Universal Credit Lies Slammed But DWP Misinformation Continues.
Resting Place for DWP Fake Information Campaign on Universal Credit.
The Ministry of Truth still says,
It’s come to a sorry pass when even Bunga Bunga Boris’s daily points to the reality behind this porky,
Universal Credit claimants keep less of their pay than millionaires
The Sun.
Those on million pound salaries get to keep 54p from every £1- but if you’re on Universal Credit you are just 37p better off.
That’s because of the way the benefit works. If you’re on Universal Credit you have 53p from every £1 you earn – known as the taper rate – over the work allowance deduced from your benefits payment.
The work allowance you get is based on if you have children, are in a couple or get help with housing costs.
It means that hard-working people on Universal Credit have their payments slashed, effectively paying a tax on earnings, as we’ve highlighted in our Make Universal Credit Work campaign.
We want the government to increase the work allowance and lower the taper rate.
The benefit is leaving hard-working Brits penniless, like Roxy Thobald, who despite working 20 hours a week, fed her seven-year-old daughter Bella leftover party food because she had no cash due to Universal Credit’s harsh taper rate.
Or single mum Gemma Hickman who is studying to be a physiologist and works 20 hours a week but can’t afford present for her kids this Christmas.
Sara Willcocks, from poverty charity Turn2us, said: “Universal credit just isn’t working for low income families. How can it be when people earning low wages have more deducted from their incomes than millionaires?
The same story appears in the Mirror, suggesting that the Currant Bun has not gone further than a keyboard and the net to write their article.
Universal Credit claimants keep less of their pay than millionaires
People with jobs but still claiming Universal Credit see a bigger chunk of their incomes vanish than those on seven-figure salaries thanks to the way the benefit works.
The merry tale about the fake Universal Credit ads (Universal credit adverts banned as ‘misleading’) continues,
Hotspur has already noticed these letters in the Guardian.
Aditya Chakrabortty’s article (The government uses your money to gaslight poor people, 6 November) revealed the depth that the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) will go to defend its failing flagship universal credit programme, which has pushed thousands of people into poverty. It is important people are able to make decisions that impact on their finances based on factual information.
The anti-poverty charity Z2K (Zacchaeus 2000 Trust) that I lead was the first to complain to the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) about this series of ads, and we are named in the ASA’s final ruling. We were compelled to make this complaint because we simply could not understand why the DWP would make assertions without clear evidence to back up their claims.
We were really pleased to see such wide coverage of the ASA ruling, and to know that thousands of Guardian readers share our concerns. We are, however, very disappointed that the DWP is neither able to satisfactorily explain its actions or apologise for the harm they will have caused to the people who may have moved on to universal credit as a result.
The ruling comes too late as the now discredited campaign has already ended. That’s why Z2K has launched a public campaign calling for an apology from the DWP and an independent investigation into how and why these adverts came to be authorised. It is vital that we the public can trust government departments to be telling us the truth, particularly in being clear about their strategies to ensure that the social security system works as a safety net to reduce the numbers of people now living in poverty in the UK. Instead of using taxpayers’ money on a failed PR campaign, the DWP must now start engaging meaningfully with the widespread evidence of the impact of welfare reform on pushing people into poverty. Join our campaign to tell the DWP to #StopMisleading today.
Raji Hunjan
CEO, Z2K (Zacchaeus 2000 Trust)The ASA found that government claim “people move into work faster” under universal credit breached the advertising code under the rules 3.1 (Misleading advertising), 3.7 (Substantiation), 3.9 (Qualification) and 3.11 (Exaggeration). That exact phrase has been used by government MPs 67 times in parliament to defend universal credit, as well as in countless media interviews. It is the key plank of the government’s claim that universal credit is making lives better – yet it fails to meet the basic standards of truthfulness and honesty that we demand of soap powder commercials. It is time that it is removed from the mouths of government ministers.
Paul Morrison
London• Huge credit to Aditya Chakrabortty. Credit also to cabinet secretary Mark Sedwill, for ruling that the government cannot publish a Treasury analysis of Labour’s spending plans. While both developments are clearly embarrassing to the Conservatives, I think they also reveal a worrying failure by the civil service to adhere to its “core values” of integrity, honesty, objectivity and impartiality.
Specifically, officials in the DWP and Treasury seem to have been willing participants in attempts by the government to manipulate the evidence in order to support a predetermined policy (universal credit), rather than providing an objective analysis of its impact; and to devote resources to rubbishing opposition spending plans for party political purposes, while apparently not having sufficient resources to analyse the impact of the government’s Brexit deal.
I worked for 38 years as a government analyst and I know that the UK civil service, in particular its analytical professions, has a deserved reputation for observing high standards of professionalism and propriety. It saddens me to see this now under serious threat from the actions of current government ministers, combined with the pressures from austerity and the demands of Brexit. It will be important for the next government, and civil servants themselves, to take steps to restore this reputation before it is too late.
Alan Spence
Southport, Merseyside
Meanwhile Therese Coffey is preparing for the Great Flood that will hit Suffolk Coasts
Ipswich Unemployed Action. 
Work Allowances only apply in very limited circumstances:
“Work Allowance
In some cases, you may be eligible for a work allowance. A work allowance is the amount that you can earn before your Universal Credit payment is affected.
You will be eligible for a work allowance if you (and/or your partner) either have:
responsibility for a child
limited capability for work
The monthly work allowances are set at:
£287 If your Universal Credit includes housing support
£503 If you do not receive housing support
If you have earnings but you (or your partner) are not responsible for a child or do not have limited capability for work you will not be eligible for a work allowance.”
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-work-allowances/universal-credit-work-allowances
Denise C
November 9, 2019 at 11:35 am
Reblogged this on Tory Britain!.
A6er
November 9, 2019 at 11:54 am
There’s only one answer: Get the Tories OUT, vote Labour.
trev
November 9, 2019 at 12:27 pm
If the Tories win, a lot of people will think that Labour have done this to themselves. Again.
You can’t just push an unpopular leader on the public, and then somehow expect people will vote for him.
James G.
November 9, 2019 at 12:36 pm
We told them, but they wouldn’t listen… #Progress
Dave M.
November 9, 2019 at 12:47 pm
But Corbyn is very popular, with everyone but the Rightwing.
trev
November 9, 2019 at 3:23 pm
but they are not voting for him ffs………………theyare voting for labour party and to get the tories out no matter what it takes. what makes me so angry is they were willing to give the tories a chance………they had no option. both may and johnson. blair and others. but wont give corbyn one on the grounds thast the tories have domne a hatchert job on him and the people cant see the muck for the trees.
hugosmum70
November 11, 2019 at 4:36 pm
Labour aren’t going to win, mate, thanks to Jeremy Corbyn.
Maybe next time, if the party ditches him, maybe never if they don’t.
Om the Multidimensional Man
November 9, 2019 at 2:32 pm
Well the choice is yours; vote Labour or accept another few years of disastrous Tory mis-rule. The only way to get rid of the vermin is by voting Labour.
trev
November 9, 2019 at 3:21 pm
I am going to vote for my Labour PPC, locally, as the best hope to oust the Tory, who was my MP until the election campaign began, and deny Boris Johnson at least one M,P but I do so in the knowledge that across the country far too many floating voters who might otherwise have voted Labour don’t like, rate or trust Jeremy Corbyn enough to have the confidence to support the party he purportedly leads and that their votes will end up scattered amongst the Liberal Democrats, Greens, SNP, Plaid Cymru and a host of other smaller parties and independent candidates which can only be good news for the Conservatives. I hope against hope to get a Labour MP to represent my interests and won’t have to spend the next parliament with the same Tory as my MP as before but I know, as I type these words, that if this happens it will be a Pyrrhic victory because I am convinced that Labour is on a hiding for nothing with Corbyn as its leader.
In less than five weeks we will know which on of us was right.
Om the Multidimensional Man
November 9, 2019 at 4:46 pm
Corbyn and McDonnell have transformed the Labour party into what it is meant to be, a Leftwing Socialist party. If they ever revert to being a Neoliberal Rightwing Blairite party of the type that the so-called ‘Progress’ tossers want then I certainly won’t vote for them. Faced with an enemy such as the vile Tory scum only Socialism can fight against them, you have to fight fire with fire, and only Corbyn can save us.
trev
November 9, 2019 at 7:04 pm
@Trev – Why couldn’t Corbyn have just resigned, for the Party’s sake ? He can see for himself the way things are going. And you say he’s popular ? With the lowest poll ratings of any opposition leader ever.
And the Tories with massive poll lead already. Now the Anti-Semite thing has started again. And the Hey Jude song scandal. Two of his own MPs are telling everyone not to vote for him. And Tom Watson, Corbyn’s Deputy Leader has resigned. # Progress
Ken
November 9, 2019 at 9:56 pm
Why on earth should he resign? He’s the leader we’ve been waiting decades for! Don’t believe the polls. Don’t believe the Right wing smear campaign about alleged “antisemitism”. The Tories are falling apart, legal action pending against Boris Johnson, a huge unaddressed problem with racism within their party, not to mention the absolute shambles they’ve made of Brexit, and the little matter of destroying the Social Security system, 14 Million people in poverty, homelessness increased, never seen so many beggars on the streets, crime out of control, the NHS up for sale. Corbyn is the only one who can save us.
trev
November 9, 2019 at 10:04 pm
Sick of saying this to people. ITS A GENERAL ELECTION .YOU ARE NOT VOTING FOR A LEADER YOU ARE VOTING FOR YOUR OWN MP AND A POLITICAL PARTY………plus JC has done nothing wrong. all that bumf about being an IRA or terrorist supporter. HE HELPED TO BRING ABOUT THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT AND PEACE IN NORTHERN IRELAND…….HE WAS NOT A SYMPATHISER WITH THE IRA OR ANY OTHER GROUP THAT BOMBED PEOPLE.HES AGAINST BOMBINGS.SHOOTINGS ETC. but the torys ARE for war. they supply arms to saudie arabia and other places where fighting is going on. they too, mrs may, bojo,farage and others no doubt , ive seen the photos of those i named with IRA leaders. they have all had photos taken with tyrants/ like hussein etc)
hugosmum70
November 10, 2019 at 12:00 am
The Tories have been waging war against us for the past decade, a brutal Class War. No criticism of them from the Progress Blairite faction, only criticism of Jeremy Corbyn, the very man who is standing up to the Tories and fighting on our behalf.
trev
November 10, 2019 at 11:02 am
@Trev…wish people would realise.its not hero worship of corbyn or Mcdonald.. its the mere fact that midst all this nastiness, sanctions, not knowing what will happen next. who will be the next to be attacked financially etc, worry about our own lives and the lives of our kids,grown up or not, our grown grandkids and great grandkids… we are being given hope. hope of a better life to come. and i dont mean after death. that will come soon enough i expect for me, but after all the years of struggling to bring my kids up, they still dont have a better life and wont unless corbyn gets in. i dont expect he would do half of what he says. some would be impossible probably. but if he made some of his policies work it would lift a lot of worry from folks shoulders. hope is the one word that i see now. the rest is more misery. hope is what i live on and i get so angry with people who try to take that away from me.they are no better than the tories.
hugosmum70
November 12, 2019 at 1:00 am
I totally agree. We’ve got to get the Tories OUT, enough is enough.
trev
November 12, 2019 at 9:00 am
To win an election you need a very much broader appeal to the electorate than Corbyn has. Jezza is loved and adored to the nines by the faithful but the faithful do not number enough to get Labour elected to office.
Labour is not going to win because Corbyn has not managed to get enough of the unaligned to support him no matter how good a man he might be as an individual. He’s got about as much chance of becoming the next Prime Minister as Jesus Christ standing for election to Pakistan’s parliament.
Wrong man, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.
I realise that admirers who have blind faith in Corbyn won’t realise the truth until the middle of next month but next time around, in four or five years time, I really hope that Labour will have rebuilt itself and will do better.
Om the Multidimensional Man
November 10, 2019 at 11:49 am
The thing is Corbyn has no intention of standing down. Even if he does lose the upcoming election he has vowed to ‘”fight on”. Corbyn intends to be leading the Labour Party in 5, 10, 15… years time.
Floating Voter
November 10, 2019 at 12:09 pm
There’s absolutely no reason why he should stand down, Corbyn is the best thing that ever happened to the Labour party!
trev
November 10, 2019 at 12:39 pm
The issue is clearer than that: do we vote for Bunga Bunga Boris or Corbyn?
Do we vote for the Tories, and all they have done and will do to people on benefits, low wages, and public services, or do we vote for Labour who stand up for us lot?
Andrew Coates
November 10, 2019 at 12:47 pm
Exactly Andrew. It’s a straightforward choice; Labour or the Tories. A line has been drawn and all you have to do is decide who’s side you’re on, them or us, that’s what it boils down to despite all the other distractions such as Brexit etc.
trev
November 10, 2019 at 12:57 pm
Unless Labour wins a majority or the most MPs during an election it will have next to no power or influence to implement policies and improve anything. To do this Labour HAS not only to get card carrying Labour party members and lifelong Labour voters on board but win a very large number of votes from that part of the electorate which votes promiscuously and changes their vote from party to party. Under Corbyn the number of Labour members went up (most of which people would vote Labour in every election anyway) while support from those unaligned with the party went down: so what we have now is a party with a very supportive base of committed Labour supporters, not big enough to win any election on their own, and a dwindling pool of casual voters who for whatever reason don’t like or trust Jeremy Corbyn for all sorts of reasons, some valid, many others not.
Being loved and adored by a minority doesn’t win elections, having the charisma and appeal to win support from a majority of the electorate does, at least under the first-past-the-post system. Jeremy Corbyn has conspicuously failed to garner such support and we will all see what happens under these circumstances in a matter of weeks. And so on we will go living under the Conservatives, who look set to win a working majority or the most MPs, for the foreseeable future with Jezza, if he stays, wheedling at Boris Johnson at PMQs but changing nothing ending his spiel with a sound bite which his handlers hope will end up echoed by the social media and reported on the news.
It’s kind of sad that so many people haven’t seen this future hurtling towards us at break neck speed. The people looking on Jeremy Corbyn as the white knight come to save them should prepare themselves for disappointment. We will all have to wait for another five year, ten years, maybe tens of years until a moderate Labour party led by a much superior leader arises and holds the reins.
Om the Multidimensional Man
November 10, 2019 at 2:11 pm
@ Om
I was a traditional Labour voter many years ago but I didn’t support Blair /New Labour, all through those years I voted Green or occasionally SWP. I only returned to the ranks of being a Labour supporter because of Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell, though I am not a Party member (as yet)mainly because I am too skint to be able to afford to subscribe to anything, often barely able to afford food things are that bad and I truly need every penny.
trev
November 10, 2019 at 2:33 pm
P.S.
It’s not as if I see Corbyn as a “White Knight”, just that he is a man of integrity (a rare thing in Politics today) with sound Policies, and who has transformed the Labour party into something I can finally vote for instead of some pale imitation of the Tories.
trev
November 10, 2019 at 2:48 pm
The good thing about the upcoming election is that we should know the outcome in a matter of weeks. Unless, of course, it drags on like Brexit for years and years will demands for a ‘peoples’ vote’ to ‘confirm’ the decision.
Years and Years
November 10, 2019 at 2:20 pm
Labour under Jeremy Corbyn is like Labour under Michael Foot and the end result will be defeat. My advice is to vote for the candidate most likely to beat the Conservative and Brexit party candidate. I will be voting Labour because locally the Labour candidate IS the most likely to win over the Tory but I would vote for somebody else, tactically, if someone else looked more promising. I would do this to reduce chances of a Tory majority because, even though I am going to vote Labour, I do not believe that a massive last minute surge of support to Labour will magically get Jezza into 10 Downing Street as Prime Minister for a parliament.
The respected and often very accurate Electoral Calculus agrees with me, sadly:
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html
Vote with your heart or vote tactically but please don’t vote for the Tories or even worse the Brexit party.
Om the Multidimensional Man
November 10, 2019 at 4:48 pm
and while ever people like you keep saying stuff like that people wont vote for labour. your doing real harm to the labour party. an d in doing so depriving people like me n my kids and others who are suffering a darn sight more from ever having a decent life.(or at least a better one than we have now and definitely a better one than if conservatives get back in .they will think their birthdays have come all at once n theyve been given carte blanche to do what the hell they like to those who dont have jobs, rely on benefits because they cant work, you are hitting the vulnerable just as if you yourself had cut their heads off. we might as well be bloody dead as live a life theyve got in store for us. do you have any idea how scared the people in the worst situations are of the torys winning this election?(their situations all caused by the tory policies of the last 10 years) do you???? im telling you,if labour dont get in you will see many more suicides among our citizens. those that are down already have nowhere else to go., stop thinking of your feelings about this man. hes the only one can,given the chance, help this country. and if he doesnt we wont be any worse off. but we will if the torys get back in. theyll take it as if ALL OF BRITAIN APPROVE OF WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. they are that thick headed.
hugosmum70
November 12, 2019 at 12:09 am
@hugosmum70, Living in hope is like dancing without music. You must be in a sorry state if all you have left is hope. Many people spend their whole lives living in hope: the hope that these political charlatans give us in spadefuls.. There is an interesting BBC documentary on this very topic made in the 70s knocking about, It makes good points about hope, how we are given hope; the hope that we can somehow ‘breakthrough’; the hope that somehow our children’s lives will be better than our own, but it never transpires. Our hope for a better life is never fulfilled. We can never break our bonds, break free from our chains. We, and our children, continue to live on what feels like the latest Ken Loach film documenting our travails. When you watch the BBC documentary about life in the 70s you realise that NOTHING has changed – we are still living in hope.
Whistle Down the Wind
November 12, 2019 at 10:09 am
everyone who ever lived has lived on hope of or for one thing or another. In 1 Corinthians 13, Paul places the greater emphasis on Charity (Love). “So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”…………. do you feel any love? because i really dont think you do. as for the BBC i lived through the 70s. through recession after recession strike after strike…so dont quote the BBC at me. i never watch it, nor read anything they say. they are torys the lot of them as such lie through their teeth. not a good bone in any of them that run it. and if you have nothing to hope for you must be a very miserable sad person (but i domnt believe you never hope for something if only promotion or somer other selfish hope.
hugosmum70
November 12, 2019 at 3:59 pm
♫ Gimme hope Jezza
Hope Jezza
Gimme hope Jezza
‘Fore the election come ♫
Eddy Grant
November 12, 2019 at 10:14 am
Your temporary work could be a stepping-stone to misery and exploitation. Used as cheap labour by employers who have used Universal Credit to dispense with employment rights like sick pay and holidays.
Instead of having a proper job, people are just called in for work as required. Often with no notice.
Then simply ignored when it suits the employer to cut down on costs. Ideal for the employer. stress and hardship for the worker.
Jeff Smith
November 9, 2019 at 12:44 pm
I honestly don’t know who I’ll vote for. Obviously not Tory and as a Learning off in my trade union Unison the expectation is we’ll vote Labour however as a Jewish person I really do feel there’s substance in the anti Semitic rows going on. ….ppl argue I should vote Labour ad the best option but…..
katrehman
November 10, 2019 at 11:10 am
I suggest that you consider doing what I am going to do: Vote for the person most likely to defeat the Conservative and Brexit party candidates. In my case this means Labour. In your case it might be someone else. If we can deny Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage from getting an MP elected that’s the best that can be hoped for as far as voting goes; Labour are not going to win so trying to deny Boris Johnson a majority is the only sane thing to do.
Om the Multidimensional Man
November 10, 2019 at 11:41 am
Kat,
The antisemitism allegations are fake news, nothing more than a smear campaign by the Rightwing, there are plenty of Leftwing Jews and Jewish organizations that support Labour and Jeremy Corbyn. It is the pro-Israel lobby who use antisemitism as an excuse to attempt to undermine Corbyn. Statistically, there is more antisemitism within the Conservative party and in Society as a whole than there is in the Labour party.
https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2019/11/10/the-wheels-have-come-off-the-anti-labour-smear-machine/
https://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2019/11/10/ordinary-jews-speak-out-for-labour/
trev
November 10, 2019 at 11:54 am
Somebody should tell Therese Coffey that when Jesus said “suffer the little children” he wasn’t being literal and did not want her to continue to condemn the children of the poor to suffer food poverty, for those whose parents are on Universal Credit, of poverty generally because of past cuts, caps and freezes.
Under the heading “Personal Life” Wikipedia records the following extremely sparse information:
“An avid football fan, she supports Liverpool F.C., and signed the Early Day Motion set down by Labour Liverpool Walton MP Steve Rotheram requesting a knighthood for Kenny Dalglish. She is a keen fan of the rock band Muse.”
Basically then no personal life whatsoever. No mention of a partner, family or friends; the woman appears to have no personal life beyond politics. Even Esther McVey had more of a personal life than Coffey. This makes Coffey potentially the most dangerous Secretary of State for Work and Pensions ever because the woman will be monomaniacally trying to make her mark at the expense of everything and everybody else; being a semi-detached member of the human race means that the pain and misery caused by her party’s mistaken social policies, which are now her responsibility, may well be beneath her notice even though hundreds of thousands of babies and children continue to slip into increasing poverty because of them.
This woman, despite her religious affiliation and pretension, may well turn out to be the worst boss of the DWP ever. This is undoubtedly a person who would be happy to sacrifice anybody and anything to climb the greasy pole of political advancement.
Landry
November 9, 2019 at 2:29 pm
@Landry , Trouble is they think they are right.That they are helping to improve society. People are going to get jobs and be better off.
Harry Carter
November 9, 2019 at 10:04 pm
“suffer the litte children to come unto me. what did jesus mean by the word suffer in biblical days?”
“Suffer” in this text from the 1611 Authorized Version is an obsolete usage of the word, which means “to permit.” … The disciples rebuked the people, but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”
in biblical days some words did not mean what they have meant in the past 77years at least(since i was born).. words get changed over years. you have only to look at some of the words today that have been “modernized”..(meaning turned around to mean something different. youngsters are mainly the ones that do it. they introduce new words to ourr language as well………. look at surnames…….. my maiden name was Binns. but going back thru the ages to 1600 it has been Binns/Binnes/Bins/Byns/Bynns/Bynnes. etc possibly more that i didnt discover while doin my family tree.likewise meaning of words. words spelled differently/ many times ive had “discussions” with my daughter when she has told me a word means something i had never come across. it meant something different to us oldies(sorry cant think of one at the moment. but i bet most older people have come across that. )
hugosmum70
November 10, 2019 at 12:46 pm
Thanks Trevor will check it out….
katrehman
November 11, 2019 at 5:51 am
UC is a joke, even the centre where I am doing my English, the staff got their own on views uc, and agree with us that is worst than job seekers allowance.
I been told by another place, work placements are a great way to get paid employment, I heard this from places like outfits action 4 employment, Reed in Partnership.
I have said to one place where I am getting help finding employment with disability would you work for less than the living wage per hour, she had no reply, because she knew I was right./ I can’t get sanction as I am there only voluntary and can pull out at any time.
myfinalusername
November 9, 2019 at 9:36 pm
whats the point of taking temp work these days? they lose entitlement to benefits then a few weeks later the boss fires him/her for no reason,they then ,like as not, have to declare themselves in need of benefits and are put on UC but have to wait 5 weeks before getting paid. temp n part time workers arent usually allowed holiday pay etc. and rarely get redundancy payments which would tie them over till thy do get paid and if the part time work is for a number of weeks only then the next part time work is same they will be in debt before they can get a job
hugosmum70
November 10, 2019 at 12:20 am
why should Corbyn resign? it was his charismatic speeches that brought in thousands of new members for Gods sake, best leader the lefts had since 1945
hugosmum70
November 10, 2019 at 12:23 am
I don’t think you will be saying things like this on the 13th November when Boris Johnson is returned as Prime Minister for four or five years and Labour has dozens of fewer MPs than it has now.
Wrasse
November 10, 2019 at 8:42 am
and what do you THINK we will all be saying eh? that johnson the better man?in your dreams. we will still believe corbyn is the better man.just as most did when milliband lost the election in his time as leader. we dont change sides like that. and corbyns been fighting in politics since his schooldays. what makers you think he wouldnt riose again ? anyway, we wont lose the election…….. somethings gotta be done… and unless. as in the past, the torys cheat. (just like trump did i am sure), it should be a win for labour.
hugosmum70
November 12, 2019 at 12:28 am
What you should be saying is that pretty much any Labour leader should have been able to defeat a liar and charlatan like Boris Johnson and that fact that Labour remains in opposition is because Jezza didn’t stand down and make way for a better person that more people would have voted for and won. This should have been the best chance for Labour to get back into power. The fact that it isn’t going to is because of Jeremy Corbyn would not step down and back a better and much more acceptable Labour leader take his place.
Wrasse
November 13, 2019 at 1:45 pm
Jeremy Corbyn has absolutely no reason to stand down, he hasn’t done anything wrong and he was democratically elected as Leader not once but twice! He is very popular with many people I speak to and in other cities such as Liverpool and in South Yorkshire etc. He is the type of leader many of us have been waiting for, for decades, and has turned the party around from being a neoliberal Blue Labour, Tory Lite, sell-out that no self respecting Socialist would vote for. Remember Blair’s New Deal and Benefit Sanctions? Remember not-so-Red Ed Miliband abstaining from voting against the Tory Welfare reforms? Disgraceful betrayal. Miliband’s Labour also actually supported the use of Benefit Sanctions, telling me in an email that they believed Sanctions were “an essential tool in helping people back to work”. Do you honestly think I was going to vote for that shit? Think again. I voted Green instead because of that. I can now vote Labour again after all these years because of Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell.
trev
November 13, 2019 at 4:29 pm
Remaining as a key member of the EU is the only way to ensure continued economic prosperity for the unemployed and the dung beetle population. The beasts of the field, birds of the air and insects of the earth have all had a vote on Brexit so it it high time we had a peoples’ vote on this very important issue close to the heart of the unemployed and the dung beetle..
Donna the Dung Beetle
November 13, 2019 at 2:52 pm
As an UNEMPLOYED person you should be voting for a Party that acts in the best interests of the UNEMPLOYED. If Labour/Corbyn/McDonnell are just going to continue on with the sanctions/provider shit, or worse, ramp it up, they can do one.
Hampstead Heath
November 13, 2019 at 5:17 pm
@ Hampstead Heath
I’m struggling to make sense of your rather incoherent comment. Which political party do you think will improve the lives of the unemployed if not Labour? McDonnell has already said they will do a trial introduction of Basic Income, and they have already announced that they will scrap Universal Credit and the Bedroom Tax. Presumably too Labour would adequately fund Councils thereby ending the requirement for Unemployed people to pay Council Tax.
trev
November 13, 2019 at 5:44 pm
Still a Devided country.
We'll never win
November 10, 2019 at 10:00 am
The future where we’re heading will be nothing but fake.
Nothing but fake news
November 10, 2019 at 10:06 am
Andrew Coates
November 10, 2019 at 1:08 pm
Ken Loach on the coming election:
https://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2019/11/10/double-down-news-video-ken-loach-explains-why-people-need-to-vote-labour/
trev
November 10, 2019 at 5:17 pm
Now that the DWP has moved the goalposts from a obligatory to a discretionary annual up-rating of working age benefits prepare for the next stage of the game. A move from obligatory to discretionary wages. It will be up to the employer to decide if their employees are worth their wages. There will be no guarantee nor expectation of receiving payment for your work.
Futureshock
November 11, 2019 at 9:03 am
is it mandatory or is it voluntary?? pmsl
superted's rotten teef
November 11, 2019 at 9:14 am
What’s this Labour obsession with the Corbyn/McDonnell ‘dream ticket’. No one in their right mind is going to vote for this pair of terrorist-supporting, Commies. Labour has other spokespersons within their ranks who come over well and give polished media presentations. Why don’t Labour throw these doddery old fuckers to the kerb and choose someone who is at least in with a fighting chance of winning an election to lead them? They are deluded if they think that through a continuation of Tory rule we are ever going to reach the stage where enough of the electorate are hacked off that they vote for a Bolshevik revolution.
Continual Tory rule just means more suffering and misery for the economically disadvantaged.
Michael Foot
November 11, 2019 at 10:35 am
Terrorist-supporting Commies…oh dear, you’re not very well informed, I should stop reading the Daily Mail and the Sun if I were you. Do some independent research, inform yourself of the true facts, and engage your brain. Stop being a silly Reactionary eejit repeating half-baked falsehoods.
trev
November 11, 2019 at 10:45 am
@ Trev – It is as sad fact that Corbyn has not always presented himself well to the general public. Why he has had these unfortunate meetings is not really clear. But none of this helps the overall image of Labour.
Now this Jewish business has started up again. with the election just days away.
Terry G.
November 11, 2019 at 11:08 am
@ Terry G.
What “Jewish business”? I take it you mean the Rightwing smear campaign intended to undermine Corbyn with false allegations of antisemitism.
trev
November 11, 2019 at 2:11 pm
@ Michael Foot – Sad to say I agree with some of this. Labour are not doing themselves any favours with the current Leadership. But saying that its too late now to do anything about it.
John
November 11, 2019 at 10:56 am
True. It’s no good having leaders who go off the deep end and offer their supporters everything they desire without taking much of the rest of the country with them and garnering enough support from millions of much less enthusiastic doubting Thomas’ and Thomasina’s to get Labour elected to power. Much better would be a sensible, intelligent, capable, realistic and more centrist leadership, not so ideologically pure, who had the broad appeal to take the party into government and, while in office for at least one parliament, do a massive amount to better the lives of the forgotten, disadvantaged and struggling without devoting and frittering away so much of their precious time, energy and billions upon billions of pounds of borrowed money to largely pointless showboating projects like closing down private schools (which will still abound on the continent and where the rich will send their children to be educated) and renationalising rather than better regulating large already privatised industries.
I know the faithful won’t be able to see this now nor probably after Labour’s coming defeat next month.
Corbyn and company are the best Christmas present Boris Johnson could have wished for.
Om the Multidimensional Man
November 11, 2019 at 11:00 am
Corbyn and Mcdonnald give us hope. something this country hasnt had in well over 10 years. and do you know something? that hope means more to us than anything right now. its all we have left.
hugosmum70
November 12, 2019 at 12:34 am
you say that last sentence as if its obligatory and to be expected because the disadvantaged are worthless… another tory supporter i suppose.
hugosmum70
November 12, 2019 at 12:31 am
Plenty of Tory supporters on here 😉
Laurie
November 12, 2019 at 10:19 am
it looks like it. one even took the nickname of my dead husband. no thought for others feelings at all. and what right have they to dash the only thing some people have got left… Hope. without hope in our lives we may as well lie down and die.
hugosmum70
November 12, 2019 at 3:36 pm
I support Boris 100%!
Old Tory
November 12, 2019 at 10:21 am
If only Tony would come back …
Labour Supporter
November 11, 2019 at 10:54 am
@ Labour Supporter
Blair wasn’t a Socialist, he was a neoliberal masquerading as a ‘Centrist’, who introduced mandatory back-to-work schemes and Benefit Sanctions. Not to mention the Iraq war!
trev
November 11, 2019 at 2:15 pm
tony? BLAIR? YOU ARE KIDDING. THATSD ONE SLIMY TOAD WE DONT WANT BACK. HES TOO RIGHT WING AND LOOK AT ALL THE CASH HES COME OUT OF IT WITH. DIDMNY GET THAT LEGALLY ILL BET.NO THANKS.
hugosmum70
November 12, 2019 at 12:23 am
You’re shouting dear. Now then, enough with your wittering and where’s me bloody tea, woman!
hugosdad70
November 12, 2019 at 7:30 am
your bloody teas in the dog
hugosmum70
November 12, 2019 at 3:37 pm
@hugosdad70… there are 2 words for you mate. initials are FO. hugos dad died 6 years ago. so yu can forget imitating him i dont take kindly to it. whoever you are the mods on here need to ban you for trying to impersonate a dead man.
hugosmum70
November 12, 2019 at 2:41 pm
One of the amusing things about elections is the way that the political parties start promising the moon, if only you vote for them. Now they are competing to see who can offer the most.
Grant
November 11, 2019 at 11:13 am
My verdict on the election ? Boris Johnson back in with 56 – 58 majority.
Pollster
November 11, 2019 at 11:17 am
Electoral Calculus predicts a Conservative majority of 90 with Labour losing 76 seats.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html
Om the Multidimensional Man
November 11, 2019 at 11:30 am
“There is, of course, a symmetry between himself (Boris Johnson) and Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn is far more honest, but harbours his own extravagant delusions. He (Corbyn) may yet prove to be the only possible Labour leader whom Johnson can defeat in a general election. If the opposition was led by anybody else, the Tories would be deservedly doomed, because we would all vote for it. As it is, the Johnson premiership could survive for three or four years, shambling from one embarrassment and debacle to another, of which Brexit may prove the least.”
Max Hastings, The Guardian, Mon 24 Jun 2019
Cassandra
November 11, 2019 at 11:27 am
Why can’t the Labour Party just do something about this anti-Semitism thing and solve it once and for all ?
All that happens is it just keeps coming back, It’s a gift to the Tories every time this happens.
Andrew Mason
November 11, 2019 at 11:31 am
Corbyn prefers decisions to be made democratically in a collegiate way by groups of peers rather than grasp the nettle personally. He likes committees, panels and boards to chew the fat and then decide on what should be done based on consensus, which is good when a variety of different people representing different points of view get their heads together, in a balanced way, but bad when the people on the committees, panels and boards are all cut from the same cloth. All his political life Corbyn has been a rabble-rouser and protester; a cheerleader rather than a leader. A real leader would have acted to stamp out anti-Semitism in his party by purging the party of anti-Semites ruthlessly and as completely as possible. Instead Corbyn defers to party apparatchiks and follow procedure which are hopelessly long-winded and slow, allowing the scandal to rumble on and on, soiling the party, possibly fatally.
What good would a man so feeble and indecisive be to the country in the case of a national/international emergency when he can’t even rid his own party of members peddling virulent anti-Semitism? A man who repeatedly suggested that NATO should be disbanded, massive cuts should be made to the UK’s armed forces and troops sacked, Great Britain’s nuclear deterrent should be put beyond use unilaterally and never supported any action by British troops at home or abroad on one single occasion as an MP.
Jeremy Corbyn as our next Prime Minister?
Boris Johnson remaining scrupulously truthful for the rest of his life is a more likely prospect.
The Gloomy Prophet
November 11, 2019 at 1:45 pm
@ Andrew Mason
There is no “antisemitism thing”, it’s a smear campaign by the pro-Israel Rightwing who seek to undermine Corbyn.
trev
November 11, 2019 at 1:49 pm
@Trev- ‘Shockingly, nearly half (47 percent) said they would “seriously consider” emigrating if Corbyn won. When it comes to perceptions about party leaders, 87 percent deemed the Labour leader to be antisemitic, 32 percent believe Nigel Farage to be antisemitic, with five percent saying the same of both Boris Johnson and Jo Swinson.’ Recent Poll in Jewish News Daily.
Labour have got to face facts – the issue of Israel is not going away.
Graham B.
November 11, 2019 at 3:54 pm
@ Graham B.
I don’t know where you get your “facts” from but that’s utter rubbish.
trev
November 11, 2019 at 4:48 pm
And the more people argue about Corbyn’s leadership, the less attention is paid to Labour policies.
If Labour can’t keep the focus off these negative distractions how can they win ?
Tom Sutton
November 11, 2019 at 11:52 am
In the end it comes down to this. Vote Conservative and get more of the same. Because the Tories won’t change their spots. Or vote Labour, even if you don’t like Corbyn’s leadership. Then we might see some change.
Common Sense Voter
November 11, 2019 at 11:56 am
That would be true if enough people were willing to give Corbyn’s Labour party a chance.
There isn’t.
End of story.
Yo-yo
November 11, 2019 at 1:19 pm
A lot of Rightwing muppets and Blairite Class Traitors commenting on this blog I see.
trev
November 11, 2019 at 1:57 pm
The truth is that many of us just want the Tories gone and don’t give a monkey’s about Jeremy Corbyn personally beyond the fact that while he swans about delighting his disciples, fans and followers, who cheer him to the rafters as he basks in closeted glory, outside that echo chamber of devotion and applause Corbyn continues to repel an extremely large number of the electorate, enough certainly to deny Labour any chance of securing enough support during a general election to form a government and wield power dooming us to further successive terms of turbo-charged right-wing Conservative government not because they have voted Conservative but because they didn’t have the confidence to vote Labour and so cast their vote for somebody else.
The fact that Boris Johnson looks set to remain Prime Minister will be, to a large part, Jeremy Corbyn’s fault.
Why? Because a better leader could have secured victory for the Labour party in the next general election.
I hope Jezza has the sense and decency to stand down during the aftermath of what is about to happen.
The man should accept responsibility for the coming disaster and fall on his own sword.
Evariste
November 11, 2019 at 4:40 pm
@Evariste , Totally agree. And he is surrounded by these Cult Of Corbyn people like @trev.
They won’t listen to sense. Because they have seen their saviour and they don’t want to listen.
Look at @trev’s response to a genuine question about anti-semitism by @Graham B
‘I don’t know where you get your facts from’ – total blank denial. The true sign of a convert and an extremist.
Yet if @trev had bothered to look in the Guardian before shouting, he night have seen the following article by
Jonathan Freedland dated last Saturday 9th November, on this very subject. Which links to the actual poll in the Jewish Daily News.
I quote here from the Guardian article – ‘ I’m referring to Britain’s Jews who, for the first time in their history, have concluded that someone hostile to them is on the brink of taking democratic power. Yes, of course, not every single British Jew holds that view. But the most recent poll found that 87% regard Corbyn as an antisemite, meaning an anti-Jewish racist.’
A serious problem for Jeremy Corbyn and a serious problem for the Labour Party.
John Halland
November 11, 2019 at 5:14 pm
@ John Halland
First of all I wasn’t “shouting”, that’s you exaggerating and misrepresenting my comment. Secondly, the Jewish News is a Rightwing pro-Israel publication. There are many Leftwing Jews and Jewish organizations that support Corbyn. Thirdly, I do not belong to any “cult”, I merely stand up for the truth and as a Socialist I support Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership of the Labour party that he has rescued from neoliberalism.
trev
November 11, 2019 at 5:36 pm
Here are some articles that might help to better explain the situation:
https://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2019/11/11/anti-semitism-smear-merchant-david-colliers-pro-tory-bias-exposed/
https://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2018/07/27/the-real-reason-the-jewish-establishment-are-attacking-labour-theyre-tories/
https://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.com/2019/08/another-tory-antisemite-to-be-widely.html?m=1
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/20/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-crucial-ally-in-fight-against-antisemitism
There are many more such articles if you really want to know and represent the truth, though somehow I think you are probably more interested in disseminating unfounded smears. (P.S. I am neither shouting nor expressing any anger 😊 )
trev
November 11, 2019 at 6:02 pm
And still the abuse continues:
https://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2019/11/11/ultra-zionists-blairites-and-tories-anti-semitic-abuse-of-labour-pro-palestinian-activist/
trev
November 11, 2019 at 6:31 pm
Isn’t Vox Political a blog belonging to Mike Sivier? Wasn’t he expelled from the Labour party for anti-Semitic views expressed on his blog at or soon after the time when Ken Livingstone got booted out after refusing to retract and apologise for anti-Semitic nonsense he spouted relating to supposedly the pro-Zionist views of Adolph Hitler or something equally ridiculous?
Moses
November 12, 2019 at 8:59 am
Mike has covered this in detail on his blog. He was expelled by a Kangaroo Court that didn’t even hear or take into account evidence of his innocence despite him winning legal cases against other people who had defamed him. It was a set up.
trev
November 12, 2019 at 9:05 am
Here are some links that might explain the situation:
https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2018/11/18/labours-kangaroo-court-issues-details-of-its-finding-against-me-and-they-dont-even-match-the-charge/
https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2018/10/28/at-last-hearing-set-for-vox-political-writer-to-defend-against-labours-false-accusation-of-anti-semitism/
https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2019/07/20/latest-anti-semitism-attack-on-labour-reveals-the-cruel-intention-behind-it/
If you require further clarification of this case I suggest you contact Mr. Sivier himself.
trev
November 12, 2019 at 9:57 am
i believe the case (Mike Sivier’s )is coming up in court either this week or at least in next 2/3 weeks. he is fighting the case. i have followed his blog for a couple of years or more now and never seen anything he has said thats antisemetic.(it is he who is taking her to court?) but its a woman with loads of cash who apparently has a vile mouth ,thinks she can say what she wants , will take anyone to court for the merest thing if she thinks she can make life difficult for someone.(cos she can) spoilt brat type….or so im led to believe. she smears anyone who goes against her im told. Mike is disabled with a disabled wife. he spends his time between his blog/ looking after his wife and helping to man a stall at ashton under lyme outside the job centre there. apparently one of the worst in Britain. he and others help people who have to attend there with food/clothing parcels. leaflets and advice. even going to tribunals with them. he got across with this woman who framed him for antisemetic remarks she reckons he made. the labout party kicked him out. in order to clear his name he crowdfunded and has enough to go to court and fight it now though she keeps moving the goalposts so the crowdfunding is going on n on. she is relentless. .
hugosmum70
November 12, 2019 at 5:13 pm
He writes really good stuff on British politics and – a reason to like him – he keeps a close eye on benefits issues.
I would say though he is not somebody to follow on the Middle East and all that’s involved there.
Andrew Coates
November 12, 2019 at 5:23 pm
To be fair, Mike Sivier rarely comments on the Middle East, he mostly blogs on British Politics and Benefits issues as you say.
trev
November 12, 2019 at 6:41 pm
this fact should surely stand good in his defence in his fight against the slurs hes being taken to court for?wouldnt you think? ro me it shows hes neither racist nor antisemetic.
hugosmum70
November 13, 2019 at 12:45 am
@Trev – This kind of angry denial of every point raised by commentators on here is not helping Jeremy Corbyn. It’s this idea of blind obedience, like some sort of East German throwback, that is so off-putting to many people. And with the new Brexit Party / Tory deal, Corbyn is going to need all the help he can get.
Malcolm Hartford
November 11, 2019 at 3:41 pm
You have misconstrued my comments as I haven’t expressed any anger, I save that for the Tory scum. The best way to help Corbyn and Labour is by showing your support for him/them surely, not attempting to undermine by posting endless negative comments and certainly not by repeating untruths and spreading malicious smears about “Commies”, “terrorists” and “antisemitism”.
trev
November 11, 2019 at 3:52 pm
@Trev- Why is it then that you will not consider or tolerate the slightest criticism of Jeremy Corbyn and his leadership style ? This is what people find so ridiculous about the whole Corbyn / Momentum movement.
There are serious problems that need to be addressed by Mr. Corbyn within the Labour Party.
Furious denial of everything is not a solution. Nor is branding fellow Comrades in Labour as ‘ClassTraitors’.
Just because they happen to have reservations about the current direction taken by the Labour Party.
I agree with Malcolm Hartford above, its like the old USSR where dissent was seen as treason.
Dave R.
November 11, 2019 at 4:04 pm
@ Dave R.
Because I don’t see anything wrong with Corbyn’s leadership, or with his Policies, or with the man personally. I do not believe that he warrants the type of abuse, lies and unfair criticism aimed at him by Rightwingers who cannot abide to see a Leftwing Socialist Labour Government. I and many others have waited a very long time for a leader like Jeremy Corbyn.
trev
November 11, 2019 at 4:54 pm
Greetings to our Fraternal Comrades in the United Kingdom. It is true that there has been no Russian interference in this election.
Oleg Noskov
November 11, 2019 at 4:13 pm
I’ll only believe that when the secret intelligence report on the threats posed to UK democracy by Russia, currently concealed by the Conservative government, is published. Where there’s smoke there’s tobacco.
Lord Seltzer
November 11, 2019 at 4:44 pm
Andrew Coates
November 11, 2019 at 4:47 pm
This makes a refreshing change considering that this is published on a Rightwing website:
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/my-grandmas-story-of-fleeing-the-nazis-inspires-me-to-vote-labour/
trev
November 11, 2019 at 8:07 pm
Britain’s biggest Jewish newspaper has pleaded with the public not to vote for Jeremy Corbyn, accusing him of “racist views”.
The Jewish Chronicle said that throughout his career Mr Corbyn had “allied with and supported antisemites” and accused him of having “actively impeded action against racists”.
In a front-page editorial directed at non-Jews, the newspaper highlighted a poll which found that nearly half of the Jewish community said they would seriously consider emigrating if Mr Corbyn became prime minister.
Larry T.
November 11, 2019 at 10:04 pm
The Jewish Chronicle is ultra-Rightwing Zionist pro-Israel, of course they don’t want Corbyn becoming PM !
https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2018/08/11/jewish-chronicle-editor-stephen-pollards-noxious-extreme-rightwing-views-beastrabbans-weblog/
https://ducksoap.wordpress.com/2018/08/02/do-stephen-pollards-political-views-give-a-clue-to-why-he-opposes-corbyn/
https://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2018/08/08/jewish-chronicle-editor-stephen-pollards-noxious-extreme-rightwing-views/
https://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2019/11/10/ordinary-jews-speak-out-for-labour/
trev
November 11, 2019 at 10:30 pm
Promises, promises for free jobs retraining for adults
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-50378666
There is this thing called a concession, a concession may i add the tories removed back in 2012/2013 which was in place to cover the cost of adult skills training for vocational qualifications.
Without this concession a simple years course expands to the tune of £3’500 plus.
Now if you want a trade your not going to learn to be competent in a single year (forget those flyby 6 months be a professional scam courses) meaning where are these unemployed or poorly paid people going to get the rest of the money to fund year 2 and 3 ?
Also a lot of courses run in the day (night college went the way of the dinosaur) meaning a lot of workers whose shifts/work are irregular will fail to attend which is important as low attendance DISQUALIFIES any student from a qualification even if they could pass it with flying colors. Further to that anyone on benefits is NOT ALLOWED to do a full time course (over 16 hours) and MUST SIGN A CONTRACT that stipulates the claimant WILL GIVE UP said course should they receive ANY OFFER OF EMPLOYMENT.
WANT A LAUGH – Lets say you just want to be a labourer. Gone are the days you take a test for around £50 and receive a green card. Now if your unfortunate to be working it costs anywhere between £300 to £500 and all that happened was government through HSE shoved in a one day course (actually only has enough material for half a day) and test/qualification before your permitted to be eligible to take the CSCS test. Contrary to so called professionals, sitting in a classroom for a day and receiving a bit of paper (qualification) prior to a CSCS test does not make you any SAFER on site or more importantly, COMPETENT.
Where in the labour manifesto do we cover those bridges and where does it begin to cover removing all the feckless courses (warehouse,retail,labourer,etc) that are occupations at threat that the tories over saturated that resulted in facilitating the massive rise of zero hour conditions, a rise in employers letting people go all because they physically or mentally cant perform at an employers ridiculous micro managed rate (masked figure by most being working for and paid by agencies).
Voting tory, labour, libdem, etc does not guarantee change for the better and people BETTER START reading carefully and between the lines otherwise your get caught with your pants down again.
Doug
November 12, 2019 at 7:36 am
Whoever is in power needs to stop all those B.S. ‘Back-to-Work’ courses run by the likes of Interserve etc. A bunch of people in their 50s/60s sat in a classroom doing ‘team building’ exercises and re-writing their CV over & over again under the guise of ’employability skills’, what a load of codswallop. At the end of which you get yet another Mickey Mouse certificate in Employability Skills or Effective Jobsearch. It’s a scam.
trev
November 12, 2019 at 8:47 am
Not forgetting the courses are ran probably by people 20 years younger than them. tell the 50+ years old what to do.
I been on three employability skills courses, just a tick boxing exercise, some have said we could run the course for you whilst you talk a back seat and still get your money.
myfinalusername
November 12, 2019 at 1:34 pm
Yep, they’re absolute bollocks. I’m one again at the moment, done it all before, mock interviews, how to fill application forms in, how to write a cover letter etc. plus discussions and written work about procedures in the work place, Rights & responsibilities of employers and employees, blah, blah, it’s as if you’ve never worked before, I’ve had loads of different jobs in factories, mills, building sites, offices, print shops etc. over the last 40+ years. As far as I can see these courses would only be of any use to someone who has literally just left school and never been in the work place, or perhaps to someone with learning difficulties. And practically everyone in the class has done these courses before more than once. It was only last year I did the same thing at Standguide on the Right Steps to Work course, now I’m at Interserve, and in 2016 I did the same thing at a company /Provider called Pinnacle People on a mandatory course called Skills Conditionality. Total horse shit the lot of it. But it never ends.
trev
November 12, 2019 at 3:09 pm
For all the good these blooming ‘courses’ do, it would be better to just fill the places with blow-up dolls, cardboard cut outs, shop mannequin or summat and leave the unemployed out of it.
Rachel
November 12, 2019 at 2:30 pm
no course the dwp send you on is ever mandatory, it only becomes mandatory once you sign the providers contract.
tho it is mandatory you attend the induction meeting but thats about it as you can refuse to sign any provider paperwork. 😉
superted
November 12, 2019 at 3:33 pm
Well the Skills Conditionally course I did in 2016 the Jobcentre told me it was mandatory and I would be Sanctioned if I didn’t do it. The one I’m on now with Interserve the jobcentre didn’t say that it was mandatory but despite my objections they went ahead and referred me anyway, then upon starting the course at the Induction the tutor told us all that “this course is compulsory”, adding that they will stop our money if we fail to attend. The previous course I just did, Right Steps to Work, the jobcentre never said anything about it being mandatory or otherwise, simply referred me without any discussion, and the tutor informed me that it was optional but I just went along with it anyway thinking that at least it would keep the jobcentre off my back for 12 months.
trev
November 12, 2019 at 3:47 pm
if providers dont get there contracts signed they dont get any money simple as that so of course they will say you will get sanctioned.
dwp own rules state you dont have to sign anything and if they try a sanction over it it is unlawful and gross misconduct.
and that is game over i wont be sent to any provider ever again i dont listen to there bs 🙂
superted
November 12, 2019 at 4:03 pm
I’m not doubting you superted but what about the Jobseekers Agreement or Claimant Commitment or whatever they call it. Doesn’t it say something about not refusing any offers of help that your adviser deems useful such as training courses etc. They could construe it has “help” to find work from their point of view, or is it not legally binding?
trev
November 12, 2019 at 4:56 pm
tthe cc is not a legal binding contract contract the only thing you have to do is look and apply for work anything else is just a expectation.
if providers require a signed contract for funding purposes to be able to participate that is not my problem and buy law i am not required to enter in to contacts without my permission as it is contract law and contracts must be signed of free will and not under threats of sanctions.
thus you can not be mandated to do anything that you do not want to do.
i never done the first work programme or anything else since as i will not sign anything 😉
superted
November 12, 2019 at 5:27 pm
@trev – Very true. Most of these courses are just a complete waste of time. We had one at the Jobcentre a couple of years ago. A motivation course where people had to go to the local country park. I kid you not. Supervised by Park Rangers. For three days. At the end of it they got a certificate for planning and undertaking a short walk Level 2. And had learnt to identify different trees. Gained respect for wildlife and the environment. And learnt the Country Code. I know someone who went on this, and he said it was like being trapped in a Scout Camp for 3 days.
Rob
November 12, 2019 at 6:00 pm
https://courses.glosglobal.net/CourseDetailsView.asp?CODE=GL0052819&NAME=Bath+Bombs&ID1=2500&ID2=52819&ID3=1
Treat yourself, family or friends to a luxurious bath bomb – not just for the ladies – men like them too. Keep it plain & simple or add special touches with colour, glitter, dried petals.
just think of all the job offers you will get with doing that they even had a mindful colouring course as well.
there charging £350 to make a item that costs less than a pound pmsl
superted
November 12, 2019 at 6:37 pm
What the? Unfortunately I don’t have a bath in my flat, only a shower.
trev
November 12, 2019 at 6:45 pm
they wont care if you have a bath or not all there interested in is there money and getting ur sig on there contract to turn you in to a profit unit.
they have no interest in helping anyone in to paid work as it is bad for business.
all they care about is how much can they screw out of the esf and sfa for the most amount of profit possible.
note the thumb covering there name and they pasted all of those on there face book page so so much with not sharing to 3rd party company’s.
superted
November 12, 2019 at 7:02 pm
I got a handful of Mickey Mouse certificates years ago on New Deal, including one in “Effective Time Management”, the entire (single) lesson consisted of an oldish chap with a flip-chart teaching us to prioritize things to do by writing them in a list. Who’d have thought? He wrote the word “KISS” on his flip-chart and said “Keep it short son”. He confided in us that he was self-employed and was paid £250 for each lesson he delivered, and that must have been about 15 years ago in the days of New Labour.
trev
November 12, 2019 at 7:59 pm
Thought you would post this one!
Compulsery jobs which can’t be done by robots, – millions of cleaners and carers.
some choice
November 12, 2019 at 9:04 am
Today I finished a 6 day level 1 customer service course at ctskills (poverty pimp) in Derbyshire, I was told by the tutor that if I passed the course I will get a guaranteed job interview in a local hotel for a housekeeping position, anyway I passed the course and asked when will I get my interview, tutor said he had no idea, I doubt if there was even a job in the first place so it looks like the pimps are going to be getting their “funding” by fraudulent means again c___s I’m fuming.
Violet
November 12, 2019 at 7:57 pm
they will tell you anything to get there contracts signed one place i went to had a agency company in the same building also ran buy them and after my 6 month stint was promised a factory job with the agency.
at the end of the 6 months i did get to see one of there work agents and i was told i would not pass a crb check and i had no recent work experience and no accredited skills that applied to any work they had available.
the piece of paper i had for completing the 6 month course was useless and that was 15 years ago same old crap delivered buy a different model shovel.
superted
November 12, 2019 at 8:10 pm
These bullshit provider ain’t going anywhere. They seem to spring up like mushrooms.
Fungi
November 12, 2019 at 9:25 am
I am currently at one, who are not abusing the system, there were part of the old work programme as a sub contractor, so got the hard to help,
myfinalusername
November 12, 2019 at 1:36 pm
Ted, I’m going to leave it for a couple of weeks and if I don’t get my interview I will be reporting them for fraud… 😉
Violet
November 12, 2019 at 8:17 pm
i doubt you will get anywhere with that as you signed there contract for the course they was offering even tho you were forced buy the jcp via the cc, now that is fraud.
if they are funded buy the sfa then id report it there as thats where there money comes from and all they care about.
if you keep signing providers contracts the dwp will never stop sending you to them even if it is the same thing over and over again.
best option is to not sign them in the first place and if the coach try to sanction you for it like mine did they wont have a job after the tribunal.
and then the word provider will never come up again 😉
superted
November 12, 2019 at 8:32 pm
Yes Trevor I would have to agree the Jewish chronicle is the Jewish version of the Daily Mail and revolting right wing and zionist!
katrehman
November 12, 2019 at 9:51 am
The editor, Stephen Pollard, has some extreme Right wing views including a glowing admiration of Iain Duncan Smith and a belief in the total privatization of the NHS. Their allegations of antisemitism against Labour are entirely Political.
trev
November 12, 2019 at 10:03 am
Absolutely true, he wrote this,
Brexit: It’s a wonderful day for Britain – and its Jews.
JC editor Stephen Pollard on the historic vote to quit the EU.
https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/brexit-it-s-a-wonderful-day-for-britain-and-its-jews-1.59563
Andrew Coates
November 12, 2019 at 11:17 am
I was told if I didn’t sign the pimps paper work I will get sanctioned the fat cow put it on my claimant commitment AGAIN.
Violet
November 12, 2019 at 8:39 pm
I was told if I didn’t sign the pimps paper work I will get sanctioned the fat cow put it on my claimant commitment AGAIN.
It is not a mandatory requirement for claimants to fill in or sign any provider
forms or documents when participating in a provider led mandatory activity or
programme.
Because it is not mandatory, there is no recorded data held detailing any
action DWP or a provider can take against those who have declined to sign
said forms or documents.
Participants are required to do all they reasonably can to give themselves the
best chance of finding work. Should a participant decline to sign the provider’s
forms, this does not mean that they do not have to participate in the
programme. The referral letter given to a participant by Jobcentre Plus details
the potential consequences for failing to participate as required.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/310933/response/760040/attach/html/3/FOI%20152%20Rev.pdf.html
that is all you need to win a tribunal over this you can not participate if the provider throws you out the building because they wont get any funding because you wont sign there esf funding contract it is not your problem.
providers are 3rd party company’s for profit and nothing to do with the dwp or its funding.
your work coach is in breach of the dwp own rules and regs complicit in fraud getting providers contracts signed which is also a breach of the esf funding rules and maladministration and gross misconduct in a public office.
a cc is not a legal contract anything on it bar looking and applying for work is a expectation like the 35hr job search.
superted
November 12, 2019 at 8:58 pm
The trouble with Corbyn is that his supporters don’t seem to realise that it isn’t just about them. Labour cannot secure a victory without winning the trust and confidence of millions of uncommitted people, outside of their circle, enough to garner their votes in a general election. Without doing this the outcome is and can only ever be repeated defeat.
Bronco Colorado
November 12, 2019 at 9:07 am
It will be the same shit for the unemployed regardless of who gets in. Probably slightly worse under Labour. Labour have got form too, Labour has promised a ‘Jobs Guarantee’ for the unemployed. The Jobcentre and all its ills will still be there. The ‘provider’ bastards will still be there. The local councils will be even more involved than they are at present. When you skim all the rhetoric off the top no matter what party is in power it is the same old shit effluent in the glass for the unemployed.
Rodeo Rider
November 12, 2019 at 9:21 am
@Rodeo Rider – that is strangely true. It’s amazing how with the election a few weeks away Labour have started criticising Universal Credit. After years of disinterest. Now they are on about Basic Income.
And all we hear from apostles of Corbyn like @trev is the same all stuff about believing in their glorious leader.
Sam Harvey
November 12, 2019 at 11:40 am
@Bronco Colorado: Agree with you 100%. Labour don’t seem to realise that they are damaging their chances of winning with such an unpopular and divisive leader. Most of his own MPs want him out.
But he still sits there like an unwanted barnacle on a rock. When will Labour learn that the British Public will not vote for a leader just because the Labour Party thinks they should ? Christ Almighty didn’t we have enough of this with Kinnock and Miliband ?
Tom Mortimer
November 12, 2019 at 11:46 am
When the end comes, I hope Comrades in the Party will remember what we tried to say.
Stay on the path of moderation. #Progress
Dave B.
November 12, 2019 at 11:51 am
Trouble is Dave B. you say “moderation” but what you really mean is neoliberalism. Corbyn is a Centrist in the truest sense of the word. None of his Policies are actually Radical, it’s just that so-called ‘Centrists’ have moved so far to the Right that the Labour party became top-heavy with them and far removed from being a Socialist party. Corbyn and McDonnell have redressed that balance by shifting it back to the true Centre.
trev
November 12, 2019 at 12:24 pm
Trouble is that too small a section of the public are willing to buy into that vision and the result is a political party that will remain forever out of power. Labour are not only not going to win the election in a month’s time the party is going to LOSE seats in December. It will be impossible to spin that as success or blame Brexit for the failure. What then? Yarns about one more push and we’re there? One more try and we’ll be in power? One more go and we’ll get rid of the Tories for good? Lot’s of navel gazing while the people that Labour should be helping as a government with political power suffer and turn away from a powerless political party on the slide towards a pressure group? Who and what will the Corbynistas blame when Labour comes to ruin under an inadequate leader they have lionised and worship?
Marlowe Christopher
November 12, 2019 at 3:00 pm
But Corbyn isn’t an “inadequate leader”, he’s a very good one, and if Labour comes to ruin it certainly won’t be his fault, it will be the fault of the nay-sayers , the Rightwing Blairites who constantly seek to undermine, the Rightwing press and their lies and smear campaigns, some of which have been instigated by British Intelligence in league with the Institute for Statecraft. The Establishment is essentially very Rightwing and will stop at nothing to prevent a Leftwing Socialist government.
trev
November 12, 2019 at 3:16 pm
@ trev
It’s the great British public, in their millions no less, who vote for MPs and they are not puppets as easily swayed by the media and influenced by the establishment as you seem to believe. Anyway, mate, chin up. Jezza is beginning to gain support and are now only six points behind the Tories in at least one recent poll!
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/uk-election-polls-boris-johnsons-lead-over-jeremy-corbyn-narrows-as-labour-makes-gains-a4285246.html
Something to put a smile on your face and buck up up a bit.
I wouldn’t put it past Boris Johnson to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Wide Buoy
November 12, 2019 at 4:10 pm
Be very wary of which polls you trust, I think Labour are probably ahead as Corbyn is hugely popular.
Just heard on the news that hackers have attacked Labour party servers, just shows they are running scared now, but who is responsible, British Intelligence? Mossad? Or the Russians? There are certain factions who have a lot to lose when Labour wins the election.
trev
November 12, 2019 at 4:24 pm
Just to remind people of who the real enemy is (and even she could not stand Bunga Bunga Boris):
June this year:
Esther McVey (Minister for Work and Pensions not long ago…) claimed £8,750 in expenses for personal photographer
Exclusive: Tory leadership hopeful spent thousands of pounds of taxpayers’ money in just two years.
The Conservative leadership hopeful Esther McVey has spent thousands of pounds of taxpayers’ money claiming for a personal photographer on expenses.
The MP has submitted claims worth £8,750 for the services of the photographer and PR man Jonathan Farber in just two years, according to an analysis of data held by the expenses watchdog. McVey – whose website is adorned with photographs of herself – hired Farber, an ex-Tory councillor in her constituency in Cheshire.
One receipt obtained using freedom of information laws from May 2018 shows that Farber invoiced McVey £750 for five hours’ work for two shoots including “edits, image processing and travel time”.
One of the shoots featured McVey, who was a broadcaster and businesswoman before entering politics, showing her support for paddle boarders joining the fight against plastic waste. The other was for a Women’s Institute shoot and talk. The invoice is from “Jonathan Farber photo, video & consultancy”, and states McVey is being billed for “comms consultancy”, adding: “Fixed rate retained professional photo, video and communications services.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/12/esther-mcvey-expensed-thousands-of-pounds-for-personal-photographer?CMP=share_btn_tw
Andrew Coates
November 12, 2019 at 12:16 pm
Any “candid” photos of the Evil Queen? Topless? Full frontal? Just wondering.
Onan Bogomil
November 12, 2019 at 4:11 pm
Urrgh, steady on, I’m eating my dinner
trev
November 12, 2019 at 4:58 pm
It’s just like the Parliamentary Expenses scandal. That was only discovered by accident.
In reality generations of MPs had been carrying on with this stuff for years and years.
Duck Houses, Moat Cleaning, Tennis Courts, Horse Stabling etc.etc.
It was an accepted perk of the job, which the public didn’t really know anything about.
Jeff Smith
November 12, 2019 at 5:34 pm
Andrew Coates
November 12, 2019 at 4:19 pm
Lot of criticism of Jeremy Corbyn on here. But end of the day it’s him or Boris Johnson. Unless one or other of them has to make a deal with the LibDems. The way the Welsh and Scottish are pushing for independence, next time round it might just be an English election.
Tom Sutton
November 12, 2019 at 5:41 pm
I’m hoping for another hung parliament leading to a people’s vote, as the only way to finally settle Brexit with parliament being log-jammed, and eventually revocation or Article 50 with the UK remaining a key member of the European Union.
Ingram Bright
November 13, 2019 at 1:35 pm
We have not hacked even a single British computer. This is all untrue and typical of the western lackey press.
Russian Institute Of Cyber Security
Colonel General Ilya Kazakov RICS
November 12, 2019 at 6:44 pm
Highly recommended . An entire site devoted to Tory deception. https://boris-johnson-lies.com
Jack Sprat
November 12, 2019 at 9:33 pm
Et Tu Brute ? John Crace launches another salvo against Jeremy Corbyn in the Guardian.
‘ Now he could barely keep his eyes open as he introduced a showcase programme for lifelong education that should be at the heart of his party’s manifesto. It was almost as if he was punch-drunk. Years of being the underdog, of disproving the doubters, of always bouncing back, have finally taken their toll. Now it looked as if he had had enough.
This was Corbyn at his most downbeat, his voice seldom rising above a mumble. “It makes me angry that some schools are closed on a Friday,” he said. Only he didn’t sound angry at all. Rather, he just sounded a bit fed up.’
Ken
November 12, 2019 at 9:43 pm
Ah well, I think he has a go at all of them doesn’t he, Boris, Theresa May(bot), Farage, anyone is fair game for Crace.
trev
November 12, 2019 at 10:24 pm
he is probably knackered poor bloke.he covers more miles talking to people, giving speeches etc thabn any other MP i know and travelling on its own is bad enough.give the man a break.
hugosmum70
November 13, 2019 at 5:32 pm
Boris hard at ‘work’:
Andrew Coates
November 13, 2019 at 12:22 pm