (who were willing to stick with Communism rather than put up with such a uppity people). When you lose an election as atrociously as Labour just has under Lansman’s Corbynism blaming the people for not supporting you rather than listening to them and understanding their concerns shows how utterly lost the left have become and how totally out of tune Labour is now with the British electorate.

        Dennis Skinner’s constituency of Balsover is now Tory for Christ’s sake!

        A majority of 80+ seat is not easy to overturn after one parliament and so it looks as though we are in for a long, possibly very long, period of Tory government. When Margaret Thatcher (and later John Major) won her (his) elections, with much smaller majorities, Tory rule went on for EIGHTEEN YEARS! Lansman and Corbyn have led the Labour party to ruin just as many of us predicted. It is Lansman and Corbyn who are to blame for this complete and utter disaster not the people who couldn’t stomach voting for a party led by a man like Jezza.

        Pop goes the Weasel

        December 13, 2019 at 1:34 pm

  35. Bugger! *cancels Mediterranean cruise*

    Irate WASPI

    December 13, 2019 at 5:56 am

  36. So there won’t b a country left after next 5 years we’ll all have starved of malnutrition ot dropped dead working til we drop. The British public who voted the tories back in really r turkeys voting 4 xmas…..

    katrehman

    December 13, 2019 at 6:12 am

    • Gullible idiots. Millions will now die. Prepare for Martial Law and the brutal rule of Dictator Boris. The struggle continues.

      trev

      December 13, 2019 at 6:52 am

      • After reading that bit of nonsense I’m beginning to wonder if you aren’t a bit mental, trev.

        Dandy Highway Man

        December 13, 2019 at 1:42 pm

      • ♫ Stand and deliver!

        I’m the dandy highwayman who you’re too scared to mention
        I spend my cash on looking flash and grabbing your attention
        The devil take your stereo and your record collection! (oh-oh)
        The way you look you’ll qualify for next year’s old age pension!

        Stand and deliver your money or your life!
        Try and use a mirror no bullet or a knife!

        I’m the dandy highwayman so sick of easy fashion
        The clumsy boots, peek-a-boo roots that people think so dashing
        So what’s the point of robbery when nothing is worth taking? (oh oh)
        It’s kind of tough to tell a scruff the big mistake he’s making

        Stand and deliver your money or your life!
        Try and use a mirror no bullet or a knife!

        And even though you fool your soul
        Your conscience will be mine
        All mine

        We’re the dandy highwaymen so tired of excuses
        Of deep meaning philosophies where only showbiz loses
        We’re the dandy highwaymen and here’s our invitation (oh oh)
        “Throw your safety overboard and join our insect nation”

        Stand and deliver your money or your life!
        Try and use a mirror no bullet or a knife!

        And even though you fool your soul
        Your conscience will be mine
        All mine ♫

        Adam Ant

        December 13, 2019 at 2:32 pm

      • @ Dandy Highwayman

        Boris has already lied to the Queen and illegally attempted to prorogue Parliament, and in case you were unaware Operation Yellowhammer /Redfold has already been enacted, thousands of troops are on standby to take over local Government as soon as Brexit happens (or at any point in between), then there’s the little matter of Page 48 of the Tory manifesto. The UK is sleepwalking into a Dictatorship lead by Emperor Boris.

        https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2019/12/05/page48-we-need-to-talk-about-the-tory-plan-to-impose-a-dictatorship-on-us/

        Tens of thousands of people have already been killed by the Tories over the last 9 years, another 5 years of Tory rule could see many more deaths. We have no Social Security safety net, foodbanks are already at breaking point, thousands of people will lose their jobs through Brexit, there is likely to be mass starvation. Many more lives will be lost due to the extortionate costs of treatment and healthcare under a soon to be Privatized NHS. And you say I’m mental? Who voted for this shit?

        trev

        December 13, 2019 at 8:13 pm

  37. It is not over yet for Corbyn and Labour. Orkney & Shetland have still to declare. The night is still young. Bojo better put that taxi to the Palace on hold. Jezza is on target to be the Prime Minister today. Get ready for a Labour government.

    Hope City

    December 13, 2019 at 6:12 am

  38. We voted for Boris and Christmas 😀

    The Turkey Family

    December 13, 2019 at 6:14 am

  39. Bad news for Coates when he crawls out of his coffin at daybreak.

    Count Dracula

    December 13, 2019 at 6:18 am

  40. trev

    December 13, 2019 at 8:04 am

    • That’s why Labour lost, the Tories will do the same on any future opposition leader, wait untill you see the next labour leader, a tory somewhere will start the process.

      xclausx

      December 13, 2019 at 11:39 am

  41. England has now become very sectarian, trouble is how do we know who to trust, who betrayed us, who are the Class Traitors hiding among us, which of our friends, neighbours, colleagues, voted Tory. How can we trust anyone ever again? It’s hard to imagine that anyone I know could be so stupid.

    trev

    December 13, 2019 at 8:13 am

    • Labour did badly in Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland too, mate. It was a case of “anybody but Corbyn” throughout the British Isles.

      Winston

      December 13, 2019 at 3:38 pm

  42. So Boris sneaks (back) into No 10 Downing Street with his mistress by a whisker. It’s hardly a ‘decisive’ victory.

    bev

    December 13, 2019 at 10:01 am

  43. And certainly ‘no mandate from the people’ for anything, including Breixt.

    bev

    December 13, 2019 at 10:02 am

  44. Well, that’s the end of Project Corbyn. This has been coming for some time. You can’t make people vote for an unpopular leader. Something Jon Lansman and Momentum seemed not to have realised.

    Tom Sutton

    December 13, 2019 at 12:37 pm

    • It may not be. Corbyn seems keen to stay on long enough to oversee the transition from his “leadership” to someone as like him as possible so that Labour remains ideologically pure and unelectable for as long as possible.

      Shell

      December 14, 2019 at 9:05 am

      • Exactly! If Corbyn had any shred of decency he would have resigned the moment it was clear that Labour had been trounced. Just like any other politician with an ounce of integrity would have done. But like a man with absolutely no sense of decency or shred of integrity Corbyn ambles on as if nothing has happened. He won’t shuffle off until il he has installed a Corbyn clone in his place. Many of his own and now former MPs gave damning speeches on Corbyn and Labour, Yet he puts his fingers in his ears and continues on. Corbyn is like someone completely disconnected from reality reading Marx and and real-world politics playing some fantasy ideological parlour game with his London-centic Islington buddies.

        Eve

        December 14, 2019 at 12:01 pm

  45. If only Jeremy Corbyn had stood down when he was asked to do so.
    When most of his own MP’s voted against him being leader.
    The whole Labour Party campaign has been crippled by Corbyn’s weak and indecisive leadership. He had the worst personal ratings of any political leader in modern history. With one election defeat already behind him, Corbyn just blindly pushed forwards to disaster. If it ever expects to govern again, the Labour Party has got some serious thinking to do.

    Jeff Smith

    December 13, 2019 at 12:55 pm

  46. And this Tory win means you can forget any ideas of scrapping Universal Credit. We can look forward to a full roll-out by 2023.

    Sorry I Voted Labour

    December 13, 2019 at 1:36 pm

  47. There must be three tests for a future Labour Leader:

    1. An IQ Test

    2. Public speaking

    3. Personal Appearance

    James G.

    December 13, 2019 at 2:05 pm

    • @ James G.

      There should be an IQ Test and Personality test for voters before they are allowed to vote, no one with a low IQ or Racist or Xenophobic views should be allowed to vote, no Psychopaths or Sociopaths should be allowed to vote.

      trev

      December 13, 2019 at 2:20 pm

      • That’s an interesting idea, trev. It is a wonder no-one has thought of it before 😉 How would it work in practice though. Would we all have to attend an IQ assessment centre prior to an election and be sent for assessment by a qualified psychiatrist/psychologist before being deemed ‘fit to vote’?

        Aatiqah

        December 13, 2019 at 2:28 pm

      • @ Aatiqah

        I’m not sure how it would work but yeah maybe something like that. After all, those of us who are unemployed are subjected to all sorts of tests all the time, I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve been required to sit Basic Skills assessments over the years, maths & literacy tests etc. even though I don’t need to, they could have saved money by just accepting nationally recognized qualifications as proof (i.e. 7 O-Levels, an Access certificate, two Diplomas and a Degree) but no, I had to sit those tests again and again at every Provider I’ve been sent to. I’ve just recently done an Employability skills course yet again this time at Interserve, regardless of the fact that I have a certificate in Employability Skills from Standguide only last year! The DWP waste money on all these pointless tests so why can’t the Government test everyone for something that actually matters?

        trev

        December 13, 2019 at 5:04 pm

      • The voters are allowed to be as ignorant and moronic as they like. That has always been a British tradition.
        It was Winston Churchill who said, that the greatest argument against democracy, was five minutes conversation with average voter.

        Peter B.

        December 13, 2019 at 5:27 pm

    • @ James G.

      4. Squeaky clean political personal history.

      Doing things like hobnobbing and consorting with members of terrorist organisations which kill and murder, campaigning for unilateral nuclear disarmament, failing to get a grip on antisemitism, e.g., allowing people who call out for the gassing of Jews and Israelis to remain active members of your party, for six months or more, AFTER being reported for antisemitism before expelling them, and bigging up the virtues of extreme left-wing governments who wreck and ruin the economies of their countries, as Chavez did in Venezuela, doesn’t exactly endear politicians to a majority of voters in the United Kingdom.

      Whatever else the Labour party does in the aftermath of this disaster it should try to pick a leader with a lot less baggage and personal history of getting things wrong than Jeremy Corbyn if it wants to be elected.

      Winston K.

      December 13, 2019 at 3:36 pm

      • @ Winston K, I agree. Corbyn didn’t do himself any favours in the public view, with things like meeting the IRA.

        Lance

        December 13, 2019 at 5:03 pm

      • @ Lance

        You see, that’s just another example of the casual way in which Jeremy Corbyn has been slandered and misrepresented by all and sundry. He didn’t just meet with the IRA, he met with both sides, the Loyalist paramilitaries too, and he was invited to do so by Mo Mowlam as part of the peace process.

        trev

        December 13, 2019 at 5:11 pm

      • Trev. Are you quite well, mate. The loyalist paramilitaries ARE terrorist organisations that kill and murder and just because you met them as well as the IRA doesn’t mean that you DIDN’T meet the IRA.

        Shell

        December 14, 2019 at 9:03 am

      • @ Shell

        So how would any sort of peace agreement have been negotiated if no one met or talked to both sides?

        trev

        December 14, 2019 at 10:30 am

      • @ trev

        Jeremy Corbyn was NOT a member of ANY government when he shared a platform with terrorists and therefore could negotiate NOTHING on behalf of the British people. In fact Corbyn has NEVER been part of ANY government EVER and has NEVER had the right or power to treat with or deal with anybody, anywhere, about anything politically on behalf of the UK – least of all with killers, murders and terrorists like the bloody Irish paramilitaries or murderous Hamas.

        Shell

        December 14, 2019 at 10:42 am

      • He was invited to talk to the paramilitaries by Mo Mowlam as part of the peace process. There can never be peace in the middle east without talking to Hamas. The main aggressors in that dispute, however, is the Israeli state who routinely break international law with impunity. Corbyn is a man of peace you fucking moron.

        trev

        December 14, 2019 at 11:42 am

      • @ trev

        Where did I say that Corbyn was a man of violence or wasn’t a man of peace, dick? The point I was trying to make is that Corbyn is a man of poor judgement and was judged by many by the friends that he kept and shared platforms with championing their causes. Fraternising with and sympathising with the causes of the likes of Hesbola, Hamas, Irish Republican Army and Ulster paramilitaries isn’t a good look. Birds of a feather and all that. Corbyn’s closet is full of skeletons gathered over the years and the ghosts of his past were one of the many nails which finally secured the lid of his coffin. Corbyn is a man devoid of grace and good sense.

        Shell

        December 14, 2019 at 2:36 pm

  48. I bet the jokeshop Gestapo are made up the b@stard squad are back in so they can carry on with the bullying, harassment, sanctions etc….. bet the nasty f*ckers are enjoying spending their sanction bonuses this chrimbo,while the scum are tucking in to marks and sparks finest the poor sods they had sanctioned are nibbling on bread and jam or worse, dossing in a shop doorway.

    Tigerlily

    December 13, 2019 at 2:34 pm

  49. Them lot probably voted tory so they can carry on with the sinister sanctions regime & brutal bullying of the unemployed, they have never had so much fun in their lives!

    Violet

    December 13, 2019 at 2:56 pm

  50. Well there’s no two ways about it Labour’s performance in the general election was much worse than anybody could have expected: in fact it’s the worst electoral performance for Labour ever bar the 1931 general election when Labour lost over 200 seats, even Michael Foot did better in 1983 than Jeremy Corbyn did yesterday. I never believed that Jeremy Corbyn could lead Labour to victory but hoped against hope for another hung parliament which would curb Tory excesses and possibly eventually lead to a people’s vote.

    Anyway, there you go.

    Hopefully Labour will learn some lessons from this debacle and do better next time although in my heart I doubt it. It will probably take years or even decades for the party to unite behind a popular leader who can garner enough support from outside the party to take Labour into office. The pity of it is that all the people who have suffered under the Tories for the last nine nearly ten years will continue to suffer and grow in numbers indefinitely because of Labour’s failure and blaming the general population for failing to win their confidence and support isn’t going to help matters.

    The Conservative party under Boris Johnson will now be unstoppable for four or five years.

    Jime

    December 13, 2019 at 3:24 pm

  51. Labour are seriously screwed after this result. And will be for years to come. It won’t be easy to overturn such a large majority. And it gives Johnson a free hand to ram whatever he likes through parliament.
    It is going to take a strong, decisive leader to rebuild Labour. And this has got to be based on centre-ground politics. All this hard-left communist stuff has got to go.

    Tom Sutton

    December 13, 2019 at 5:16 pm

    • @Tom Sutton – This has been a huge rejection for Labour by the working-class. It’s not middle-class voters who have done this. It is the mass working-class that has put two fingers up to Labour and its policies. It says something for just how bad Labour have been, when their own people would rather vote for Eton’s finest.

      John Blackmore

      December 13, 2019 at 5:33 pm

      • @ John Blackmore

        That’s because they voted on one issue alone, i.e. Brexit, in the mistaken belief that Boris will deliver and everything will be alright.

        trev

        December 13, 2019 at 6:23 pm

    • @ Tom Sutton

      What “Communist stuff”? Nationalized Utilities, Communication and Transport were traditional Labour values that many of us happily grew up with under Harold Wilson, nothing extreme about any of that, it’s exactly what most Socialists want to see in a Labour manifesto. Or perhaps you’re not a Socialist? Which begs the question why are you in the Labour party?

      trev

      December 13, 2019 at 6:18 pm

  52. Even @trev can no longer defend Jeremy Corbyn or his policies. No wonder Tom Watson jumped ship early on. In many ways the defeat of Labour is like Mutiny On The Bounty. Now is the time for Corbyn & McDonnell to be put in the longboat with a compass and some supplies. Leaving the good ship Labour Party to sail on without them.

    Charles F.

    December 13, 2019 at 5:22 pm

    • @ Charles F.

      Oh but I DO still defend Jeremy Corbyn and his wonderful policies. An honest, kind, thoughtful man of integrity, demonized, marginalized, smeared and slandered by the Rightwing and the mainstream media with the help of British Intelligence and probably Mossad too in a sustained propaganda campaign against him. Betrayed by a gullible, Reactionary, Politically illiterate Proletariat who had been swayed by the Racism and Xenophobia of the Brexiteers.

      trev

      December 13, 2019 at 6:11 pm

      • Andrew Coates

        December 13, 2019 at 6:17 pm

    • @Charles F. – And how would Corbyn decide which compass heading to use, or which land to make for ?
      The longboat would just be going round in circles until they ran out of supplies.

      Jack D.

      December 13, 2019 at 6:35 pm

  53. Corbynism died the minute Labour lost the election. Now there is only one hope, one way forward.
    A new type of Labour, taking the centre-ground. New Labour 2 – The Return Of Labour

    New Labour 2

    December 13, 2019 at 6:38 pm

    • @ New Labour 2

      There is, and never has been, any such thing as “Corbynism”, there is only Socialism, and that’s what the Labour party is, a Socialist party. New Labour was not Socialist, it was a neoliberal continuation of Thatcher’s ideology and is what has lead to the position in which we now find ourselves, a massive divide of wealth, a punitive Social Security system with no safety net, foodbanks, child poverty, foreign-owned Utilities and the very real prospect of a Privatized NHS, in short the dismantling of the Welfare State.

      trev

      December 13, 2019 at 6:51 pm

  54. Like the character Tony in ‘The Ragman’s Daughter’ Labour will learn nowt. They are doomed to repeat past mistakes.

    Ms Smith

    December 13, 2019 at 7:47 pm

    • Ms Smith,

      I would suggest that it is the electorate who never learn and repeat their mistakes, Working Class voted Tory, put Thatcher in power, now Boris Johnson. History repeating itself.

      trev

      December 13, 2019 at 7:52 pm

    • @Mrs Smith – Aye, happen they will at that.

      George

      December 13, 2019 at 9:23 pm

  55. well when we leave the eu the esf fund will also end and that should be the final nail in most of the providers coffins.

    superted

    December 13, 2019 at 7:48 pm

    • Brexit in whatever form it takes on 31 January 2020 should certainly put the final nail name these providers’ coffins. Let’s get Brexit done! And get these providers put out of business once and for all. No ifs, no buts!

      Jacob Rees Mogg

      December 13, 2019 at 8:17 pm

    • Not if Boris keeps his word to pay for such schemes from central government.

      Tim

      December 14, 2019 at 8:50 am

      • @ Tim

        “if Boris keeps his word..” LOL , you know that’s not a probability. Boris won’t keep his word on anything, “oven-ready” or not.

        trev

        December 14, 2019 at 10:27 am

    • @superted – We look forward to helping you into employment this year Superted.

      T.Coffey

      December 14, 2019 at 12:18 pm

  56. Labour took for granted, deserted and betrayed their core vote. The have made life immeasurably more difficult for white working-class people. Ordinary people just trying to get on in life. Corbyn and Co. need to put down their dusty tomes and get out in the REAL world. Labour thoroughly deserved what they got. Hell mend them.

    Working-Class Lass

    December 13, 2019 at 8:14 pm

    • @ Working Class Lass

      But Corbyn and Co. were out meeting the public throughout the campaign, it was the Tories who went into hiding, Boris quite literally hid in a fridge! Other Tory MPs failed to attend hustings and hid themselves away to avoid tricky questions. All in all quite the opposite of what you are claiming.

      trev

      December 13, 2019 at 8:21 pm

    • @Working Class Lass: Very true lass. Nowt but nonsense from Corbyn and his London friends. And now they are paid out for it.

      John T.

      December 13, 2019 at 9:26 pm

      • @ John T

        Didn’t you read my reply directly above yours? Or am I talking to the fucking wall? Corbyn was out and about campaigning all over the country, meeting people at grassroots level, whilst the Tories were hiding. Do you understand English?

        trev

        December 13, 2019 at 9:37 pm

      • @ trev – You’ll not change my mind laddie. And we’ll not be voting for these London socialists.

        John T.

        December 13, 2019 at 11:37 pm

  57. trev

    December 13, 2019 at 9:32 pm

  58. According to pretty much everybody that campaigned Labour lost because people really disliked Corbyn and didn’t understand Labour’s position as per Brexit. Although the Labour manifesto offered a land of milk and honey people didn’t believe that Corbyn and crew could make the lion’s share of it happen and thought that a majority of the document was well-meaning fantasy dreamed up by people too inexpert to make any of it real. With a better and much more clever, charismatic and competent leader with a straightforward and sensible attitude to Brexit Labour would have done very much better.

    How the heck can any political leader go into an election which has been called in order to decide the biggest issue facing the country claiming that he was neutral and refusing to take a position? What the hell kind of leadership is that? U.S. president Harry S. Truman had a sign on his desk which read “The buck stops here” meaning that for a political leader the responsibility for decisions and their consequences cannot and should not be shirked or passed to someone else and yet Corbyn abrogated all responsibility in respect to Brexit and now denies any personal responsibility for Labour’s crushing defeat not even having the sensitivity, courage and decency to apologise to the 59 of his own MPs who lost their seats and for dropping millions of struggling people back into the sh1t to suffer five more years of misery and suffering during a Boris Johnson led right-wing Tory parliament.

    This is a shameless and unrepentant individual absolutely and utterly unfit to lead.

    Shell

    December 14, 2019 at 8:48 am

    • @Shell – I absolutely agree, Jeremy Corbyn faces a heavy personal responsibility for what has been one of the worst defeats in Labour Party history. That dreadful inflexible, stubborn attitude of his. Born out of years as a protest politician who voted 500 times against his own party ! His lack of political awareness. His indecisive ‘lead from behind’ attitude. The hopeless Labour Party position on Brexit. A man whose own limitations lead him and the party to disaster.

      Tom Sutton

      December 14, 2019 at 12:16 pm

      • @Tom Sutton, Too right Tom. This has got to mean some proper changes. Not a whitewash. You didn’t mention anti-Semitism. That didn’t do the party any good either.

        Frank Harper

        December 14, 2019 at 12:22 pm

      • @ Frank Harper

        When you say “antisemitism” I think you must mean the smear campaign of false allegations and accusations of antisemitism by the Rightwing designed to undermine Corbyn.

        trev

        December 14, 2019 at 2:34 pm

  59. Why do Labour keep doing this ? Miliband, Kinnock, now Corbyn. Why has Labour always got to have the unpopular leader ? The unlikely Prime Minister ?

    Garry Brown

    December 14, 2019 at 12:25 pm

    • @ Garry Brown – Very good point Garry. I don’t want to be superficial here, and being Labour leader is not like casting for James Bond. But even so… Labour is going to need a real leader to get out of this mess.
      Someone who looks the part. Can act the part. Can speak the part. And has a certain amount of ruthlessness if necessary. Someone up to date, at ease with the media. Someone who can think on their feet, and deal with a difficult interview or a tricky situation.

      Jeff Smith

      December 14, 2019 at 4:11 pm

      • Someone who will follow Rothschilds orders like a puppet on a string.

        Violet

        December 14, 2019 at 6:24 pm

      • “Rothschild’s orders” ? Come on ‘Violet’, you know better than to resort to antisemitic conspiracy theories. By saying things like that you are just giving ammunition to the anti-Left.

        trev

        December 14, 2019 at 6:43 pm

  60. London streets erupt with protests over murdering tory scum back in power.

    Violet

    December 14, 2019 at 1:24 pm

    • What’s the point of protesting now mate, when 70% of the working-class voted Tory ?

      Jack Reid

      December 14, 2019 at 4:20 pm

    • Trev I was not being anti semitic.

      Violet

      December 14, 2019 at 6:56 pm

      • Apologies if that’s the case, but it’s just that such comments about the Rothschilds does feed into that old myth about ‘The Jews’ controlling the world, a theory oft repeated by the Far Right neo-Nazis and lunatics like the White Supremacists, and as Socialists we certainly do not wish to lend any credence to such nutjobs.

        trev

        December 14, 2019 at 7:07 pm

      • Labour or Tory,it doesn’t matter which one is in, they both have their strings pulled by Rothschild!

        Tigerlily

        December 14, 2019 at 7:26 pm

      • That’s a conspiracy theory with antisemitic undertones. There are many organizations that manage global finance and wield both power and influence; the IMF, WTO, World Bank, Bank of England, Federal Reserve, Bilderberg Group, Institute for Statecraft, etc.

        trev

        December 14, 2019 at 7:51 pm

      • This victimisation of sections of society by the extream right wing has been widespread.The thug’s don’t discriminate.This attack in north london caught my eye in the Metro.This is extreamly worrying and should be treated as so.

        Rabbi thrown to ground and attacked by men shouting ‘kill the Jews’ in north London

        https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/rabbi-assaulted-london-clapton-common-a4302321.html

        The Tories have been playing a dangerous game,they have made the country unsafe for a large section’s of people.It’s nothing but a remoddled National Front instead of being purged from society to a minority that thankfully never took hold in mainland Europe in any numbers,its taking hold in the UK.It incourages crime against people and much of this is driven through envy and a lack of understanding.

        I never forgot the look on a Jewish Rabbi some time ago while sitting outside the Jobcentre.They say a picture can say a thousand words’ as can a facial expression.

        I personnaly don’t think the surprise vote will make any difference to some areas’ but thats my opinion.

        ken

        December 14, 2019 at 8:57 pm

  61. trev

    December 14, 2019 at 3:15 pm

  62. @trev – I personally feel that @trev should be given the Jeremy Corbyn Award for loyalty in the face of overwhelming odds.

    Tony Carter

    December 14, 2019 at 4:14 pm

  63. This morning by courierwe received a brand new router and dongle. Apparently they were manufactured (in China) in anticipation of Corbyn winning the election and this free broadband rolling out. Now we are left with a plastic bookend. At least it has come in handy as a doorstop for when the cat comes in and out one of the rooms.

    The Black Family

    December 14, 2019 at 8:15 pm

    • Access to the latest technology will be limited according to personal affluence, the Tories will see to that. The same will go for healthcare and medical treatment. But if that’s what you all voted for then who am I to argue?

      trev

      December 14, 2019 at 8:21 pm

  64. Trevor, read The Committee of 300 by John Coleman, it will absolutely open your eyes!

    Tigerlily

    December 14, 2019 at 8:31 pm

    • This needs updated. Coleman is talking about the ‘personal computer-card’ coming in and ‘taking away our freedoms’ in 1993! He is still talking about George Bush!

      rev

      December 14, 2019 at 9:24 pm

      • Another good book, and one that Komrade Koates recommends 😀 is ‘The Strange Death of Europe’ by Douglas Murray one of Komrade Koates favourite authors. The book is freely available on the internet as a file share.

        D Muee

        December 14, 2019 at 9:32 pm

    • I’ve never read it but judging by the excerpts online Coleman comes across as another Alex Jones screwball. He’s homophobic,opposed to gender equality, hates Socialism, and is totally paranoid.

      trev

      December 14, 2019 at 10:05 pm

      • What about the waspi men having to work an extra five years than women? Didn’t hear you complaining about ‘gender inequality’ then? Thankfully, your ‘socialist’ views don’t chime with the electorate and is why Labour we wiped out – and deservedly so!

        Stanley Johnson

        December 15, 2019 at 9:25 am

      • @ Stanley Johnson

        I’ve said all along that State Pension age should be 60 for both men and women. And if you tragically believe that you are going to be better off under the Tories then good luck to you, but you are going to be in for a big shock when the reality of Emperor Boris kicks in.

        trev

        December 15, 2019 at 11:48 am

      • PS And now Boris is going to decriminalise non-payment of the ‘TV Licence’. That’s an extra £160 in the pocket of every household. That’s more like it. The BBC can go to Hell!

        Stanley Johnson

        December 15, 2019 at 9:28 am

      • So no more monthly threat-o-gram to light the fire with. We will have to buy a box of matches instead. TVL reduced to a begging letter: “Your money helps the BBC produce world-class propaganda”

        PS We do not require a ‘TV Licence’

        TV Licence Free

        December 15, 2019 at 9:37 am

      • People will still pay it just as people pay it at present even though TVL has no more ‘powers’ 😀 than a doorstep salesperson.

        Aerial

        December 15, 2019 at 9:54 am

  65. Jeremy Corbyn was most ‘smeared and vilified’ politician ever but his ideology will live on, his sons say

    In a message posted on Twitter by Tommy Corbyn with his brothers, Seb and Benjamin, they defended their father as “honest, humble and good-natured” but forced to endure “the most despicable attacks filled with hatred”.

    “He took on an entire establishment. This meant the attacks from all sides intensified and became even more poisonous while he was leader. We’ve never known a politician to be smeared and vilified so much,” they said.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-next-leader-sons-general-election-a9246756.html

    xclausx

    December 15, 2019 at 9:34 am

      • Maybe it is because ‘Evil Santa’ kept telling lies and the electorate saw through him.

        For example, ‘Repayment of the pension money stolen from 1950s women’. How many times do we need to knock this LIE on the head?

        Annunziata Rees - Mogg

        December 15, 2019 at 12:13 pm

      • There was nothing stolen from anyone. Absolute rubbish! But yet, you, trev will persist peddling this untruth. Do you STILL not understand why Labour lost the election?

        Annunziata Rees - Mogg

        December 15, 2019 at 12:15 pm

      • They lost for one reason; Brexit, pure and simple. Because the majority of the electorate voted on that one issue alone in the misguided belief that Boris can deliver, which is a big lie. It will be at least 2021 before Boris’s “oven-ready” Brexit is passed, and even then it will be a disastrous deal for the British people, no Human Rights, no Workers Rights, mass redundancies, food shortages, and a Privatized NHS. That’s what you gullible fools have voted for. No State Pension, ever, for anyone. A Brexit deal that benefits no one but the rich who make their living from speculating on stocks, shares and investment portfolios. A dysfunctional punitive Social Security system and foodbanks forever. All overseen and implemented under Martial Law. The UK will fall apart, Scotland will go independent. The country is up shit creek without a paddle. We are all fucked.

        trev

        December 15, 2019 at 12:34 pm

      • “Labour’s policy was actually to maintain the inheritance tax threshold at £325,000, but scrap an additional property allowance, meaning the absolute maximum extra inheritance tax anyone would have had to have paid was £40,000, but only on inheritances of over £425,000.”

        Was off work the other week and ended up watching ‘Homes Under the Hammer’. There was a one bed-roomed ex-council terraced house under the hammer. The auctioneer opened the bidding at £1 million by saying: “You ain’t gonna get a garden shed in London for less than a million nicker.” It sold for £1,250,000. And it would still take another £200,000 to fix up. But with an expected rental income of £5,000 a month. For a one bed-roomed terrace house Putney! Imagine it had been in Kensington & Chelsea, Westminster or Swiss Cottage. It looked as if someone had been sat in it since the 1970s and decided to cash in. The starting price for property in the South East is £500,000 so McDonnell’s ‘allowances’ aren’t as generous as the first appear.

        Homes Under the Hammer

        December 15, 2019 at 12:33 pm

      • I can’t get my head round the Housing market, it’s insane. I grew up in a Council house but my parents never bought it, houses on that estate (in Yorkshire) are now valued at £100K. The first house I bought was in 1985, a one-up one-down 200yr old cottage in a rural village close to motorway links, paid £6000 for it, now probably valued at £200K. Where’s it all going to end? Rents are insane now too. I currently live in Private rent, a one bedroom flat, a bit grotty, hasn’t been decorated in donkeys years, mouldy walls in the bedroom, virtually no heating, no proper bathroom, in a crime-ridden area where shootings have become the norm, and rent is £80 p/w, but I shudder to think how much it would be for the same flat in Southern England. I don’t know what the answer is. Luckily I’ve realistically only got about another 10 – 15 yrs left to live so it’s not my problem for much longer. Pity the younger generations.

        trev

        December 15, 2019 at 12:51 pm

  66. In a letter to the Times Corbyn remain defiant writing: “I refuse to take any responsibility for Labour’s defeat. I will not apologise the something that I played no part in. The electorate much solely shoulder the blame for making a bad decision.”

    A Smear

    December 15, 2019 at 9:41 am

    • How is this any different to paying for a Trussell Trust©™® franchise? Foodbanks are big business these days. You can’t blame a Tory MP for cashing in.

      Prunella

      December 15, 2019 at 9:50 am

  67. In a letter to the Times Corbyn remains defiant writing: “I refuse to take any responsibility for Labour’s defeat. I will not apologise for something that I played no part in. The electorate must solely shoulder the blame for making a bad decision.”

    A Smear

    December 15, 2019 at 9:43 am

  68. A Tory majority of this size could take 20 years to overcome. It would need a Labour Messiah, like Tony Blair in ’97. And the danger for Labour here is if Johnson can actually make a success of Brexit.

    Alan Turner

    December 15, 2019 at 12:25 pm

    • But Blair wasn’t a Socialist, he was a neoliberal who continued what Thatcher started and laid the foundations for what is to come under Boris Johnson. Corbyn was the “Labour Messiah” we had been waiting for, but the people didn’t recognise him.

      trev

      December 15, 2019 at 12:39 pm

      • @trev- Come off it Trev, Corbyn was a protest politician who accidentally ended up as leader. His miserable performance, and stubborn reluctance to change, have ended in disaster. As @Alan turner says, it will take years for Labour to come back from this. And Blair certainly was a socialist, just a different kind. The kind that wins 3 elections.

        Tom Sutton

        December 15, 2019 at 12:49 pm

  69. Momentum must be disbanded, and the whole Corbynite apparatus dismantled. A clean break – this is the only way forward now for Labour. #Progress

    Damian J.

    December 15, 2019 at 12:37 pm

  70. @ When would say the UK had the last truly socialist government? If you exclude Blair the next contender is Jim Callaghan who left office back in 1979! 40 years ago! Keir Hardie and Nye Bevan were definitely socialists, proper socialists, some of the former Tory Prime Ministers have been more ‘socialist’ than what flies for ‘socialist’ these days. Don’t think that Momentum crap was around in Keir Hardie or Nye Bevan’s time either. They would have given them short shrift.

    Faith Bangkotse

    December 15, 2019 at 12:50 pm

    • When would say the UK had the last truly socialist government? That’s for you, trev?

      Faith Bangkotse

      December 15, 2019 at 12:51 pm

      • @ Faith

        Yes probably Callaghan, though when I was a kid it was Wilson, those were the good times I remember, life was better then. The toilet was outside in the yard, but rents were affordable, jobs plentiful, and no such thing as foodbanks, cheap bus/train fares, powerful Unions, proper Schools, affordable Utilities, everything was better.

        trev

        December 15, 2019 at 12:57 pm

      • Harold Wilson used to joke about the “10 bob (50p) loaf”. You can still buy a loaf for less than 10 bob. Tastes like soggy cardboard, but still. All thanks to the Chorleywood production process 😉 Cheap, tasteless loaves.

        Chorley Wood

        December 15, 2019 at 1:14 pm

  71. Communism is not an attractive philosophy to the British People. Nor is anti-semitism.

    Gordon Castlemain

    December 15, 2019 at 12:52 pm

    • Grow up Gordon.

      trev

      December 15, 2019 at 1:00 pm

      • @trev – This from a man who thinks he died in ancient Egypt, and believes in the Second Coming ?
        Corbyn’s brand of ‘socialism’ looks very similar to communism . And as for anti-semitism, this is still a problem in the party.

        Gordon Castlemain

        December 15, 2019 at 1:08 pm

      • Re-Nationalization of essential services is a Socialist principle, one that most people agreed with but were swayed by Boris’s Brexit nonsense. There is more antisemitism and racism as a whole in the Conservative party than within Labour. As for my personal Spiritual /Religious views and beliefs I don’t expect anyone else to agree or believe me, but that’s ok because we live in a Religiously tolerant Society.

        trev

        December 15, 2019 at 1:27 pm

      • There is no doubt that Brexit played a large part in the election. It was the stalemate in Parliament that brought it on in the first place. So now we have had our Second Referendum/Peoples’ Vote/Confirmatory Vote. Isn’t that what you were in favour of, trev?

        Sunita

        December 15, 2019 at 1:37 pm

      • It may surprise you Sunita but I have no definitive opinion on Brexit, I can see pros and cons on both sides and I didn’t even vote in the Brexit referendum because I thought it was a ridiculous concept asking people to make such a complex decision reduced to a basic yes/no. But if we are going to leave the EU then we need to do so under the favourable terms & conditions that will cause the least amount of harm to the UK, not rushed through as Boris’s half-baked “oven -ready” deal will be. I aso think it would be detrimental to have a hard border in Ireland, but then again I agree with the Republican cause of a united Ireland free from British control or interference.

        trev

        December 15, 2019 at 2:28 pm

      • @trev – No, it is not okay for people to go on believing superstitious nonsense in the 21st Century.

        Paul S.

        December 15, 2019 at 1:53 pm

      • @ trev, you are confusing ‘instant’ with ‘oven-ready’. We bought an ‘oven-ready’ baked potato the other day. We still had to bake it in the oven for 45 minutes. Boris is not talking about instant coffee or a microwave meal here.

        The Spud Family

        December 15, 2019 at 2:37 pm

      • @ Paul s.

        I think you’ll find that it is perfectly acceptable in a tolerant society for people to follow the Religious and Spiritual beliefs of their choice and to practice their Religion free from persecution or discrimination. Religious intolerance is not ok.

        trev

        December 15, 2019 at 2:44 pm

      • Boris deal is not even parboiled (partly boiled), Just ready to be popped into the oven and left to simmer at Gas Mark 4 for goodness knows how long.

        Mary Berry

        December 16, 2019 at 12:04 pm

  72. It would make a good film really, The Last Corbynite. Where a secret group of left-wingers, known as the Red Wall, manage to steal a nuclear device and hold the country to ransom unless they elect Jeremy Corbyn.

    Never Say Corbyn Again

    December 15, 2019 at 12:59 pm

  73. Ye sassenach need nae hink we ur stayin’ in yer union. Ah woods raither eat a mooldy haggis wi’ maggots fallin’ roarin’ fu’. Wee Nicky will leid us it tae th’ trysted lain.

    Angus McDonald

    December 15, 2019 at 1:34 pm

    • Up the close and down the stair,

      In the house with Burke and Hare.

      Burke’s the butcher, Hare’s the thief

      Knox, the man who buys the beef.

      Burke & Hare

      December 15, 2019 at 3:32 pm

  74. @Trev- You must face facts, and give up your support for Jeremy Corbyn. It’s no good clinging on in this ridiculous way. It’s not doing you any good, and it’s not doing the party any good. Time to let go.

    David Moreton

    December 15, 2019 at 1:49 pm

    • @ David Moreton

      I am simply devoted to truth, hence I have been defending Mr. Corbyn against the gross untruths, lies, smears and misrepresentations being peddled by many commenters on this blog. I fully realize that the Corbyn era of Labour is now over, but I will never accept anything less than the Socialist principles that he embodied and the excellent policies he offered. Time for a new leader with the exact same principles.

      trev

      December 15, 2019 at 2:35 pm

      • ‘Time for a new leader with the exact same principles’ Holy smoke! Trev, if that is to be the case can you not see why Labour WILL lose the next election..

        Steph

        December 15, 2019 at 2:41 pm

      • Trev, why are you stuck in denial that Corbyn or a Corbyn clone is NEVER going to win a UK General Election?

        Steph

        December 15, 2019 at 2:43 pm

      • @ Steph

        I can’t speak for other people, they must vote as they see fit. I can only vote as my own principles and ideals allow. If it’s New Labour or Blue Labour then it doesn’t get my vote, simple as that. I was only able to return to voting Labour because Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell finally turned the party into something I could support.

        trev

        December 15, 2019 at 2:50 pm

      • You are either a deluded halfwit or an agent provocateur. Which is it?

        HorstWessel

        December 19, 2019 at 6:52 am

  75. For Corbyn supporters is must be galling, but, an old right-wing Etonian was more in tune with the common man and woman, than that leftie from Islington.

    You have to laugh at that. Which one was more arrogant and out of touch? We know the answer to that one now.

    S Johnson

    December 15, 2019 at 2:47 pm

    • Unbelievable. You actually think that an Upper Class multi-millionaire fascist is going to look after the interests of the common man? People may have made their decision but they will surely live to regret it!

      trev

      December 15, 2019 at 2:57 pm

      • @trev – Or will they ? Boris is quite crafty enough to play the One Nation Conservative, if he thinks there is any political mileage in it.

        Hilary

        December 15, 2019 at 4:52 pm

      • @ Hilary

        Boris is lying through his teeth and eventually everyone will realize that when they are surrounded by the shattered remnants of their lives and Society has fallen apart at the seams, not to mention that the NHS will be Privatized and any disastrous Brexit deal he manages to push through will be reinforced by the imposition of Martial Law. As soon as Boris puts troops on our streets, and they are on standby right now, then it’s all over for the Tories, except there won’t be any elections as Parliament will be suspended and Emperor Boris will have set his Dictatorship in place, as is laid out on page 48 of the Tory manifesto.

        trev

        December 15, 2019 at 5:10 pm

      • @trev- You actually think you were eaten by a crocodile in Ancient Egypt, 5000 years ago ?

        Jasper

        December 15, 2019 at 4:55 pm

      • @ Jasper

        Nope. It was 3,330 years ago. And killed by it, not eaten.

        trev

        December 15, 2019 at 5:15 pm

      • I didn’t but a lot of people thought that Bojo was a better bet than Jezza for PM hence the disaster. On the doorstep when I was knocking on doors a majority of people liked a lot of Labour policies but really couldn’t stand Jeremy Corbyn and didn’t see him as fit to lead the country. Oddly even though more people voted for remain parties than leave parties (Conservatives, UKIP, Brexit party etc) BoJo ended up with an 80 seat majority because of our quirky voting system. My bet is that the Tories will try to alter the constituency boundaries to exploit this quirkiness and tilt it in their favour, in the next parliament, to make it even harder for Labour to win power.

        Coldwater

        December 15, 2019 at 6:04 pm

      • Yep the Tories have previous form when it comes to Gerrymandering.

        trev

        December 15, 2019 at 6:10 pm

    • Dead in a ditch the conservative’s don’t care.

      ken

      December 15, 2019 at 7:46 pm

  76. On the bright side, if Johnson and his Tories want to hold on to “working class” votes in the north, they will more than likely HAVE to act to improve universal credit, build some social housing, reduce poverty and particularly child poverty and see the number of food bank referrals fall over the coming parliament. Oddly the fallout from Labour’s historic and catastrophic recent losses (and Conservative gains) will tend to pull the Tories back towards the centre of politics somewhat: the gravity of the black hole created by Labour’s recent crushing defeat, pulling the Tories back towards the centre and humanity, will turn out to be the only positive outcome for us to celebrate as we breakfast powerlessly amongst the ruins for the next five years.

    Ingram

    December 15, 2019 at 3:56 pm

    • That sounds good in theory Ingram but the Tories don’t give a shit about poverty, foodbanks and Universal Credit. We have a Prime Minister who thinks that inequality is a desirable thing. Their whole ideology is based upon the assumption that suffering, misery and hardship are good for people.

      trev

      December 15, 2019 at 4:07 pm

    • Indeed, if BoJo gives the unemployed a bloody good beasting or anything equally dastardly he will lose our vote 😀 A bit of tinkering with universal credit, etc. and he will have stolen Corbyn’s thunder. The far-right of the Tory party appear to have been kicked into touch? Haven’t heard a peep from Jacob Rees-Mogg for ages. Is he still alive.

      Merthyr Tydfill

      December 15, 2019 at 4:20 pm

  77. Lisa Nandy is a sensible and down to earth woman who would make a much better leader of the Labour party than Jezza ever was. If she stands I will be voting for her when the time comes as a member of the Labour party. Besides Jeremy Corbyn going back to his allotment I like to see many of the people around him also step away from the next shadow cabinet, e.g., Diane Abbott, Angela Rayner, Andrew Gwynne etc., who also seem barely competent, are disliked by the public and unable to cut the mustard. What we want now is a return to normality where well-adjusted centrist politicians plot an evolutionary rather than a revolutionary course designed to improve the lives and lot of all British people, most especially those who are needy, struggling and forced to swim against the current.

    This one’s for Lisa.

    Coldwater

    December 15, 2019 at 4:17 pm

    • Blundering arithmetically-challenged Diane Abbott would have been Home Secretary in a Corbyn government!

      Abbie Cuss

      December 15, 2019 at 4:26 pm

      • @ Abbie Cuss

        Whereas blundering buffoon Boris Johnson is now the elected Prime Minister.

        trev

        December 15, 2019 at 10:48 pm

      • trev, Dianne Abbott is a racist. She hates white people. She hates this country and everything it represents although she has done very well out of it. And being the hypocrite that she is, like many in the Labour Party and the privately-educated Corbyn, she wants to abolish private schools despite having sent her own kids to one. Dianne Abbott would have been a disaster as Home Secretary.

        Meg

        December 16, 2019 at 10:15 am

      • Dianne Abbott is a fraud. All her life she has attacked and wanted to abolish private education – still does – and yet she sent her own son to a private fee-paying school saying that she had to do so in order to stop him joining a “gang”. How pathetic and weak is that?

        Larry

        December 16, 2019 at 11:19 am

    • @Coldwater – It doesn’t really matter, Labour are stuffed for the next 5-10 years. If Johnson can make a go of Brexit, pretend to be the saviour of the NHS, help the poor and homeless. And get away with bullshitting all this. Have people believing in a caring, Conservative Prime Minister. Labour are in real trouble. Nothing more than a larger version of the LibDems . Another protest party with no hope of government.

      Tony Stafford

      December 15, 2019 at 4:42 pm

      • @ Tony Stafford

        But Boris can’t or won’t deliver on Brexit, at best he will push through a deal that is disastrous for the country but makes a fortune for the Hedge Fund managers who are backing him, and it will take him over a year to even do that. As for Boris being the “Saviour of the NHS”, you must be deluded, he wants to Privatize it! People will coming flocking back to Labour in droves long before the five years are up.

        trev

        December 15, 2019 at 5:01 pm

  78. @trev- His hopeless delusions about Corbyn, and desire for another Corbyn Clone, will condemn the Labour Party to oblivion. He can’t see this, and he won’t see it. The Labour Party must forget Corbyn.
    The name of Corbyn must not be spoken, ever again.

    Political Seer

    December 15, 2019 at 4:32 pm

  79. Labour’s only real hope is if Boris does something really ‘bad’, like, you know, burning a £50 in front of a beggar, trashing a restaurant, having sex with a pig…

    Felicity Feelgood

    December 15, 2019 at 5:05 pm

  80. The smear campaign against Jeremy Corbyn:

    View at Medium.com

    trev

    December 15, 2019 at 10:44 pm

    • Why is the link not visible?

      View at Medium.com

      trev

      December 15, 2019 at 10:52 pm

    • @trev- The smear campaign only worked because of Corbyn’s poor leadership. And his flat refusal to give the leadership over to another candidate with a better chance of winning the election.

      Rob

      December 16, 2019 at 11:31 am

      • I don’t think his leadership was poor overall, just lacking clarity /commitment over Brexit and that’s what people voted on, but being the most demonized politician in British history certainly didn’t help either, and remember it wasn’t only the Rightwing media but most of the mainstream media but more worryingly British Intelligence had a part in it, and that should be a cause for concern for everyone.

        trev

        December 16, 2019 at 12:03 pm

      • Indeed, trev. The only thing the Labour leadership lacked was leadership.

        Diane

        December 16, 2019 at 12:06 pm

      • Probably why Diane Abbott want to disband the security services.

        Spooks

        December 16, 2019 at 12:09 pm

  81. Labour have won only THREE elections in the last FIFTY YEARS and all were won under Tony Blair’s leadership. EVERY other election was won by the Conservatives. Labour has just suffered the worst defeat in a general election for EIGHTY FOUR years standing against Tory party led by an habitual and proven liar of low character which for nine years has pauperised the poor, ruined the welfare state, increased poverty and suffering, screwed the NHS and presided over declining living standards throughout that period for millions. The Tory party couldn’t have behaved worse and the fact that Labour couldn’t beat them show a massive failure on Labour’s part with Labour LOSING the election, for all sorts of reasons, rather than the Tories winning it by providing good government.

    When Labour gets decimated in its own heartlands the fault is Labour’s and no-one else’s.

    In the face of all this evidence to the contrary carrying on believing that more of the Momentum/Corbyn project will deliver a majoritarian Labour government at any point in the future is INSANE. In order to win the party MUST move back towards the centre of politics and develop sensible, workable policies which appeal to the many rather than the few, and, more than anything else, elect an excellent and capable leader who will surround himself/herself with excellent and capable people whose appeal reaches out to the masses rather than the left-wing of the Labour party membership alone.

    Doing so disastrously against so false and foul an opponent should make people wake up and take notice.

    My greatest fear is that it won’t and that Labour will end up side-lined, wither and die.

    And make no mistake this really could happen.

    Coldwater

    December 16, 2019 at 8:26 am

    • Here in France the French Labour Party ended up side-lined, withered and die The French Labour Party is no more.

      Chanel

      December 16, 2019 at 9:46 am

    • Even after Labour lost the same Momentum/Woke clowns were out waving their recycled ‘no to isla****mophobia, no to racism, open the borders, imm*********igrants, and re************8fugees welcome’ placards. To the electorate up and down the country this is what Labour and Corbyn is and represent. They will have felt that their decision to show Labour the door was vindicated. These faux-lefty, middle-class, champagne socialists, feminists with their brightly-coloured, hair, with dreadlocks, the wet lettuce antifa, middle-class students from well off backgrounds, trustafarians who will all end up voting Tory by the time they are 40 make the put upon white working-class of this country sick to the very pits of their stomach. Labour and Corbyn make the white working-class, the people who Momentum, Labour and Corbyn couldn’t give a flying fig about sick to the pits of their stomach. Labour is no longer the party of the white working-class. It is a fringe lunatic party. Electing these clowns into office would have been a disaster for this country. And you wonder why Labour lost the election.

      Whitehaven

      December 16, 2019 at 10:07 am

      • Same nutjobs you see in ‘Cereal Killer’ ponying up £ 25 nicker for a bowl of bleeding cornflakes.

        Londoner

        December 16, 2019 at 10:22 am

      • The robbing bar stewards charge you an extra five for Frosties.

        Toni

        December 16, 2019 at 11:00 am

      • @Whitehaven – How very true, and as my dear Mama says, at least the socialists are not in charge of the railways.

        Cordelia Hartley -Brown

        December 16, 2019 at 4:51 pm

    • @ Coldwater

      The Establishment were never going to permit a Leftwing Socialist government, hence the propaganda campaign that duped the gullible electorate.

      trev

      December 16, 2019 at 10:17 am

      • @ trev

        No, mate, it can’t be put down to the media or establishment. Every single Labour leader and most of the upper echelons of the Labour party are attacked and/or mocked and made fun of by the right-wing press; this was certainly the case with Tony Blair and yet with his spotless past and centrist policies he led the party to THREE consecutive general election wins.

        Labour offered a selection of people and an agenda that was comprehensively rejected last week and based on what I heard with my own ears on the doorstep showed me that our crushing defeat can be pretty much blamed wholly on quality, competence and trustworthiness of Labour personnel. Overwhelmingly Jeremy Corbyn was hugely unpopular and not seen as a fit, accomplished or competent leader, with most of the people around him likewise viewed as sub-standard and very likely to do a bad if not terrible job in office. This put the mockers on all of the good things featured in Labour’s rather random manifesto, which made wild fantastical promises, which most people thought wouldn’t be honoured in practice, and wrote a lot of cheques, which most people considered would end up paid by cosmic borrowing on the money markets and running up the national debt to new record levels. In a nutshell the people I spoke to told me that they thought that the people Labour were offering as potential members of a Labour government weren’t seen as anywhere good enough to run the country or do most of the many things promised in Labour’s manifesto.

        Labour’s defeat was Labour’s fault and, mate, unless you can replace the whole voting public with a new one more sympathetic to people like Jeremy Corbyn and Co., if Labour wants to ever win power and do anything to change the country at any point in the future it is Labour that will have to change to suit the British people not the British people having to change to suit Labour.

        Make no mistake we are facing an existential threat here and I believe that if the party isn’t wise it may end up as unimportant, useless, powerless and disregarded as the Workers Revolutionary Party or Communist Party of Britain and the 21st century will be a Tory one.

        Coldwater

        December 16, 2019 at 11:15 am

      • Jeremy Corbyn wasn’t just mocked and made fun of in the traditional British way, he was vilified, slandered, smeared and misrepresented in a very dirty and distasteful manner by all and sundry at the instigation of a terrified Establishment that even used British Intelligence against him and us.

        trev

        December 16, 2019 at 12:25 pm

      • Tony Blair was roasted alive by the press and the media. Didn’t work though. He still road into Downing Street on his white charger to the thumping rhythms of ♫ Things can only get better…Things can only get better… ♫ Compared to Blair the press and media have gone soft on Corbyn. Corbyn got an easy ride.

        Chestnut

        December 16, 2019 at 11:37 am

      • @ Chestnut

        “Corbyn got an easy ride”

        Well there you go, you’ve proved my point by continuing to misrepresent the facts. You know your statement is not true so why are you saying it?

        https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/opinion/jeremy-corbyn-is-the-most-smeared-politician-in-history/18/07/

        trev

        December 16, 2019 at 1:04 pm

  82. John McDonnell: “Labour Party’s historic defeat wasn’t my fault” Then whose was it? Corbyn, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Green Goblin…. ?

    East Ham

    December 16, 2019 at 10:57 am

    • @ East Ham

      It was the fault of those behind the smear campaign (British Intelligence, Mossad, probably the Russians too, along with the Institute for Statecraft, and much of the mainstream media), it was also the fault of the gullible, Reactionary, Politically-illiterate electorate who need to be educated.

      trev

      December 16, 2019 at 12:10 pm

      • @ For goodness sake Trev ! Get real. Do you really think that MI5 and Mossad are the cause of Labour’s downfall ? This kind of conspiracy nonsense only diverts from the truth. Labour tried to force an unpopular leader on the British Public, and they weren’t having it. Same with Kinnock, and again with Miliband.

        Harry Palmer

        December 16, 2019 at 4:25 pm

      • If you bother to do a little research you’ll find that evidence of such interference exists, and it was MI6 and they used the Institute for Statecraft, whilst Israeli Intelligence were behind the antisemitism smears.

        trev

        December 16, 2019 at 4:32 pm

      • What about 3,330 year old Egyptian crocodiles ? Are they part of the plot against Corbyn ?

        HorstWessel

        December 19, 2019 at 7:06 am

    • If Labour look down on and seem to disdain the general voting public as much as you do, trev, Labour not only won’t be elected but don’t deserve to be elected. How can you possibly be so dismissive and contemptuous of millions of citizens, that you say the Labour party was founded to serve, when they choose not to support you or don’t agree with you? You need to get off your high horse, pal. And try not to bump your head when you do so because it must be a bloody long way down when you’re as highhanded and as stuck up as you seem to be.

      Man in the Street

      December 16, 2019 at 12:23 pm

      • Come off it, the vast majority of the British public are as thick as two short planks, dumbed down, deceived and distracted by 40 years of neoliberalism, inane Tabloids, and mainstream tv.

        trev

        December 16, 2019 at 12:34 pm

      • Your attitude stinks like rotting fish on ice, trev. Instead of asking where the party went wrong and trying to discover ways in which it could improve and be better you blame the public for Labour’s failure and accuse the public of being too stupid to vote for it. If you believe arrogance like that is the way to power you are on a hiding to nothing. While people like you hold sway over Labour it has not one scintilla of a chance of making progress towards office and the ability to wield political power. Irrelevance and eventual extinction are all you have to offer it. Your way is the way of the Dodo you poor sad deluded fool.

        Man in the Street

        December 16, 2019 at 4:03 pm

      • And your alternative is to throw the baby out with the bathwater by abandoning Socialist principles in order to attract votes, rather than investing time in re-educating the Proletariat to accept the fact that Socialism is the only answer.

        “There is no final battle, there is no final defeat. There is the same battle over and over again” – Tony Benn

        trev

        December 16, 2019 at 4:24 pm

  83. @Coldwater – I agree 100%. Labour have got some hard decisions to make. They lost a massive amount of working-class votes. Basically they are the party of the working-class. So when this goes what is left ?
    I’ve got to say I don’t see any amazing leaders among the current crop of MPs. Female Corbyn clones aren’t going to cut it with the electorate. There has now got to be root and branch reform throughout the party. No more local meetings with Momentum intimidating people of different views. The unions held to account, as they were under Blair.

    John Reid

    December 16, 2019 at 11:27 am

  84. @John Reid – And no more Corbynism or Corbynites, for the sake of the Labour Party. Remember, the true socialist path of moderation and tolerance. #Progress

    Malcolm F.

    December 16, 2019 at 11:36 am

    • But there’s no such thing as “Corbynism”, there’s just Socialism, and that’s what Jeremy Corbyn is, a Socialist. If you’re not a Socialist what are you doing in the Labour party?

      trev

      December 16, 2019 at 12:17 pm

      • @trev – I’m sorry Trev but that is just not true. There are many shades of socialism, and Jeremy Corbyn is, and always was, on the far-left of the Labour Party. There are many left-leaning people who didn’t particularly like Corbyn’s hard-line approach, or his Momentum backers.As well as many respected comrades within our own party who didn’t agree with him being leader. And you’ll just have to accept this Trev. I notice from your posts that you seem to see things in very black & white, rather simplistic terms.
        Then you launch into some rant about ‘martial law’ etc. It is exactly this rigid, dogmatic, Stalinist approach, that has cost Labour its worst election defeat since 1935, worse even the wipeout of 1983.

        Jeff Smith

        December 16, 2019 at 4:09 pm

      • Corbyn isn’t Far Left, he reclaimed the Centre ground from the Rightwing neoliberals who were masquerading as ‘Centrists’. Corbyn is a Centrist in the truest sense of the word. None of his Policies were radical in the context of the Labour party Socialist tradition. As for me “ranting” about Martial Law, I was merely pointing out the truth, i.e. That Boris has troops on standby right now ready to take over local government in the event of Brexit and its aftermath = Operation Redfold. The Conservative manifesto states that they plan to over-ride Parliament and the Judiciary. The UK is well on track to becoming a Fascist State under Emperor Boris.

        trev

        December 16, 2019 at 4:42 pm

      • @ trev

        Whatever Corbyn is or isn’t it wasn’t what the British people wanted.

        Doggy

        December 16, 2019 at 5:16 pm

      • @ Doggy

        Because of one issue; Brexit. Not because of Labour’s superb manifesto of other policies, such as re-Nationalization or saving the NHS, which most people were in favour of, but simply because they were duped into believing that Boris can deliver Brexit, and that blinded them to the importance of Labour’s other policies as well as to the very obvious flaws of Tory ideology that we all now have to live with (and for many, die with).

        trev

        December 16, 2019 at 5:37 pm

  85. trev

    December 16, 2019 at 2:16 pm

    • @trev: Because they understand the reality of life. They see their own working-class, warts and all. The group mentality, the petty spite. A dislike of outsiders and those who won’t conform. They take no comfort in their own class, and always being at the back of the queue in life. If they have moved up in the world, perhaps owning a home, their children in college. Voting Tory seems a safe and sensible choice.

      Tom Sutton

      December 16, 2019 at 4:22 pm

  86. Queen Boris.

    Violet

    December 16, 2019 at 2:22 pm

    • The Queen looks a mite older than that on the new polymer banknotes.

      F. Martyn

      December 16, 2019 at 4:30 pm

    • Gorgeous. If she gave me the green light I’d give it a go!

      Doggy

      December 16, 2019 at 5:15 pm

      • @Doggy I’d give it a go too !!

        Camerons Pig

        December 16, 2019 at 5:46 pm

      • I prefer her husband.

        Carrie Symonds

        December 16, 2019 at 8:13 pm

    • Cor! What a hottie!

      Gilfling

      December 16, 2019 at 7:54 pm

  87. @trev: Labour have lost because they failed to engage the working-class, and because Jeremy Corbyn was such an unpopular and divisive leader. There has been no conspiracy by Mossad or anyone else. Labour made a mess of the election, not helped by the anti-semitism scandal. Then Corbyn and Labour were totally rejected by the voters. So it’s no good looking in conspiracy websites for ‘proof’ that there was some awful conspiracy. No conspiracy was needed. Labour ruined their own chances, without any outside help.

    Tom Sutton

    December 16, 2019 at 4:45 pm

    • Well you have it your way if you want to deny the truth, but I am only interested in truth, which is that Jeremy Corbyn was made to be unpopular by a carefully orchestrated and widespread propaganda campaign to smear and demonize him, and the “antisemitism scandal” you speak of was a part of that.

      trev

      December 16, 2019 at 5:29 pm

  88. I think that “trev” is an internet troll having a laugh at our expense. Nobody could possibly believe the things that he pretends to believe and I reckon he’s just a bored guy trying to get a rise out of visitors to this site.

    And based on the number of postings he’s provoked he’s doing a darn good job!

    Doggy

    December 16, 2019 at 5:29 pm

    • @Doggy , I’m wondering about Trev as well, surely he can’t believe all this about Corbyn ?
      It looks like Momentum to me somehow.

      Marty

      December 16, 2019 at 5:42 pm

    • An “internet troll” indeed??!! That’s a bit rich considering that this blog is over run with bloody trolls, half of them posting under all manner of different made-up names including those pretending to be women. I just happen to have differing opinions to most who come on here, probably because I’m a Socialist, not a post-Blairite neoliberal or a Tory like most of the rest of you treacherous fuckwits.

      trev

      December 16, 2019 at 5:46 pm

      • @trev – There really is no need for such language. It reminds me of those awful people who turn up at our hunt meetings, swearing and shouting. Why must they be so working class ?
        And I can assure you, young man, that I am a woman, and a lady.

        Antonia Willington-Brown

        December 16, 2019 at 5:52 pm

      • No you’re not a woman, I’ve just tracked your IP and your name is Colin and you live in Immingham, correct?

        trev

        December 16, 2019 at 6:07 pm

      • @Trev – You know Trev, I think this site is beginning to get to you. You tracked an IP ? And you know someone’s name, from an IP address ? I don’t think so.
        Might be best if you get a cup of tea and an early night.

        Jackie

        December 16, 2019 at 6:53 pm

      • If you say so John 😉

        trev

        December 16, 2019 at 7:03 pm

      • You sound a bit like one of Momentum’s bully boys. You know the ones who boo loudly, shout people down, swear at them and insult them. Being a pluralist what you call treachery, trev, I call a difference of opinion. Once upon a time people could debate, even argue passionately, before parting ways politely and agreeing to disagree. Having no loyalties politically, least of all to transitory leaders I have no respect for, plus since I am neither a member of a political party or having voted Tory in any general election to whom/what have I been treacherous? That’s a daft thing to say. As daft as criticising a Christian for eating pork when it’s Jews and Muslims that are forbidden from enjoying a wholemeal ham sandwich with piccalilli!

        Calm down, sport.

        If you carry on like this you might burst a blood vessel!

        (I know you’re clowning about you realise.)

        Doggy

        December 16, 2019 at 8:12 pm

      • I don’t criticize people for their Religion though as an esoteric Christian I do not eat pork or any other sort of meat.

        trev

        December 16, 2019 at 8:26 pm

      • Good to know that you don’t eat pork, trev. Thanks for that. Kind of a shame that you don’t recognise metaphor when you see it though but never mind – it’s Christmas after all and the season of goodwill to all men!

        Doggy

        December 17, 2019 at 8:42 am

      • Operation Redfold is the military side of cross-Whitehall plans for no deal Brexit, titled Operation Yellowhammer.
        These armed forces could be utilised in the transportation of fuel, foods and other items into and across the country.

        HorstWessel

        December 19, 2019 at 7:16 am

  89. I don’t think that there is much doubt that Bojo will betray the people of the UK but maybe Corbyn and Farage were in on the deal to herd the people into the waiting arms of the neoconned Conservative party and will be well rewarded for their efforts!

    Tigerlily

    December 16, 2019 at 7:16 pm

    • Corbyn and Farage were part of the hustle alright. The farmer’s collie dogs herding the sheep who were boxed in and had nowhere else to go into Farmer Boris’s pen. We have been played for fools and been had once again.

      Penelope Fitzsimmons-Smythe

      December 16, 2019 at 7:43 pm

    • Yes indeed, well rewarded with plenty of shekels.

      Violet

      December 16, 2019 at 7:43 pm

      • ‘Violet’ you don’t seem to realize that over here in the UK it can be considered antisemitic to use such terminology, I don’t know about in the States but I think you ought to conform to British Values on a UK blog.

        trev

        December 16, 2019 at 7:52 pm

      • Is that you traced ‘Violet’ to the US Department of Defence, trev? Utah or somewhere in the Nevada desert?

        Red

        December 16, 2019 at 8:02 pm

    • The sheep were frightened and scared. Farmer Boris offered them safety, security and comfort. In their terror they ran towards Farmer Boris. Now Farmer Boris has rounded them up and marked them with pink dye. What the poor frightened sheep don’t realise it that this means they have been marked for slaughter and an imminent trip to Corbyn & Farage Meat Packers Abbatoir,

      Corbyn & Farage Meatpackers Plc

      December 16, 2019 at 7:56 pm

      • Are you saying that Labour didn’t offer safety, security and comfort to people? And that is why they lost?

        Little Red Cortina

        December 17, 2019 at 8:12 am

    • @ Tigerlily

      I suppose what you guys call “Neocons” are pretty similar but we call them neoliberals over here.

      trev

      December 16, 2019 at 7:57 pm

  90. Hark at one Trev, you’ve been going on about the Israeli Mossad, it really does have undertones of antisemitism.

    Violet

    December 16, 2019 at 8:11 pm

    • Not at all. I mentioned Mossad in regard to the smear campaign against Corbyn, because he is critical of the actions of the Israeli State in Palestine, and therefore Israel would have wished to prevent him from becoming PM, none of which has anything whatsoever to do with Jews, Jewishness or Judaism.

      trev

      December 16, 2019 at 8:19 pm

      • Trev, in a comment 2 days ago you criticised Israel for routinely breaking international law with impunity.. tut tut!

        Tigerlily

        December 16, 2019 at 8:51 pm

      • The Israeli State has indeed broken international law numerous times, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with ‘The Jews’, Jewish people, Jewishness or Judaism. Like Jeremy Corbyn, I am critical of the actions of the Israeli government but not of Jewish people. But unlike Jeremy Corbyn if I am accused of antisemitism rest assured I will take legal action (yes, even against American citizens).

        trev

        December 16, 2019 at 8:57 pm

  91. According to Andrew Neil the warm up act booked for the Donald Trump roadshow when he The Donald hits the campaign trail is none other than our own… our very own… Nigel Farage. I hope the fuck3r stays there!

    Tigra

    December 16, 2019 at 8:22 pm

  92. I’m going to let Saint Polly of Toynbee have the last word.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-manifesto-antisemitism-brexit

    Couldn’t have said it better myself, Pol!

    Doggy

    December 16, 2019 at 8:25 pm

    • Utter nonsense, absolute drivel, yet more of the usual smears from the msm.

      trev

      December 16, 2019 at 8:34 pm

      • The truth hurts, trev, and the first cut is the deepest. I feel your pain but am sorrier for the pain coming to millions of folk who needed a Labour government to stand up for them and save them. The fact that Labour and its leader were so desperately unappealing to the very people destined to suffer under the Tories that they voted for a Conservative party led by a shyster like Boris Johnson rather than the Labour party they voted for traditionally says everything that anyone should ever need to know. With the cold dead hand of Jeremy Corbyn on the tiller the good ship Labour was bound to founder on the rocks.

        Jeremy Corbyn might well be remembered by history as the man who destroyed the Labour party.

        A tragic if well deserved epitaph to the most hopeless and catastrophic Labour leader of all time.

        Doggy

        December 17, 2019 at 8:37 am

      • @ Doggy

        “the truth hurts”

        But Toynbee’s article contains many untruths, that’s the point. And it’s not about my “pain”, it’s about the millions of people who have suffered already, all those on Universal Credit, the homeless, the millions living in destitution, the one million plus using foodbanks, and the tens of thousands of people that have lost their lives as a result of Tory policies. It is also about the unimaginable “pain” and suffering that is yet to come. All of which could have been avoided by putting Jeremy Corbyn in No. 10.

        trev

        December 17, 2019 at 11:00 am

      • @ trev

        If Corbyn had never been elected leader more than likely the answer to Labour’s programme would have been, yes! Or if not that then a much quieter, no. Labour being conflicted about Brexit was a significant factor but it was Corbyn himself that WAS the major stumbling block. Labour needs to do much better next time if it wants is serious about ever getting elected to government again and looking at the people at the top of Labour now, apart from Keir Starmer, I don’t see a single person with a first class intellect and competence who could steer the Labour party in a better direction… which is why I bet he will be side-lined.

        Doggy

        December 17, 2019 at 11:12 am

    • Jewish chess-piece Polly Toynbee is a Mossad agent, so no surprise there 😉

      Salam

      December 16, 2019 at 8:39 pm

      • @ Salam

        I doubt that, but the MSM are undoubtedly influenced by the British Establishment which could include MI5/MI6 involvement. But in any case you are confusing Jewishness with the alleged activities of the Israeli State, which is incorrect as Corbyn had the support of many Leftwing Jews. It was never about antisemitism, that was merely a fiction of the Rightwing with the intention of smearing Corbyn.

        trev

        December 16, 2019 at 8:50 pm

      • Diane Abbott mentioned that MI5/MI6 and the security services had their oar in and were interfering with the election. Probably why she wants to get rid of them.

        Cabbage

        December 16, 2019 at 8:55 pm

      • I have it on good authority that there are some MI5 agents within the BBC, including some household names. One of them (who shall remain nameless) was used some years ago in an unrelated manner in a matter related to the debunking of some unexplained activity that could be linked to the UFO phenomenon.

        trev

        December 16, 2019 at 9:06 pm

      • You’re a card right enough, Trev, I’ll give you that but the game is up. We can see all see now that you’re a leg puller and joker. Your cover is blown! It’s people like you that create urban myths – no doubt if Jezza had passed away while campaigning you’d have accused Mossad, or somebody equally sinister, of lacing his orange juice with Sodium Pentothal and assassinating him in order o keep the ball rolling – but you’ve been found out here, man, and it’s time you pulled the plug on the trolling.

        Doggy

        December 17, 2019 at 8:20 am

      • In all seriousness Doggy I was actually half-expecting Corbyn to be assassinated, if the smear campaign hadn’t been so successfully and Labour ratings really started to rise, then I’m sure they would have bumped him off. The Establishment will stop at nothing to prevent a Socialist government.

        trev

        December 17, 2019 at 11:06 am

      • The stuff about the planned Corbyn assassination was all true. Someone posted it on a 911 truthers forum so it must be true. It was worrying time when Corbyn gained a bit in the polls knowing that agents were waiting to pull the trigger or poison his camomile tea.

        Fire CANNOT Melt Steel

        December 17, 2019 at 1:10 pm

  93. Its gone, its over, brace yourselves for 5 more years of Orwellian life.

    Almost 10 years ago we were promised a brighter future yet now face a bitter relationship with the rest of the world that sees us for what we really are, a little rock, alone,vulnerable and at their mercy.
    We are not an empire so to insist we will benefit most is foolhardy no matter the political swing as we arent the ones holding the cards.
    Next year will be interesting to say the least.

    Doug

    December 17, 2019 at 9:18 am

    • @ Doug

      The next five years will be ‘interesting’ but not in a good way. Millions of poor people will die, starvation and suicides will be the order of the day. Foodbanks won’t be able to cope with demand. Supermarket shelves will be empty. Mass redundancies will see half the country on Universal Credit. There’ll be no NHS, and there’ll be troops on the streets as the Pale Horse of the Tory Apocalypse tramples all underfoot, all except the rich.

      trev

      December 17, 2019 at 11:13 am

      • there’ll be troops on the streets

        And they would open fire.

        trevor@dwp.gov.uk

        December 17, 2019 at 11:52 am

    • Incuding the internet as you know it.

      xclausx

      December 17, 2019 at 12:12 pm

    • We haven’t seen anything yet.

      xclausx

      December 17, 2019 at 12:43 pm

      • “We haven’t seen anything yet”

        That just gave me a flashback to the Alan Freeman show, introducing Bachman Turner Overdrive singing “You ain’t seen nothing yet”

        trev

        December 17, 2019 at 12:53 pm

      • Are they really going to put troops on the street and shoot people for chaarrrriaddeeee? 😀 😀 😀 😀

        Smashie & Nicey

        December 17, 2019 at 1:00 pm

    • @trev- So really this election was pointless ? As the result had already been decided by a secret group of intelligence agencies, the Whitehall establishment and a right-wing press ? But that would mean that Labour never really had chance to win, and that the powers that be were only going through the motions of an election. Surely not here, in Britain ?

      George M.

      December 17, 2019 at 12:48 pm

      • Got it in one, it was probably pre determined before the general election who was going to win!

        Violet

        December 17, 2019 at 1:08 pm

      • Well I wasn’t going to bring this up as it’s too much for most people to get their heads around, but seeing as you asked, all elections are ultimately pointless as Democracy is an illusion. The Left/Right paradigm of Western Democracy is actually the Hegelian Dialectic in action; Thesis Vs. Antithesis produces Synthesis. So basically you can never win and we’ve all been had.

        trev

        December 17, 2019 at 1:10 pm

      • Like in a court of law the verdict is decided before you set foot in it the election was pre-planned. Laura Kuntsberg was just going through the bowel motions.

        Consti Pation

        December 17, 2019 at 1:15 pm

      • Well, that’s true. Must be a first for you, trev 😉 Basically we live in a (sort of benevolent?) dictatorship. Brexit kind of proved that point anyway. We all know that elections are a farce but we just go along with it for the laugh out louds and the entertainment value.

        Kim un Jong III

        December 17, 2019 at 1:19 pm

      • @ Kim

        There is actually a bit more to it than that but it depends how far down the rabbit hole you want to go, but in the meantime the best anyone can hope for is to elect the party that best represents your interests (or is likely to do the least harm) for the duration of this little bit of Space-Time that you currently temporarily occupy. Having said that, TPTB think and plan much more long-term, over Centuries even Millennia, and view Democracy as a stop-gap and a means to an end rather than an end in itself, until the New Golden Age is established (a plan tracing all the way back to Akhnaton. For further info see: ‘The Secret Destiny of America’ by Manly P. Hall, ‘The Light in Britain’ by Grace Cooke, and also a good starting point ‘Talisman’ by Hancock & Bauval. You may also glean more from the Rosicrucian teachings.

        trev

        December 17, 2019 at 3:23 pm

      • See the ‘Reptilian Conspiracy Exposed’ by Icke. The most explosive book ever. It will blow your mind.

        Travis Bickle

        December 17, 2019 at 4:31 pm

      • Icke, David Icke, stupid! You talkin’ to me? Well then, who the hell are you talking to?

        Travis Bickle

        December 17, 2019 at 4:35 pm

  94. Surprise, surprise….

    Workers’ Rights under threat from Boris Johnson

    https://welfareweekly.com/workers-rights-under-threat-as-boris-johnson-backtracks-on-pre-election-pledge/

    This is what you get when you vote Tory

    trev

    December 17, 2019 at 12:44 pm

    • Of course the elections are pre determined, all the mud slinging between the parties is part of the theatrics, it’s just one big bloody pantomime!

      Tlgerlily

      December 17, 2019 at 1:40 pm

  95. There is a shop soon the be opening in Ipswich called company shop group. Supposedly it sell supermarket surplus at 60% off

    “So how do I become a member and maybe stretch that dole cheque a bit further?
    Unlike normal supermarkets you need to be a member to shop here. You can apply for membership if you’re in one of the following groups:

    Employees who work in the FMCG food supply chain.
    NHS (including volunteers, students, GP Practices & NHS Dentists)
    Police Officers (including special Police Officers)
    Fire Service Staff
    Those in receipt of a qualifying pension from the groups above”

    Oops! 😀 😀 Not even ‘waspi women’ can sign up (unless they have a police service pension)

    Meg

    December 17, 2019 at 12:50 pm

    • Good on socialism – giving more to those who don’t need it. Corbynism on steroids. It shouldn’t be allowed anyway, in fact it should be illegal since regular supermarket customer and those on benefits who haven’t yet been reduced to a foodbank are in effect paying for these discounts. There is no such thing as a free can of spam. Somebody always ends up paying.

      Zioana

      December 17, 2019 at 12:56 pm

      • @ Ziona

        Amazing, you’re actually blaming Corbyn for this! The Tories have been in power for a decade and in case you hadn’t noticed have just been re-elected. How on earth can ANYTHING that happened or happens in this country be the fault of Jeremy Corbyn or his ideology or his supporters? How?

        I suppose you’re one of the idiots who supports the Privatization of the NHS too.

        trev

        December 17, 2019 at 5:02 pm

      • lol trev, if someone’s bus is late or if it rains on the way to the bus-stop Corbyn and his ideology always get the blame 😀

        Maggie

        December 17, 2019 at 5:22 pm

    • Although I’m sorry for the WASPIs as soon as Labour promised £50 billion to compensate them, out of thin air, it completely ruined Labour’s attempt to look fiscally competent, with everything properly accounted for costed and explained, reducing Labour’s Gray Book to wastepaper in the blink of an eye.

      Tori Sponge

      December 17, 2019 at 4:42 pm

  96. A good friend of mine often wears women’s clothes at the weekend. He started in a small way, with just a pair of stockings, and went on from there. He says it helps him get in touch with his feminine side.

    Malcolm

    December 17, 2019 at 12:53 pm

    • @ trev – Not sure if I understand the bit about dialect. But surely there would be no point in having elections if this were true ? The whole system would be pointless and we would all be trapped in a sort of Matrix situation.

      Dave

      December 17, 2019 at 2:34 pm

    • @malcolm, Good for him !

      Sarah

      December 17, 2019 at 3:35 pm

    • What a drag.

      Ru Courtney

      December 17, 2019 at 4:36 pm

  97. Esther McVey is Housing Minister ? Good to see DWP people getting on, and no doubt will be a great asset to the many homeless in the UK.

    Garry N.

    December 17, 2019 at 2:25 pm

  98. The Dirty War on the NHS

    ITV tonight.

    10.45pm – 12.40am

    xclausx

    December 17, 2019 at 2:33 pm

    • @xclausx, Good film, well worth seeing. It was on free view on Youtube up til the election. Who knows what happens to the NHS now ?

      Terry

      December 17, 2019 at 2:37 pm

      • @Terry, Boris Johnson is too crafty to do anything dodgy to the NHS straight away. He knows this is a red line even he can’t cross.

        Kathy

        December 17, 2019 at 3:33 pm

      • Johnson certainly is crafty and not to be trusted, but I’m afraid the Privatization of the NHS is already well underway, it began under Blair and has been taking place by stealth ever since. All Boris has to do is join the dots and sign some agreements with American companies (that rich Tories have shares in) and it will be complete before anyone notices, the NHS having been reduced to a brand logo, the services of which will be available via Insurance policies for those that can afford them.

        trev

        December 17, 2019 at 3:49 pm

  99. Damian Green Tory MP saying on LBC, that we all need to start paying towards an insurance type system to pay for our care. The shape of things to come ?

    Telstar

    December 17, 2019 at 4:35 pm

    • But we already do – it’s called National Insurance!

      Courtney

      December 17, 2019 at 4:39 pm

    • Oh make no mistake about it, the Tories are definitely going to Privatize the NHS, despite what Boris says in public.

      https://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2019/12/17/private-medicine-and-the-demand-for-the-privatisation-of-state-medical-care/

      And the Great British public voted for this!

      trev

      December 17, 2019 at 4:52 pm

      • It is a load of nonsense. Most customers of the NHS are poor people. And they are there mainly because of lifestyle factors such as alcohol, drugs, junk food diet, lack of exercise etc. Do you think Jacob Rees- Moggs gets his money’s worth out of his NHS sub? The drugs companies and equipment manufacturers make a fortune out the NHS. In any case the NHS will patch you up and put you back on the production line if you are economically viable, i.e. still got some work left in you but once you hit a certain age you become a ‘problem’. You will be fobbed off and left to die. The only way to get treatment is to ‘go private’.
        In places such as the Netherlands there is a growing demand to bring in ‘end of life euthanasia’ with an age of 70 – to begin with. Looked after properly a human body should make it to the biblical three score year and ten without any medical intervention. 90% of NHS spend on us is spent on us in the last 6 months of your life. That is why they are so quick to put you on the ‘Liverpool Pathway’, and what they do is overdose you with morphine to speed your demise. The NHS serves a purpose, it is not some benevolent institution.
        It is all economics. You are an economic unit. Once you have no value it is off you pop. Unless you can afford to pay for treatment.

        Sophie R

        December 17, 2019 at 5:14 pm

    • @telstar, Is that the same Damien Green used to be with the DWP ? I wondered what he had been doing with himself all this time.

      Jack Sprat

      December 17, 2019 at 5:20 pm

  100. I blame the Illuminati. They’re impish and very naughty, especially during Saturnalia.

    To Mega Therion

    December 17, 2019 at 5:01 pm

    • There is one known to us, who stands between the Two Pillars Of Wisdom.

      Magister

      December 17, 2019 at 5:16 pm

      • The Magus of Ipswitch stands against the dark, his feet in the Kingdom his head Crowned and amongst the stars. Speak not before the profane of the Middle Pillar of the Otz Chiim lest Daath swallow thee. Vale.

        S.R.M.D.

        December 17, 2019 at 8:05 pm

    • @tomegatherion – But why would the Illuminati want to have Jeremy Corbyn defeated ?

      Barry

      December 17, 2019 at 5:25 pm

      • @barry, Because of their time-travel abilities. Time and space as we experience it mean nothing to the masters of the Order. They already know how the future will unfold, and the defeat of Corbyn may have some purpose in the greater Cosmic Plan.

        Vayshana

        December 17, 2019 at 11:24 pm

  101. My Brothers on the Sacred Path, I urge you not to speak of these matters before the profane and ungodly.
    Those who are beyond the light. The Seventh Cycle is at hand, and all our energies must be turned towards this great work.

    Habazeciel

    December 17, 2019 at 5:34 pm

  102. DOOM AND GLOOM ON THE HORIZON AS POUND PLUMMETS ALREADY

    It is very difficult to collect my thoughts into something coherent after four hours sleep in the last 48 hours, but these are heads of key issues to be developed later.

    I have no doubt that the Johnson government will very quickly become the most unpopular in UK political history. The ultra-hard Brexit he is pushing will not be the panacea which the deluded anticipate. It will have a negative economic impact felt most keenly in the remaining industry of the Midlands and North East of England. Deregulation will worsen conditions for those fortunate enough to have employment, as will further benefits squeezes. Immigration will not in practice reduce; what will reduce are the rights and conditions for the immigrants.

    Decaying, left-behind towns will moulder further. The fishing industry will very quickly be sold down the river in trade negotiations with the EU – access to fishing (and most of the UK fishing grounds are Scottish) is one of the few decent offers Boris has to make to the EU in seeking market access. His Brexit deal will take years and be overwhelmingly fashioned to benefit the City of London.

    There is zero chance the Conservatives will employ a sizeable number of extra nurses: they just will not be prepared to put in the money. They will employ more policemen. In a couple of years time they will need them for widespread riots. They will not build any significant portion of the hospitals or other infrastructure they promised. They most certainly will do nothing effective about climate change. These were simply dishonest promises. The NHS will continue to crumble with more and more of its service provision contracted out, and more and more of its money going into private shareholders’ pockets (including many Tory MPs).

    The disillusionment will be on the same scale as Johnson’s bombastic promises. The Establishment are not stupid and realise there will be an anti-Tory reaction. Their major effort will therefore be to change Labour back into a party supporting neo-liberal economic policy and neo-conservative foreign (or rather war) policy. They will want to be quite certain that, having seen off the Labour Party’s popular European style social democratic programme with Brexit anti-immigrant fervour, the electorate have no effective non-right wing choice at the next election, just like in the Blair years.

    To that end, every Blairite horror has been resurrected already by the BBC to tell us that the Labour Party must now move right – McNicol, McTernan, Campbell, Hazarayika and many more, not to mention the platforms given to Caroline Flint, Ruth Smeeth and John Mann. The most important immediate fight for radicals in England is to maintain Labour as a mainstream European social democratic party and resist its reversion to a Clinton style right wing ultra capitalist party. Whether that is possible depends how many of the Momentum generation lose heart and quit.

    Northern Ireland is perhaps the most important story of this election, with a seismic shift in a net gain of two seats in Belfast from the Unionists, plus the replacement of a unionist independent by the Alliance Party. Irish reunification is now very much on the agenda. The largesse to the DUP will be cut off now Boris does not need them.

    For me personally, Scotland is the most important development of all. A stunning result for the SNP. The SNP result gave them a bigger voter share in Scotland than the Tories got in the UK. So if Johnson got a “stonking mandate for Brexit”, as he just claimed in his private school idiom, the SNP got a “stonking mandate” for Independence.

    I hope the SNP learnt the lesson that by being much more upfront about Independence than in the disastrous “don’t mention Independence” election of 2017, the SNP got spectacularly better results.

    I refrained from criticising the SNP leadership during the campaign, even to the extent of not supporting my friend Stu Campbell when he was criticised for doing so (and I did advise him to wait until after election day). But I can say now that the election events, which are perfect for promoting Independence, are not necessarily welcome to the gradualists in the SNP. A “stonking mandate” for Independence and a brutal Johnson government treating Scotland with total disrespect leaves no room for hedge or haver. The SNP needs to strike now, within weeks not months, to organise a new Independence referendum with or without Westminster agreement.

    If we truly believe Westminster has no right to block Scottish democracy, we need urgently to act to that effect and not just pretend to believe it. Now the election is over, I will state my genuine belief there is a political class in the SNP, Including a minority but significant portion of elected politicians, office holders and staff, who are very happy with their fat living from the devolution settlement and who view any striking out for Independence as a potential threat to their personal income.

    You will hear from these people we should wait for EU trade negotiations, for a decision on a section 30, for lengthy and complicated court cases, or any other excuse to maintain the status quo, rather than move their well=paid arses for Independence. But the emergency of the empowered Johnson government, and the new mandate from the Scottish electorate, require immediate and resolute action. We need to organise an Independence referendum with or without Westminster permission, and if successful go straight for UDI. If the referendum is blocked, straight UDI it is, based on the four successive election victory mandates.

    With this large Tory majority, there is nothing the SNP MPs can in practice achieve against Westminster. We should now withdraw our MPs from the Westminster Parliament and take all actions to paralyse the union. This is how the Irish achieved Independence. We will never get Independence by asking Boris Johnson nicely. Anyone who claims to believe otherwise is a fool or a charlatan.

    Sarah7

    December 17, 2019 at 5:35 pm

    • @ Sarah7

      The Blairites need to be driven out of the Labour party so that Labour can fight against the Tories with a united front, not undermined from within by traitors to the Socialist cause.

      trev

      December 17, 2019 at 6:36 pm

      • @trev, It wasn’t the Blairites that stuffed up the election, it was the Corbynites.

        Disgusted Labour

        December 17, 2019 at 11:16 pm

  103. @sarah7 : Hisht lassie ye ken nae whit ye ur sayin’ ! If th’ scots lae th’ sassenachs we will be naethin’ but a puir nation beggin’ at th’ doors ay europe. wee Nicky Sturgeon has a bee in ‘er bonnit abit independence. but has she costed it ?

    Dougal McGregor

    December 17, 2019 at 5:51 pm

  104. Rod Liddle over on the Spectator is urging his readers to join Labour and vote for DAVID LAMMY as leader.
    This is the same Rod Liddle who urged his readers to join Labour (for £3) and vote for JEREMY CORBYN as leader.

    Mary

    December 17, 2019 at 6:49 pm

  105. We need to choose someone devoid of even the slenderest vestiges of sentience and who the general public will quickly come to detest.

    The obvious candidate is Diane Abbott, but I don’t think she’s a runner.

    Rebecca Long-Bailey would be good and Richard Burgon even better.

    But to really take things forward for the party and estrange the last few remaining potential Labour voters, it surely has to be Lammy.

    Get signed up here now!

    Mary

    December 17, 2019 at 6:50 pm

  106. Will Boris Johnson recall the boats that have been purposefully stationed on the English Channel with orders to pick up these illegal imm*****igrants and take them to the UK?

    No.

    Where’s the evidence for “purposefully stationed”? Well, France is a safe country. So when the “lifeboats” pick up these “immig**********rants” they should be taken to French ports and handed over to the French authorities there.

    What is happening is that Johnson is agreeing to the EU’s demand that all states in Europe take a share of the immigrants that Merkel invited in.

    Boris Johnson is a Tony Blair on steroids. He’s a globalist and open borders fanatic. The orders to pick up these immigrants from the French coast and take them to the UK were given under Johnson’s watch. We have been had.

    Omar

    December 17, 2019 at 7:02 pm

    • a Omar

      “We’ve been had”

      Well I haven’t been had because I didn’t vote Conservative, and those who did wtf do you expect? Though I wouldn’t call Johnson a “Globalist” by any stretch of the imagination, he’s just cancelled foreign aid ffs! The notion of a world without borders is a Socialist one which I fully support.

      trev

      December 17, 2019 at 7:10 pm

      • A world without borders is convenient if you are a tourist. Maybe, would also world in a state of flux, an equilibrium where everything remains constant. But what happens when there is a seismic shift of population from one part of the world to another? Say the population of the USA decided to move to the UK or a few billion people from Africa suddenly decided to descend on the UK? How does it look at the coalface? Can a country, cope adapt to such an event? Has anyone made a film exploring this scenario?

        28 Days Later

        December 17, 2019 at 7:28 pm

      • @ 28 Days

        Don’t worry, it won’t/can’t happen yet, not until mankind is ready and sufficiently enlightened to accept such responsibility. Freedom and Responsibility are two sides of the same coin. Most Socialists envisage a world without borders in a Marxist context, but there is a Spiritual factor that is not considered. It’s a sort of Catch 22, we can’t have a world without borders until we become wise enough to overcome the desire to be somewhere else. A bit like Schumacher’s theory of the Economics of Permanence, it will only ever happen when human beings no longer want things other than what they need. The death of Desire is the key.

        trev

        December 17, 2019 at 7:43 pm

      • Oh dear Trev, you haven’t joined the dots up yet, do you even know who, what and why is behind open borders!

        Tigerlily

        December 17, 2019 at 8:33 pm

      • Let me guess, it’s a Mexican plot to take over the world and replace the English language with Spanish? Or to revive Latin as a spoken language? Or to steal Trump’s toupee and sell it to the Skull & Bones to use as a tea cosy? Or is it because the Inuit want to get their hands on the oil?

        trev

        December 17, 2019 at 8:46 pm

      • It is one of those, trev, but which one? 😉

        George Soreass

        December 17, 2019 at 8:53 pm

    • trev

      December 17, 2019 at 7:14 pm

  107. Boris is a crony Capitalist, not much different than Corbyn and his Communists. Neither care about the indigenous people.

    April Rose

    December 17, 2019 at 8:29 pm

    • Are you suggesting that some people deserve to be treated less than the indigenous people? And who would that apply to? What would the pecking order be?

      trev

      December 17, 2019 at 8:37 pm

  108. Trevor has just been awarded the honorary title of The Resident Dipshit!

    Tigerlily

    December 17, 2019 at 9:16 pm

    • An Accolade at last, finally the recognition I deserve! Will there be a ceremony? Any guest speakers? Who will present this illustrious award, Donald Rumsfeld?

      trev

      December 17, 2019 at 9:22 pm

      • Well, trev, that’s what you’d call an known unknown; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. 🙂

        Regards

        Donald

        Donald Rumfeld

        December 17, 2019 at 9:31 pm

      • Well, trev, that’s what you’d call an known unknown; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. 🙂

        Regards

        Donald

        Donald Rumsfeld

        December 17, 2019 at 9:33 pm

      • Glad you’ve got a sense of humour Trev, I will see what can be arranged by way of an award ceremony!

        Tigerlily

        December 17, 2019 at 9:35 pm

  109. trev

    December 17, 2019 at 9:46 pm

    • @Trev- This was always a con trick. The real difference between being on Minimum Wage zero-hours and benefits, is not really enough to make a significant difference in lifestyle. Particularly if there are families involved.

      Patrick

      December 17, 2019 at 10:57 pm

      • Exactly, which makes a mockery of the Tory lie of their so-called “Aspiration” mythology, it is no longer possible to work your way out of poverty, if indeed it ever was.

        trev

        December 18, 2019 at 9:33 am

  110. At the claimant commitment meeting there would be a discussion about the Universal Credit
    journal. It would be discussed and agreed on an individual case by case basis. Claimant may be
    mandated to complete the Universal Credit journal. If they fail to complete it or accept it after a
    discussion with their work coach, then they could be sanctioned.

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/605040/response/1452565/attach/html/2/FOI2019%2036568%20Reply.pdf.html

    they changed may to, could be sanctioned pmsl 😉

    superted

    December 17, 2019 at 9:56 pm

    • Such wonderful terms & conditions await many of those who voted Tory when they lose their jobs in the Brexshit shit show that Boris will eventually deliver, as they will be heard with tears of anguish to cry in vain “Oh, Jeremy Corbyn”.

      trev

      December 17, 2019 at 10:29 pm

  111. At the Jobcentre today, sudden shouts of protest from a man on ESA , when it seems that his Work Coach is suggesting he looks for work. She backs off quickly and says ”Oh No , you are not expected to look for work, at the moment, but we would like you to consider what work you could do, if you get better .”
    The Work Coach is herself partly disabled, on crutches. These can be some of the most deadly in my experience. They are working while disabled, as Work Coaches, and have fully signed-up to the DWP philosophy about work. Without any irony, she wishes the invalid man and his carer, a Merry Christmas !

    Paul S.

    December 17, 2019 at 10:50 pm

    • @Paul S. – It’s always the way with the DWP. First they slap you in the face, then they want to shake your hand. As if nothing has happened ! Horrible atmosphere in these Jobcentres, like the dentist.

      Greg

      December 18, 2019 at 11:04 am

  112. One for you, @superted – The latest piece of psycho-pressure from the DWP – making the remaining JSA ‘legacy claimants’ sign-on with the old-style paper forms. Why ? Because they have ‘disconnected’ these claimants from the electronic signing pads that have been used for the last few years. Now reserved for Universal Credit.

    Marty

    December 17, 2019 at 11:08 pm

    • I’ve noticed that too Marty, last few times I’ve signed on it has been on paper the old way and I am on JSA. I think they’re trying to sift us out.

      trev

      December 18, 2019 at 9:40 am

    • i still sign on with paper as refused to use the pads as they dont work anyway but you can refuse to use them and sign on with paper.

      superted

      December 18, 2019 at 12:09 pm

  113. This is what JV had to say:

    “Just because immigration can lead to growth, and even create jobs, does not mean the benefits of that growth are shared equally. You might want to read this: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~uctpb21/Cpapers/Review%20of%20Economic%20Studies-2013-Dustmann-145-73.pdf

    “As for the effects on native wages, we find a pattern of effects whereby immigration depresses wages below the 20th percentile of
    the wage distribution but leads to slight wage increases in the upper part of the wage distribution.”

    You can deny this, you can continue telling people suffering the worst consequences of neo-liberalism that what they are experiencing in their lives isn’t true and they are racists for even mentioning it, but you will lose the argument, as you just did. Worse, you open up a political space for real racists and fascists to occupy, as they are doing. The left should, and must fight against racism, more than ever at the moment. It should make the case that it’s bosses and politicians who are ultimately responsible for shit wages and no houses, but should also be grown up enough to recognise how immigration is used under neoliberalism to lower wages and working conditions and understand the impact that has on people. Your attitude is the reason the left is so fucked, it’s you that needs to stop and think, because all you are doing is sowing the ground for UKIP, or worse, to grow stronger.”

    Roberta

    December 17, 2019 at 11:58 pm

    • JV was a straight shooter. Not some Illuminated Master of the Esoteric Order. No wonder JV was disappeared into the Shadow of the Fallen whilst the Magnus of Ipswich beams from the Hallowed Halls.

      vert

      December 18, 2019 at 12:13 am

      • @vert: So mote it be.

        Xeros

        December 18, 2019 at 11:09 am

      • Tacere.

        Grand Puissant Thaumaturgical Heirophant and Imperator of the Ordo Hermeticus Aurorae Aureae

        December 18, 2019 at 3:40 pm

  114. trev, it is time to grow up, really it is.

    Roberta

    December 18, 2019 at 12:00 am

    • @Roberta – No it isn’t, now is the time to enter suspended animation until this Tory era has passed. Then emerge reborn into a new world of hope and equality.

      Samael

      December 18, 2019 at 11:06 am

  115. ‘Labour needs not just a different driver, but a different bus.
    This election was no ordinary defeat for Labour. It marks a moment in history.’ Tony Blair

    Return Of Blair

    December 18, 2019 at 12:13 pm

    • @ And the bus needs to go down a different route, obeying the speed limits and not upsetting any of the passengers.

      On The Buses

      December 18, 2019 at 8:22 pm

  116. You can have a truly socialist Labour party that embodies socialist values and aspirations fully or you can have a less dogmatic, ideological and pure Labour party that wins elections. That’s the binary, mutually exclusive choice. Personally I would rather have an electable Labour party that has the power to do much good rather than a Labour party that wants to storm heaven and do everything but ends up only able to do nothing because not enough people in the United Kingdom can ever be persuaded to vote for it.

    If the choice is half a loaf of bread or no bread at all unless you want to starve you’d choose the half loaf.

    Sane and Sensible Realist

    December 18, 2019 at 3:30 pm

  117. It can only be a matter of time before Jezza does Strictly Come Dancing.

    Tess Twice Daly

    December 18, 2019 at 3:32 pm

    • @Tess Twice Daily – Or I’m A Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here !

      Jack Sprat

      December 18, 2019 at 8:13 pm

    • I pray to God if Jezza does Strictly that he won’t get Oti as a partner. I love Oti and wouldn’t want her paired off with such a cold fish and loser like Jeremy Corbyn. I bet when he gets knocked out of the competition first he won’t even have the decency to say sorry to whoever had been stuck with him same as with the Labour MPs who lost their seats. Gordon Brown took the trouble to personally telephone every Labour MP who lost their seat but to do something as kind and decent as this was beyond Jezza apparently. No wonder that somebody so wooden and unfeeling lost the general election.

      Claudia

      December 19, 2019 at 8:21 am

  118. Caroline Flint could have beaten Boris
    Rod Liddle

    There were not many moments of gloom on election night. I spent most of it, so far as I can recall, in a state of inebriated euphoric gloating — enhanced by the fact that I had hitherto been extremely worried about the outcome. Winning goals are always the most enjoyable when scored, unexpectedly, in injury time. In this case, the exit poll at ten o’clock, a little later confirmed by the equivalent of VAR, Blyth Valley going blue. And then Stockton South — even the local Tories, whom I know well, had not expected to win.

    From then on it was a mirth fest, reaching its apogee when the fabulously witless Labour MP Richard Burgon was wheeled out to explain the debacle, which he did in the manner of a village idiot attempting to explain the theory of relativity. But there was one moment of sadness, late on — the result from Don Valley, an emotional Caroline Flint evicted after 22 years. You may not have mourned, but I did. For a bit, at least.

    I think it remains the case that had Caroline Flint been the party leader, it would be Labour, not the Tories, now enjoying an 80-seat majority in the House of Commons. This is not simply because she is a much more intelligent — and principled — politician than Magic Grandpa, although that undoubtedly helps. It is because the policies would have been very different — firstly on Brexit, for Flint was insistent that the wishes of the majority be respected, but in more general terms, too. Londoner she may be, but Flint is also a social democrat, convinced that her party exists to help the poorest in society and reduce inequality, rather than as a conduit for infantile agitprop attitudinalising. She understands that her working-class constituents are often socially conservative and have little time for identity politics, and that they are patriotic, too.

    The deposed Labour MPs, Flint included, bemoaned the Corbyn factor, almost exclusively blaming him for their defenestrations. Understandable, I suppose. But it is a little wide of the mark. Corbyn, remember, was a capable campaigner in 2017. And while this time around I think his affection for terrorists and dislike of everything British people, especially working-class British people, hold dear did at last cut through, he was not much more reviled on the doorsteps in my home area of Teesside than, say, Ed Miliband was.

    The problem for Labour is that it has long been on a dogged march away from its supporter base, a process only exacerbated, rather than begun, by Momentum’s control of the party and Corbyn’s stewardship. It is now in a position where it actively despises the core values of the people it was set up to represent, thinking them regressive as opposed to progressive. And so it is left to fight for electoral territory among a more metropolitan and affluent class, vying with the Lib Dems and the Greens and even the socially liberal Tories. There are not enough votes there to go around.

    At the moment Labour can depend on the votes only of students, who are sometimes remiss in turning up at polling booths. The group who have been most likely to vote Labour in recent years are Muslims (85 per cent did so last time), but for how much longer will Labour be able to take the Muslim vote for granted? A community which is even more conservative, socially, than the white working class? Look at the largely Muslim protests outside those schools in Birmingham, the fury that their children should be indoctrinated with fashionable beliefs in gay and transgender rights. My suspicion is that the Muslim vote will slowly turn away from Labour too. The party will be left with a few hipsters in London and, of course, the kidz.

    The question is: can the party be changed? Can it find itself a leader who can return Labour to its old core values? My friends and former colleagues in the Blue Labour branch of the party believe it can. Their argument is that Tony Blair was able to take the party over and, later, Jeremy Corbyn was able to take the party over. So — it is possible to take the party over. But that is forgetting the fact that Momentum, whose members are even more removed from Labour’s old voter base than Jeremy Corbyn is, now have total control over the entire machinery of the party, not least the National Executive Committee. They have seized control of local branches, and those branches which show dissent have Momentum candidates imposed upon them, like it or not. Moderate politicians are harried and bullied until they leave the party or, like the excellent Gavin Shuker, are threatened with deselection.

    Momentum’s supporters are relentlessly active on social media, in demonstrations, in meetings — and are utterly intransigent. They may represent a tiny strand of the electorate, both demographically and ideologically, but they have been able to impose their idiotic belief system upon a huge party. I may have mourned Caroline Flint’s passing, but Momentum will have been breaking open the bubbly. Another one down! It is hard to see how their stranglehold can be broken — and as Labour’s vote dwindles and dwindles and the good people get the hell out, that stranglehold will surely increase in its intensity. Just three quid to take over an institution. How Labour’s old-school members must curse Ed Miliband.

    Some, like Chuka Umunna, may find refuge in the Liberal Democrats. But the majority, I think, would not be happy there, because they have no more in common with the liberal voter base than they do with the Momentum voter base. As you might expect, I would urge the likes of Caroline Flint and Ian Austin and John Mann and Kate Hoey to join my lot, the Social Democratic party. There is nothing in our manifesto with which they would disagree. Come and help us consign Labour to the fringes and represent the people Labour was founded to represent.

    The Spectator

    December 18, 2019 at 7:33 pm

    • A fringe party like the Social Democrats is never going to present a serious challenge to the Tories.

      Rob

      December 18, 2019 at 8:18 pm

  119. trev

    December 18, 2019 at 9:22 pm

    • Back in day social housing was based on a ‘points’ system. You got so many points for how long you were on the waiting list, points for lacking basic facilities, etc. Then it was changed to the ‘priority’ system and if you are not a priority you will NEVER be socially housed. Social housing allocation is a crock and grossly unfair and discriminatory. But you yourself, trev, said that if someone was a greater priority than you, they should be housed in preference to you. You would be prepared to DIE ON THE STREETS. There is absolutely no point in building any more social housing if you would never be a priority. You, trev, Momentum and Corbyn are part of the problem and not part of the solution and it is why the white, working-classes told Labour and Corbyn to do one. So don’t shed any of your crocodile tears for the indigenous, white working-classes die on the streets whilst criminal and the money-classes from abroad get everything going, and their many children get the best start in life. And, by the way, your hero Corbyn is a con. He was put there to serve a purpose. How long before he is coining it in on ‘Strictly’ like that fat fucker Ed Balls.

      Emily T

      December 18, 2019 at 9:45 pm

      • @ Emily T

        My experience of Social Housing “back in the day” was no points system whatsoever, you simply rang the Housing Association arranged an appointment, went to see them in their local office and they offered me a flat, just like that, no points, no bond. They were actually advertising that they had flats available on the local radio, that’s how I heard about them. That was in 1997, and I continued to live there for 17 years. It was easy to get a flat then, if you didn’t mind living in a war zone, they couldn’t give them away!

        trev

        December 19, 2019 at 5:07 pm

    • This ‘Bureau of Investigative Journalism’ have their website on the creepy three-letter-agency front ‘Cloudfare’ servers. But you should know that, trev, since you can track posters down to their home address. Soon the whole internet will be ‘owned’.

      Arapa

      December 18, 2019 at 10:02 pm

    • Shameful and wrong. I wonder how much more of this we will be seeing over the next 5 years ?

      I Voted Labour

      December 19, 2019 at 11:49 am

  120. How dare you!

    Greta Thunberg

    December 18, 2019 at 11:22 pm

    • Know, dare, will and be silent.

      Grand Puissant Thaumaturgical Heirophant and Imperator of the Ordo Hermeticus Aurorae Aureae

      December 19, 2019 at 12:53 pm

      • @Grand Puissant – Astra inclinant, sed non obligant.

        (The stars incline us, they do not bind us )

        Seriophon

        December 19, 2019 at 4:47 pm

  121. Queen’s Speech 2019 in full: Boris Johnson’s plan for government at a glance.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/queens-speech-2019-full-boris-21127051

    xclausx

    December 19, 2019 at 12:40 pm

  122. Why did Labour lose the election? Answer: Confusion and conflict over the party’s stance on Brexit and being lumbered with a dull-witted, charmless, uncharismatic, humourless, underachieving nobody accidentally returned as party leader, with a lot of unpatriotic, unfavourable and ugly personal history behind him, totally devoid of intellectual voltage, political nous, managerial ability and leadership skills who basically couldn’t organise a pi55 up in a brewery if his life depended on it.

    Now you know.

    Try to do better next time.

    Truthspeaker

    December 19, 2019 at 2:37 pm

    • Don’t beat about the bush, man, say what you mean!

      Phil Latio

      December 20, 2019 at 12:05 pm

  123. just signed on such an atmosphere, not a Christmas tree or decoration in sight, compared to last year my jc had seven trees on one floor.

    also no mention of Christmas from work coach they simply said see you after the bank holiday.
    I have never heard of Christmas being describe as a bank holiday before.

    snoopy

    December 19, 2019 at 4:08 pm

    • If you’re on Universal credit you don’t get Bank Holidays and still have to do a 35 hour work-search during XMas week. Of course people just write down “Looked at jobsites 8.00am – 3.00pm” having done on such thing which is why the work-search requirement is bollocks.

      Art

      December 19, 2019 at 5:23 pm

    • Christmas is only kept on life support for the commercial money-making aspects of it otherwise if would have been consigned to the politically-correct dustbin a long time ago.

      The Clauses

      December 19, 2019 at 11:44 pm

  124. treb

    December 19, 2019 at 4:55 pm

    • @trev – And you notice how she managed to avoid going to jail ? If a claimant had stolen £18,000 of benefits they would have been straight inside.

      Charlie T.

      December 19, 2019 at 5:23 pm

  125. There didn’t seem to be anything about the poor and unemployed in the Queen’s Speech ?

    Graham Parker

    December 19, 2019 at 5:25 pm

    • That’s a good thing though innit? The last thing that you want to hear form the Royal lips is: “My Government is commited to getting the unemployed back to work. My government will introdce a progamme that will guarantee every unemployed person a job or training. Any unemployed person refusing to take up the offer without good cause will lose all entitlement to State support. My government will pay for this programme through a ‘windfall tax’ levied on the fossil fuel companies. My government is clear: no unemployed person will be allowed to remain idle.” That is what you would have heard if Corbyn had got in.

      ...And the Rumour

      December 19, 2019 at 6:37 pm

      • Pay is the issue. David Cameron made people work, sometimes hard manual work, for no pay. On nearly all government so-called training schemes, Tory and Labour, there has no training either unless you count one day health and safety “courses” or 2 day first aid “courses” neither of which are helpful to anybody as far as finding gainful employment is concerned. If people are properly rewarded for their labours, i.e., paid the going rate for the job, I don’t see that it matters whether they work for pay on a government scheme or for a private or public employer. Nobody should be compelled to undertake any kind of work without being paid however.

        Arthur

        December 20, 2019 at 8:52 am

  126. Life-long Labour voters opened their doors to The Daily Beast this week and poured scorn on a man they described as “weak,” “a Marxist,” “a joke,” and “a disgrace.”

    It is true that some of this disdain in ‘Leave’ voting areas flowed from Corbyn’s tortuous progress towards making Labour an anti-Brexit party. But that was only one factor cited in a torrent of abuse directed at the hapless leader.

    Even in Labour target seats in the anti-Brexit London suburbs, former Labour loyalists said they could not bring themselves to vote for a man who has spent his entire adult life campaigning alongside anti-Western activists associated with Hamas, Hezbollah, and opponents of Israel, some of whom have been accused of anti-Semitism.

    True Believer

    December 19, 2019 at 6:35 pm

    • Corbyn is a IRA sympathiser. Corbyn has stated that he would welcome ISIS terrrorists in with open arms. Turn them into celebrities. Let them make a mint. Wonder how may Jews voted for Corbyn and Labour?
      The though of voting for Corbyn is enough to make you throw up!

      E. M. Etic

      December 19, 2019 at 6:46 pm

  127. “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, her sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; she speaks in accents familiar to her victims, and she wears their face and their arguments, she appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. She rots the soul of a nation, she works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, she infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.”

    — Marcus Tullius Cicero 106-43 B.C

    Marcus Tullius Cicero

    December 19, 2019 at 11:06 pm

    • @Marcus – This must be one of the most considered and erudite blogs on the internet. Where else can one enjoy such a fruitful mix of political discourse, wit and learning ?

      Edward Collington Esq

      December 20, 2019 at 11:46 am

  128. A judge told one of Britain’s leading hunt masters he did not need to enter the dock because ‘you’re not the sort of person we ordinarily have in court’ after his dog savagely attacked a woman.
    Captain Rupert Inglesant will be forced to have the dog destroyed after it sank its teeth into a woman’s thigh and later left two other walkers fearing they would be bitten. – Daily Mail

    You have got to be kidding ? Tory Britain 2019

    Jack Sprat

    December 19, 2019 at 11:11 pm

  129. Time for some fresh copy Andrew please.

    The Editor

    December 19, 2019 at 11:13 pm

    • Greta ‘How dare you?’ Thunberg will be editing this blog over xmas 🙂

      Eco Warrior

      December 19, 2019 at 11:20 pm

      • Love her. She’s sixteen and so fair game and legal in the United Kingdom.

        Fiddler

        December 20, 2019 at 8:08 am

  130. Having an all-women government in Finland spells disaster.

    Women leaders in Europe have destroyed their own countries.

    Britain is gone.

    Sweden is gone.

    France is gone.

    Germany is gone.

    The women leaders have turned all power over the the Sharia Muslims and homosexuals. The foreign Muslims in those countries do whatever they want. They rape anyone they want, They murder anyone they want .

    The women leaders thought they were so much smarter and understanding than others who might have used some common sense.

    And when those European countries have turned into complete garbage, it will be up to the surviving men to fix it. It will be the MEN who have to fight the wars and it will be the MEN who have to hunt down and fight with the criminals in order to restore law and order for their communities. It will be up to the MEN to protect the lives of their fellow citizens while the women leaders go back to their safe, warm homes to have a cup of tea and some cake, while they watch TV and watch the men sacrificing their lives and their health to protect their families.

    TRUMP FOR A SECOND TERM

    the GreatGlobalWarmingSwindle

    December 19, 2019 at 11:49 pm

    • You would most definitely qualify for involuntary sectioning under The Mental Health Act 1983. Paranoid schizophrenia is my best guess as per a diagnosis in respect to your mental health. This is a tricky disease to treat and in your case I recommend suicide.

      Dr C. G. Young (Rtd)

      December 20, 2019 at 8:43 am

  131. Having an all-women government in Finland spells disaster.

    Women leaders in Europe have destroyed their own countries.

    Britain is gone.

    Sweden is gone.

    France is gone.

    Germany is gone.

    The women leaders have turned all power over the the S*****haria Mu**********slims and hom***********osexuals. The foreign Mu**********slims in those countries do whatever they want. They rape anyone they want, They murder anyone they want .

    The women leaders thought they were so much smarter and understanding than others who might have used some common sense.

    And when those European countries have turned into complete garbage, it will be up to the surviving men to fix it. It will be the MEN who have to fight the wars and it will be the MEN who have to hunt down and fight with the criminals in order to restore law and order for their communities. It will be up to the MEN to protect the lives of their fellow citizens while the women leaders go back to their safe, warm homes to have a cup of tea and some cake, while they watch TV and watch the men sacrificing their lives and their health to protect their families.

    the GreatGlobalWarmingSwindle

    December 19, 2019 at 11:52 pm

    • I knew you were a misogynistic Trump supporter even before you confessed it.

      Anus Spotter

      December 20, 2019 at 8:04 am

      • Oh! And a racist too! But being a misogynistic Trump supporter that goes without saying.

        Anus Spotter

        December 20, 2019 at 8:06 am

    • Personally, I have always been attracted to strong, dominant women. Who are not afraid to take the lead in sexual matters.

      Toby

      December 20, 2019 at 11:49 am

      • I only have four requirements as far as the fair sex goes:

        Human (no animals or aliens), XX chromosomally (no transexuals), over the age of consent (no jailbait) and possessing a pulse (no cadavers). Anybody who satisfies those four simple qualifications is good for it as far as I’m concerned.

        Hugh G. Rection

        December 20, 2019 at 6:56 pm

    • Dianne Abott would be a superb leader. Go for it Labour!

      E Milliband

      December 20, 2019 at 6:34 pm

  132. But we still haven’t answered the basic question. Why should people who are quite sure they don’t want to work, be forced to do so by the DWP ?

    Peter B.

    December 20, 2019 at 11:41 am

    • Because from every government’s point of view the less support extended to low-earning/none-earning citizens (minority) the more they can do to favour average-earning/high-earning individuals (majority) giving them a better chance of remaining in power and being judged a success in respect to provision of public services. Swings and roundabouts. If you have comprehensive social security with high benefits you will have less opportunity to cut income tax, corporation tax, inheritance tax etc., and less money to spend on public services like the NHS, armed forces, infrastructure and police etc., so it makes sense to force as many people off benefits as possible both to make them productive economically and pay them less money by way of entitlements.

      All of the political parties agree on this.

      Sadly, at present the Conservatives have pinned their flag on the very flawed Universal Credit system under which able-bodied recipients should, in theory, be “encouraged” to get work, some work, any work, and then enjoy “progression” where they get more work or other work until they are eventually earning enough under their own scheme to become completely independent and self-sustaining.

      Trouble is none of that really happens for the majority of UC claimants.

      Universal Credit remains a fairy tale written by the Brothers GRIMM!

      Aleister

      December 20, 2019 at 12:01 pm

      • @Aleister – You can say that again !

        Gretel

        December 20, 2019 at 12:16 pm

  133. Boris Johnson is poised to push through requirements for photo ID at polling stations – plans that critics warn are designed to suppress the ability of young people and disadvantaged groups to vote.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-queens-speech-voter-id-polling-station-a9253386.html

    xclausx

    December 20, 2019 at 1:36 pm

    • Why not just give people who don’t have any photo ID a free photo ID card which they can then use, instead of a passport or photocard driving license, to claim benefits, vote in elections and apply for jobs etc? Millions of people currently don’t have any kind of photo ID which makes claiming things like Universal Credit very long-winded and drawn out. I could do with one of them as long as I don’t have to fork out any money to get it.

      Hero in a half shell

      December 20, 2019 at 7:07 pm

  134. Visited the joke shop today and was ordered to upload my CV onto my journal and was told it is mandatory. Is it really mandatory and if I don’t upload it will I get sanctioned? My CV is my own personal data why the hell should I have to give it to those b☣️stards!

    Violet

    December 20, 2019 at 5:52 pm

    • It is not mandatory for the claimant to upload their CV onto the journal, the claimant must however be able to show a completed and up to date CV.

      https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/using_paper_print_offs_as_eviden

      However, If you’ve already signed your CC agreeing to upload your CV on to the journal, them I’m afraid you’re screwed!

      jj joop

      December 21, 2019 at 9:56 am

      • Thanks jj I’ll have to then.

        Violet

        December 21, 2019 at 10:10 am

  135. Has Mr Coates expired with shock because of the size of the Tory majority? Has he done a Johnny Void and vanished without trace? Has he found gainful employment and no longer wants to hobnob with the likes of us? Why is he absent without leave during such a trying and testing time? What’s going on? Answers on a postcard please to: Polly Toynbee, The Guardian, London.

    P. Toynbee

    December 20, 2019 at 7:01 pm

    • This post is going to go the way of JV’s last post currently at over 5,000 comments and counting…

      The Last Post

      December 20, 2019 at 7:07 pm

      • @ Last Post – A sort of automatic blog, which answers its own questions ?

        Dan Dare

        December 21, 2019 at 12:57 pm

      • Andrew Coates

        December 21, 2019 at 1:08 pm

      • Andrew Coates

        December 21, 2019 at 1:09 pm

  136. I think you’ll find that the Ipsissimus of Ipswich is involved in other duties upon the Hidden Path. And may even now be journeying somewhere, far out upon the astral plane.

    Astronomus

    December 21, 2019 at 1:05 pm

    • He is still here!

      But frankly what can you say…..

      Andrew Coates

      December 21, 2019 at 1:07 pm

      • It doesn’t come as a surprise,limiting workers rights will not create lasting jobs’.Treating people like crisp packet’s,people have been in temporary jobs for two years as an excuse to pay less then full time employees,interestingly the company American is now rubble and housing is now being built on the site with a large chimney preserved as a reminder and the housing estate named after.

        Where the EU for its faults worked for the common good the Conservatives are for their own good.Anything that people came with with skills in demand was ignored instead used as limiting migration for political purposes.Why did bus companies have to recruit in Poland?.

        We’re likely to see more American companies’ sweeping the cuboard out in the UK will this create more jobs?

        ken

        December 21, 2019 at 5:48 pm

  137. It always was about Human Rights & not politics.

    Serco have now got the Food Bank contract & G4S will be on the Food Bank door contract to make sure you have been vetted with mandatory reconsideration or you won’t get in. Scrapping Legal Aid is illegal, also the mandatory reconsideration ‘Vetting’ appeal system is illegal until Boris gets his UK Bill Of Rights called Brexit. UKs Human Rights Laws answerable to no one.

    Oh no defeated victims 200,000 DWP State Sponsored Murders.

    Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    December 22, 2019 at 12:26 am

  138. End of Year Stats

    Record 1.6m food bank parcels given to people in the past year as the Trussell Trust calls for an end to Universal Credit five week wait

    https://www.trusselltrust.org/news-and-blog/latest-stats/end-year-stats/

    xclausx

    December 22, 2019 at 9:23 am

  139. ‘ Queen ‘uncomfortable’ with unmarried Boris Johnson and girlfriend staying at Balmoral
    The Prime Minister brought girlfriend Carrie Symonds with him to Balmoral on a visit in September – in spite of royal protocol which says unmarried couples can’t stay at the Queen’s residences.’ Daily Mirror

    Are there no moral standards left in public life ?

    Cordelia Hartley -Brown

    December 22, 2019 at 11:44 am

  140. Reblogged this on Tory Britain!.

    A6er

    December 22, 2019 at 3:32 pm


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