Ipswich Unemployed Action.

Campaigning for Unemployed Rights.

Job Centre Closures.

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Job Centre closures in Scotland were announced a few months ago.


Today (Welfare Weekly):

The Scottish National Party has condemned Scottish Secretary David Mundell for ‘failing to lift a finger’ to prevent the UK Government from shutting half of the job centres in Glasgow, as the campaign against closures gathers pace.

A consultation on closing 8 of the city’s 16 job centres – first revealed last month – comes to a close at the end of January. The SNP’s MPs, MSPs and councillors in Glasgow are encouraging the public to sign a petition against the plans.

A cross-party letter to David Mundell asking the Scottish Secretary to back the campaign – whose signatories include all of Glasgow’s MPs and MSPs except the two Conservative MSPs – has gone unanswered.

Repeatedly pressed on the issue in the House of Commons this week, Mr Mundell failed to give any commitment to lobby the DWP to halt the closures, and could only say that he hoped that they would not impact on service users.

The SNP’s Westminster leader Angus Robertson called David Mundell’s failure to speak out against the closures a “disgraceful dereliction of duty” – and questioned what the purpose of the Scottish Secretary was if not to speak up for Scotland at the Cabinet table.

Commenting Angus Robertson MP said: “Tory plans to close half of Glasgow’s jobcentres are wrong-headed and completely counterproductive – and their flawed consultation process only adds insult to injury.

“The SNP has been actively opposing this issue – and just this week we led debates in both the House of Commons and the Scottish Parliament – but our attempts to get the Scottish Secretary to join us in calling on the DWP to halt these plans have fallen on deaf ears.

“In fact, there is no evidence that David Mundell has so much as lifted a finger to prevent these closures – or even soften the blow.

“Given the potentially devastating effect that these closures will have on some very vulnerable people in Glasgow, his failure to speak out is frankly a disgraceful dereliction of duty.

“It is completely unacceptable that Glasgow, with one of the highest unemployment rates in the country, is set to be the first part of the UK to have job centre closures imposed on it – and at a disproportionately high level.

“We will not accept being dragged back to the bad old days of Tory governments – with no mandate north of the border – treating Scotland as a guinea pig for their unpopular policies and doing anything they want.

“But there is also a wider issue here. If Mr Mundell has – as is evident – done so little to fight Scotland’s corner on the issue of job centre closures, then what hope do we have that he has done anything behind the scenes to keep Scotland in the single market as part of the Brexit negotiations?

“The Scottish Secretary should be fighting for Scotland’s interests in Cabinet – not the other way around – and if Mr Mundell is unwilling to do that, then you have to wonder what the point is in there being a Scottish Secretary.”

This is an official press release from the Scottish National Party (SNP). Opinions are those of the author only.


DWP/MB/064/16 gave details of DWP’s announcement on 7 December of its proposals to close 50% of the job centres in Glasgow, as part of DWP’s People and Location Programme. Since then the GEC has been working closely with the local branches in Glasgow to build the campaign against these closures.

Some of the campaigning activities that the GEC and local reps have been involved in include:

  • Members meetings at each site on the day of the announcement with a GEC member or Full time officer present on every site threatened with closure
  • Briefing local press and radio that delivered same day coverage of the announcement in the Daily Record and other media outlets in Scotland
  • Sustained press interest in this story ensuring there is ongoing press coverage on the proposed closures.
  • Meeting and briefing local Glasgow MPs, resulting in a question being put at Prime minister’s questions on the day of the closure announcement. Also briefing the shadow Labour minister on the closures.
  • Public meetings being held in locations close to the threatened job centres
  • Organising a city wide public meeting on the closures
  • A full debate on the closures in the House of Commons, called by the chair of the PCS Parliamentary Group, SNP MP Chris Stephens and a meeting between the government minister and the Glasgow MPs.
  • Hold further meetings with members on the sites threatened with closure to get their feedback and to discuss the next steps.

PCS has pressed hard for a meeting with DWP management where we will continue to fight to protect members’ jobs and conditions and to make the case for expanding local job centre provision not closing it. DWP have agreed to further discussions with us on 10th January. No further announcements of the future of DWP offices will be made in the meantime.

The GEC is also working with the Glasgow branches on preparing a detailed response to the consultation on the proposed closures.

Further announcements of closures in other parts of the country are still expected. The GEC will work closely with branches and regions in protecting our members and defending services to the public, both on announcements that have already been made and on ones still to come.


Written by Andrew Coates

January 22, 2017 at 11:54 am

119 Responses

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  1. As always in these cases – follow the money.

    a] who wins – i.e. makes money from this?
    b] who losses – i.e. doesn’t make money from this?
    c] looking at a] and b], what are the importance of the people on both sides, ie. ability to influence matters
    d] what overt/covert in the background or out in the open
    e] how much money is being bunged around
    f] if rich(power), have say – if poor, no say

    The local council is being very quite so you know its dodgy stuff


    January 22, 2017 at 1:37 pm

    • One thing I learned in government is if I wanted to know an answer to a question was to follow the money – FOLLOW THE MONEY!

      Jesse Ventura - Former Governor of California, Former Navy Seal, Ex-Professional Wrestler and Media Personality

      January 22, 2017 at 2:04 pm

      • Hey, Jesse.

        You were the 38th Governor of Minnesota not California – that was me you big girl’s blouse.

        Even if you ain’t got time to bleed yu oughta think before you write or speak.


        I shit ’em.

        Arnold Alois Schwarzenegger, 38th Governor of California, cock of the walk and big cheese

        January 22, 2017 at 4:16 pm

      • And you were never a Navy SEAL either you big jesse – you failed your basic frogman training!

        Bill Salisbury - Attorney (San Diego), Former Navy SEAL Officer

        January 22, 2017 at 4:27 pm

  2. The aim as broadcast quite clearly from government from the outset of the reform was to make welfare a totally online affair, the exact same thing they are doing with tax. By allowing a machine/s to do the job, the government saves on paying employees,for buildings,utilities costs,insurance,security,etc.

    The aim is to have the least amount of buildings purely for the initial supplying documents/proof stage although this itself is being discussed as also being removed if its legally possible.

    Its been known since 2010 so its not just Scottish Secretary David Mundell who hasn’t acted as what did the The Scottish National Party, any party for that fact do back then ?


    January 22, 2017 at 1:53 pm

    • Like when you apply for a driving licence you can just use your passport photo… a machine then prints the licence, shoves it in an envelope and posts it. No human intervention involved. This is the gov model and the way the DWP/jobcentre is headed as in verifying identities using passport/driving licence to verify data do no need to visit and office to hand in documents. And couple this with on-line signing and an ‘intelligent’ algorithm built-in to universal jobmatch to check job-search (and issue sanctions automatically).

      This will save the government an absolute fortune in terms of savings through staff, buildings, infrastructure, insurance, ‘customer care officers’ (security guards). Of course it will result in massive jobs losses across the DWP/Jobcentre network; a lot of well-paid cushy jobs are for the chop. Is is really the cost of paying staff, maintaining buildings just for the pleasure of seeing a claimant reduced to tears as they are sanctioned face-to-face? Every other aspect of ‘gov’ is heading in this direction, why would the DWP/Jobcentre be any different?

      Automated 'Decision Maker'

      January 22, 2017 at 2:31 pm

    • Anybody who thinks that anyone will still be attending a ‘jobcentre’ to ‘sign-on’ in the year 10,000 AD is smoking something 😉

      FX 10,000 AD

      January 22, 2017 at 2:41 pm

      • .. ‘doug’? 😉

        FX 10,000 AD

        January 22, 2017 at 2:42 pm

      • I don’t know about that, sport. Based on an ever escalating pension age the government could well raise the retirement age to 11,000 or something just to catch us out.


        January 23, 2017 at 12:06 pm

  3. My interest in posting is this is that it reminds me of when they began to close Magistrates courts, it was the beginning of a process that led, for example (2016), to this:

    Suffolk will be left with one magistrates’ court as Ministry of Justice confirms Bury St Edmunds and Lowestoft closures.(EADT February 2016)

    These closures do not correspond to the needs of claimants, and are not going to be reversed when unemployment rises again.

    These closures are not made with any consideration of how hard it may be to get to the Jobcentres.

    They are a “rationalisation” in the light of austerity, and will make it harder for people to get access to the benefits they need to live on.

    Andrew Coates

    January 22, 2017 at 3:50 pm

    • I can see the local jobcentre here closing, the amount of DWP employees no longer there. the next nearest JC is 6.9 miles away, train if you can afford it, then there is the price of tickets going up, cycle if your able to, or it’s a case of walking. I expect to see people walking.

      GOV won’t mind people who can’t make a claim of course, the way things are.

      news seeker

      January 22, 2017 at 6:38 pm

      • “see many people walking”

        news seeker

        January 22, 2017 at 6:47 pm

      • Then there are all those people with disabilities being made fit for work. how much worse can it get , one can say but then we know things will get worse.

        news seeker

        January 22, 2017 at 7:17 pm

      • That’s bad. People are still visiting the Jobcentre in their sixties, not always in the best of health. How could it be right to make a lady in her sixties walk miles to a Jobcentre, for no good reason, sometimes in wind, rain and snow? That’s really, really bad. Really bad and totally unreasonable.

        Broken Toy

        January 25, 2017 at 10:16 am

      • What happens when we get an icy winter and claimants have to walk for miles on icy pavements? Are the jobcentre secretly hoping that they will fall over, hit their heads on the icy, cold concrete and get killed… representing ever greater saving the the Exchequer and all that…


        January 25, 2017 at 11:07 am

  4. Isn’t closing Jobcentres, sacking staff, and managing benefits remotely a major part of the plan and roll out of Universal Credit? With people having to claim and manage their entitlements online, with their human contact with advisors done online or on the phone rather than seeing somebody locally?

    Broken Toy

    January 22, 2017 at 4:20 pm

    • Broken Toy

      The plan was to get shot of around 2 thirds of staff and place the remaining staff in call centers. I only recently last year saw an advert for positions to apply for online work coaches so we can see its closer to being rolled out sooner rather than later.


      January 23, 2017 at 10:47 am

      • Things is, Doug, will all those affected really have the necessary internet access? And for those using public wi-fi, like the hotspots in Jobcentres, how long will it be before people get hacked and ripped off. Some girl I was sitting beside in the Jobcentre the other week, using Windows 10, hadn’t even turned off network discovery and so her PC, shared folders and what not could be available to anybody on that network. This “digital by default” thing for everybody I always considered fanciful partly because of a lack of knowledge and experience amongst those new to IT, but more because of a personal lack of equipment and an ISP. I just can’t ever see this ever going to be possible for hundreds of thousands of people.

        Broken Toy

        January 23, 2017 at 12:13 pm

      • Yeah, but how many ‘ordinary’ Windows 10 users are going to go into System and Security > Network and Internet > Network and Sharing > Advanced Settings > Change Adapter Settings > Local Area Connections > Internet Protocol Version 4 (TCP/IPv4) > Properties > Alternate Configuration to turn off “Network Discovery”. 🙂 Nobody unless they are a “tecky”. Give this girl a break!

        Bill Gates

        January 23, 2017 at 12:30 pm

      • Spot on bill gates as most don’t know one end from the other when we talk proper understanding of an OS.

        By default windows 10 uses private which while having network discovery on is preset not to share file or printer. Public has discovery off which bars file and or printer also. All network discovery does is have you visible. In itself it cannot allow file or printer access. Now it could be a third party app/programme already installed or one recently by user installed that changed this. You cant rule out a bug but this is less likely then the first liable cause.

        Ive said many a time a PC/smart device should require a license like a car as it can be incredibly detrimental to the owner,user and even contacts but no one wants to know as they all think because they can press a button and read what a box says that they know how it all works. An OS is a sophisticated and extremely hard piece of software to grasp that can do anything if instructed. I grew up with these systems and have decades of experience from BASIC language programming,fortran, to C++ to name but a few and it takes a considerable amount of time to learn and perfect.

        Today’s programmers aren’t taught old school anymore as it take time and that’s why so many programs crash and have bugs.

        Its a classic case of running before we can walk and why its only getting worse.


        January 23, 2017 at 1:10 pm

      • Yeah doug your post has brought back the memories 🙂 Back in the day we programmed in raw machine code on green screen monitors. Then some clown invented ‘object-orientated’ programming. Now it’s all modular, painting-by-numbers that the ‘computer-whizzes’ of today who mistakenly think they are oh, so smart call ‘programming’. Programming, my arse! The ‘computer whizzes’ of today couldn’t programme their way out of a paper-bag!

        Old School Programmer

        January 23, 2017 at 1:45 pm

      • More like it…

        Old School Programmer

        January 23, 2017 at 1:48 pm

  5. The risk is to other Jobcentres up and down the country will try and justify their own existence.We have already heard damaging recordings of staff conduct attitudes scheming and management turning the other way. More desperate people come the more dangerous they can be taking more and more stupid risks that will fall foul of the legal process.

    Forget about PCS or anything to do with that place they see people all the same dealt with threats bullying and intimidation. GP’s the EU and The House Of Lords have all received the same so its not just the unemployed although these have seen the worst.

    Its a sad story of how the country has sunk to and what it has become.Similarly in the US protests have been seen the product of manipulation playing on fears telling people what they want to hear.The UK’s greatest export now is trouble and extremism.


    January 22, 2017 at 5:10 pm

  6. The government is due to publish the latest annual rough sleeping statistics for England next Wednesday.

    Only the true numbers of people out in the cold won’t be known.

    Huge cuts to homelessness services will trigger a surge in the number of people forced to sleep on the streets and pile more pressure on hard-pressed NHS and social care services, charities have said.

    Several councils are preparing to axe housing support services, including hostel beds, refuges and sheltered housing, as they struggle to meet the demands of a fresh round of multimillion-pound budget cuts from April.


    news seeker

    January 22, 2017 at 6:14 pm

  7. rainbowwarriorlizzie

    January 22, 2017 at 6:16 pm

  8. What will happen to the staff at these Jobcentres, I wonder. Will they be signing on at the remaining Jobcentres with some of their former clients?

    jj joop

    January 22, 2017 at 6:44 pm

    • jj joop

      its going to be a re-run of what’s going to happen to 32,000 WP staff – on the other side of the desk being told to apply for any job going – even if they don’t exist… though I suspect that the telling will be automated by then will be by a Computerised voice…


      January 22, 2017 at 7:11 pm

    • They will be fighting each other for their jobs and trying to out do others by sanctioning as many people as they can.

      news seeker

      January 22, 2017 at 7:11 pm

      • Yup. “Welcome to the JC/WP Hunger Games. May the odds forever be in your favour.” Expect is will be fought with computers instead of spears.

        Katniss Everdeen

        January 22, 2017 at 7:48 pm

      • I want the JC/WP Hunger Games to stir up a revolution. Bring us your sanction tally Cock Roach! Or will I have you executed here and now?

        President Coriolanus Snow

        January 22, 2017 at 7:56 pm

    • Yup. “Welcome to the JC/WP Hunger Games. May the odds forever be in your favour.” Expect it will be fought with computers instead of spears.

      Katniss Everdeen

      January 22, 2017 at 7:48 pm

      • We are with you, Mockingjay! Even though your adventure seems to be copied from Japan’s Battle Royal!

        Gale Hawthorne

        January 23, 2017 at 10:18 am

    • What they call ”out of area redeployment to other departments” I expect


      January 24, 2017 at 11:33 am

  9. Universal Credit & The Circle Of Misery

    I know someone on Universal Credit who will be calling in to Boots on Monday, W.H.Smith on Tuesday, Tesco on Wednesday, Aldi on Thursday, and Littlewoods on Friday.
    He has been doing the same thing for the past six months. Taking in his Jobcentre-approved CV and asking to see the manager. He must ask them if they have any vacancies, ( of any type, and at any conditions, part-time or zero hours) and if he can leave them a copy of his CV.

    It is important that he asks for work in the correct way, and that he always leaves a copy of his CV.
    His Work Coach will telephone a random selection of two or three of these places to confirm that this has been done, and that he didn’t try and be clever and just make it look as if he was looking for full-time work. Also the Work Coach will ask if the claimant seemed motivated. As if he really wanted to work. Did he make a good impression ?

    These employers have seen him and his CV again and again. Indeed they know when he will be visiting next to ask for work. On the same day as last week, the week before, and all the weeks before that. And, unless his Work Coach changes the timetable, they will be seeing him again. Next week, the week after, and the week after that. Unless he gets a job of course.

    Jeff Smith

    January 22, 2017 at 10:05 pm

    • What happens if an employer refuses to check to see if a CV has been delivered (most are probably binned immediately) or remembers whether or not some stranger has inquired about work when supposedly contacted by the DWP? Unless your friend is applying for vacancies actually notified to his Jobcentre I really don’t see how any DWP employee could possibly be telephoning employers on spec to pump them for info about the conduct of particular individuals; if I was an employer and was continually being bothered by the DWP to report about some oddbod who may, or may not, have tapped me up about work, I would get very fed up, put a flea in their ear, and tell them that I had better things to do than do their job for them.

      I think your friend is making this stuff up.

      Bullshit Detector

      January 23, 2017 at 9:06 am

    • Boots, aldi and tesco all say you have to go online to apply for a position like all the others so it would be pointless attempting to drop a CV in. While a local manager will interview someone who has applied for a particular position at that branch, its actually HQ that decides who that person is through online applications and online tests.

      Its fruitless to walk the streets besides small businesses and even then a claimant should trade the high street for trading estates where there have a better chance prospectively looking.

      The bottom line is to get work, not wind down the 35 hour a week clock on fruitless practices that are no longer current forms in today’s society to secure work.


      January 23, 2017 at 10:41 am

      • It is called “self-marketing”. Those bastards Ingeus, Reed and Working Links all had me trudging around the town handing in my CV. It really pisses employers off. One manager was perched up on a ladder putting up signs, she almost lost it when she came down the ladder to find out I only wanted to hand in a CV. It ended up the shops were so pissed off with me and my CV that they got the security guard to throw me out of the shopping mall lol

        In case anyone is interested, no, I didn’t get a job out of it. I didn’t hear back from one employer. And I am still scared to go in the shopping mall in case the security guard recognises me and throws me out lol


        January 23, 2017 at 11:08 am

      • Actually its called prospective job hunting and even has its own form of CV known as a prospective CV. All ingeus and the others have done is rebrand it as self marketing. The CVs if your interest are organized differently to the conventional and common one people use when applying for a specific position/trade.


        January 23, 2017 at 11:30 am

      • Regardless of what you call it, it’s a degrading, humiliating piece of shit as seen in I, Daniel Blake. Takes us back to the days of Yosser Hughes in Boys from the Blackstuff trudging around building sites: “Gizza job, go on, I know you got one. Gizza job!”

        Yosser Hughes

        January 23, 2017 at 11:56 am

      • We’ve seen that a few times when we’ve been out shopping: some hapless individual handing in their CV. As soon as they leave the shop we watch the shop employee disappearing into the back of the shop then hear the sound of the shredder whirring.

        The Shopaholics

        January 23, 2017 at 12:03 pm

      • Most biggish employers have human resources managers and departments who can’t be accessed by just turning up and canvassing them for work. Most medium to large employers require online/postal applications, made in person, or forwarding of a CV plus covering letter from a recruiter, either a website like Indeed.co.uk or employment agency or similar. Only really small firm usually accept CVs from callers and even then it’s often difficult to see someone to give your CV to. I know because I’ve tried it. Usually you only get to see ordinary members of the workforce that don’t hire and fire and who don’t usually know if vacancies exist in their firm or not.

        The world is different now and the days where people can just turn up on a doorstep uninvited and be given casual work are long gone. People behaving like this are immediately suspected of being conmen or trying to pull off a scam or whatever. Pursuing unadvertised employment like tinkers with employers is a dead end in the 21st century; that just isn’t the way it’s done any more. I really don’t know why Jobcentres and the like suggest that people try to do this kind of thing although most of the people I’ve met in such places do seem woefully out of touch with the real world.

        Broken Toy

        January 23, 2017 at 2:23 pm

  10. T May will signal an era of greater state intervention in the economy as she launches her industrial strategy with a promise of “sector deals”, a new system of technical education and better infrastructure.

    Sally Hunt, the UCU general secretary, said: “This is a drop in the ocean that will do nothing to solve the funding crisis in further education, which has seen 1m adult places lost since 2010. If government wants to support technical education, it should invest in our further education colleges, which desperately need thousands more teachers, rather than another set of gimmicks.”
    One of many comments

    “What have the tories ever done for us?!!”…

    “Stopped school milk?”


    “Sold off almost every public utility and national asset ever created!!”

    “Deregulated the banks”

    “Smashed trade union power”

    “Destroyed the manufacturing industry”

    “Buried the coal industry”

    “Decentralised responsibility to local authorities then cut their funding/subsidies”

    “Cut benefits to the unemployed, poor, disadvantaged and disabled while cutting taxes to those earning £150k+”

    “Lied and blamed ANYONE but themselves when it all turns to sh1t!!”

    “Yeh, yeh but I’m alright Jack so I’ll keep voting for ’em!!” (Says 24.4% of electorate)


    news seeker

    January 23, 2017 at 5:00 am

  11. The Tories/Maggie Thatcher “Buried the coal industry” – but was that really such a bad idea after all. I watched many of my relatives suffering a slow, painful death from emphysema and other lung-related diseases after working ‘down pit’. Should the Tories/Maggie Thatcher be lambasted for saving future generations from protracted and debilitating illnesses – coughing your lungs up is not a good way to go!

    There was a programme on BBC4 the other day “Underground Britain” with Dallas Campbell visiting an abandoned mine: “fatalities occurred on a daily basis” – and they did! What an awful environment to work in. Just watching these images of coal mines is enough to give you claustrophobia . Imagine what you would feel like as the pit walls collapsed in on you and you suffocated to death!

    And imagine The Tories/Maggie Thatcher hadn’t “buried the coal industry”… and the coal industry was still operating in the UK… and there was plenty of jobs going ‘down pit’… and benefit claimants were being forced to take them. Better to bury the coal industry than to be buried alive deep down in the bowels of a coal mine!

    Yorkshire Pud

    January 23, 2017 at 8:05 am

    • Yorkshire Pud

      I would have some sympathy for this view except for the fact that Tories/Maggie [Rot in Hell Thatcher] made no attempt to help the areas that they devestated, then or since. No introduction of measures to get new business in, no retraining, no help for councils to move people, no … no… no.. Hmmmm the same as this Gov in fact. In fact can anyone name where they’ve done the right thing for workers? Ever? Go back as far as you can. Tories = Profit, first, middle and last, damn the cost to anyone else.


      January 23, 2017 at 10:09 am

      • The Tories/Maggie [Rot in Hell Thatcher] brought in the private sector to “re-train” the miners into call centre jobs, as well as the staple “employability courses” and “CV workshops”.

        You can poo-poo call centres but given the choice most of would probably opt for working in a call centre rather than stuck a kilometre underground in a coal mine, at least a call centre isn’t suddenly going to cave in a trap you underground!

        Davy Lamp

        January 23, 2017 at 10:27 am

    • The local pit used to bring up more dead bodies than they did blooming coal! Good riddance to the pits!

      Brenda Barnstubble

      January 23, 2017 at 10:32 am

  12. Notice how since the advent of the Snooper’s Charter how the Jobcentre is asking claimants to VERBALLY STATE their ADDRESS, MOBILE TELEPHONE NUMBER and LANDLINE NUMBER and then read ‘doug’s posts on CONSENT, see how the pieces all fit together and you will soon realise what a DANGEROUS GAME is being played out. NEVER talk to the Jobcentre!


    January 23, 2017 at 10:02 am

    • Sounds innocuous 😀 But you always know the Jobcentre is up to something when they ask you to ‘confirm’ something like when you sign-on and you see them reading something on the screen and they ask you to ‘confirm’ “that you have not done any work paid or unpaid”, they suspect or have ‘evidence’ that you are working paid or unpaid (voluntary work) ‘on the side’. Anything out of ordinary in the Jobcentre and there is always a sinister reason behind it, nothing happens by chance in the jobcentre.

      So now they want to tie names, addresses, mobile and landline devices together. Of course they could find out from other sources that you have a mobile in your name, a landline registered in your name at an address but by VERBALLY STATING you have just provided INCONTROVERTIBLE PROOF and CONSENT. You have put an electronic noose around your neck!

      Jizzy Saw

      January 23, 2017 at 10:15 am

  13. The local pit used to bring up more dead bodies than they did blooming coal. Good riddance to the pits!

    Brenda Barnstubble

    January 23, 2017 at 10:32 am

  14. FOLLOW THE MONEY, people, FOLLOW THE MONEY, I tell ya!

    Jesse Ventura - 38th Governor of Minnesota , Former Navy Seal, Ex-Professional Wrestler and Conspiracy Theorist

    January 23, 2017 at 11:24 am

  15. In this new Tory era of online benefit claims – which is the main reason behind the massive Jobcentre closures in Glasgow – 7 out of 10 benefit claimants in the most deprived areas of Glasgow can’t access the internet!!!


    Steam Engine

    January 23, 2017 at 12:09 pm

    • Bang on the button with pre crash figures as we here on this site aired that despite government claims a while back. That by looking at the reduction at that time of debate that we had only merely arrived a pre crash 2008 figures on claimant counts so only know would we see if governments reform can truly support people back into work.

      Judging by governments willingness to start another round of the work programme but this time on long term unemployment and health grounds nails this point beautifully despite both their and even labours attempt (flexi new deal) failing to achieve results that were at the time lambasted by their own research as less effective than the claimant looking for work by themselves.

      Oh how it all unravels with a little thought and a little effort.


      January 23, 2017 at 12:35 pm

      • “lambasted” – that’s a big word, well, for for you, doug? Where did you get that from from, for goodness sake? Did you ‘copy and paste’ it from another post? Doug, for the umpteenth time, don’t go using words you don’t know the meaning of. It’s not big or clever! It just makes you look more spelling and grammatically challenged!

        Doug's Spelling & Grammar Tutor

        January 25, 2017 at 11:58 am

  16. “Your English is rubbish. You will never get a job speaking like that! Have you ever considered an English course?” What the fuck way is that to speak to a benefit claimant!? Who the fuck do these cockroaches think they are!?

    Overheard in the Jobcentre

    January 23, 2017 at 12:16 pm

    • Me looking good Dutchman. Strong as bull intelligent nearly as. Give good job to? Yes? Hard work much do can for small dollar. Speak English good… like Yoda Master Jedi. Thank you please. Bless God.

      Vincent van Cocq

      January 23, 2017 at 2:28 pm

  17. Homelessness and the vicious circle no one questions and government hide.

    As you all know or will do, we have to types of homelessness. The first and often only mentioned by government are those in temp accommodation, the second and oh so obvious is those unfortunate people cast to live their days on the streets.

    NOW a question that does not ever get asked it seems (never by DWP) is WHY make a person who lives on the streets look for work when we all know employers excluding the big issue wont hire such a person for multiple reasons. You would expect DWP to insist on such a homeless claimant to look for a property 35 hours a week, even assist them but OH NO they certainly don’t. Even when applying for benefits online such a person is prevented from applying when they cant supply a home address.


    As you know from recent and near recent media and even personal experience, getting a property is even harder than a job when your single. To make matters worse unless your really ill,disabled or with kid, they wont even supply such a homeless person with temporary accommodation.

    Being the smallest group on claimant statistics, they are the most disenfranchised and incentivized of all claimants. Branded by government as addicts, workshy, beggars who have perfectly good homes to go to, the public have bought it hook line and sinker, even media has fallen for the same rhetoric. This is exactly what the government thinks of any UK citizen that does not tow their line. They are deliberately left reminders.

    So if your a member of the public that doubts this then locate the churches that every night who help as many homeless people as they can bed safely down for the night, go walking the streets and see the many it cant. Go see the truth for yourself.


    January 23, 2017 at 12:20 pm

    • Food banks are the new food stamp.

      With ever increasing numbers and the willingness of local councils, DWP and even the police i here to issue tickets for food banks, it appears the government now heavily rely on such places to hide their disastrous welfare reform. Often on this site posters spoke of when will food stamps start, well you looking at it and its called food banks.

      Whose paying for this, well its not the government but the well meaning public who are im afraid being used as money mules while businesses help solely to promote themselves as being charitable yet never supply in store foodbanks for fear of stigma.


      January 23, 2017 at 12:42 pm

  18. news seeker

    January 23, 2017 at 1:06 pm

    • If you want to know about future industry then don’t read this hacks articles news seeker but instead watch the seminars held at DAVOS on YouTube.

      Here is one to start you off

      You will see they are looking to make you a tool for a machine what with man being inferior to the systems capabilities.

      As for modern batteries on that tax site, what a load of ball as the tech has been available for ages but all the fuel companies through spook companies bought up the patterns so your still reliant on power generation. The principle of a battery is a very simple one as you see all matter (not anti matter) contains energy along with other naturally occurring intrinsic properties like magnetism and resistivity (look the word up or your misinterpret it). People have the notion when they think of power generation that electricity is supplied like water is but this is simply not true. All a power generator does is cause a potential difference which when connected to a circuit of wires and or components, causes their atoms electrons to move to address the imbalance they started. Its 101 electrical science. Lithium batteries are the current form which is a very dangerous substance if not used right and why material costs for reduction and efficiency are a problem.


      January 23, 2017 at 1:56 pm

    • Was that where that missile was heading?


      January 23, 2017 at 7:06 pm

      • Africa apparently.

        Vincent van Cocq

        January 24, 2017 at 9:33 am

  19. Hey Andrew,

    The DWP are advertising for work coaches in our respective localities – Ipswich and Ely. Shall we apply?


    jj joop

    January 23, 2017 at 1:11 pm

    • Do you have a passion for public service? Would you like to make a difference to someone’s life?

      encouraged staff to view the customer (benefit claimant) as an obstacle to performance.

      DWP is responsible for helping people move into employment, supporting pensioners and protecting some of the most vulnerable in our society.

      Managers created and encouraged a confrontational approach towards the customer and the office manager at Salford set up “DMA hit squads” to target customers for sanction action. call the customer record of a job applications a “micky Mouse” job search and customers would often break down and cry or argue because they felt that they were being treated unfairly

      We must become an extraordinary Department and we need people like you to help us deliver this.

      Evidence is they have managed that OK already.

      We work closely with stakeholders to deliver the very best service possible to each and every customer.

      “let’s set them up from day 1”. Managers’ actions and words didn’t reflect the values and behaviours set down by department, they set the wrong examples and acted without any accountability.

      We are looking for people who can provide excellent customer service, can demonstrate good communication skills and a positive attitude to change

      Staff were regularly told by managers to “agitate” and “inconvenience” customers.

      • To be accountable for the decisions made during interviews with claimants to help move them back into sustained employment or prepare for work

      Customers were being deliberately treated inappropriately in order to achieve performance without regard for natural justice and their welfare.




      January 23, 2017 at 7:25 pm

      • The “hit squad” thing came in after the Work Programme was seen to be a failure. Official DWP language used in such a context speaks volumes about Jobcentre attitudes which the DWP wanted to inculcate in its managers and staff. Questions were asked about it, e.g.,


        It was all part of government propaganda designed to demonise benefit claimants with a view to justifying introducing systemic, deliberate and poisonous harshness into the system with mistreatment of claimants by far too many civil servants becoming the new normal for too many. The idea was to fool or persuade the unaffected public that awful things that happened to benefit claimants under the new regime only happened to bad claimants and were therefore deserved. The Guardian article seems like a very fair representation of the “us and them” mentality of many Jobcentres and allegations of trying to compromise, catch out, and trip up innocent people in order to get them sanctioned entirely and wholly believable.

        This is what you get if you reward people, with praise or bonuses, for behaving badly towards others.

        Hit squat?

        Shit squad more like!

        Broken Toy

        January 24, 2017 at 1:41 pm

      • “Hit Squad” has the same connotations as “Mobile Execution Team”, the “Assassination Bureau”… were they going to “whack”, “take out”, “rub out” jobseekers, make them “disappear”?

        The Shit Squad was billed as the “toughest Jobcentre regime – EVER!”

        The Shit Squad was a set-up for a not ASE (Actively Seeking Employment) from the get-go…. asking for the hapless jobseeker’s job-diary, then poo-pooing it: “WHAT KIND OF MICKEY MOUSE JOB-SEARCH DO YOU CALL THIS”. [Call ‘security’. Jobseeker is now surrounded by six G4S goons]. Jobseeker can’t get a word in edgeways. “WHY DIDN’T YOU APPLY FOR ‘INSERT RANDOM VACANCY FROM UNIVERSAL JOBMATCH?” Jobseeker still can’t get word in edgeways. “WHY DIDN’T YOU HAND YOUR CV INTO RANDOM BUSINESS?” Jobseeker still having no luck getting word in edgeways. “LISTEN, IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE AGGRESSIVE I AM GOING TO TERMINATE THIS INTERVIEW.” “THAT’S IT. I’VE HAD ENOUGH OF YOUR NONSENSE. THIS IS GOING TO A ‘DECISION MAKER’. The ‘shit squad’ cockroach would then proceed to fill out a DART referral form, ignoring anything the jobseeker had to say, and fill it in with total lies. “THIS INTERVIEW IS NOW TERMINATED.”

        The now disbanded Shit Squad must have cost more in mandatory reconsiderations, appeals, increased Jobcentre security than these tossers saved in sanctions.

        Only a madman such as Iain Duncan Smith could have come up with the ‘Shit Squad’!

        Shit Squad

        January 24, 2017 at 3:05 pm

      • These ‘shit squad’ ‘chats’ go on for like up to two hours!

        Shit Squad Victim

        January 24, 2017 at 3:15 pm

      • No matter how ‘water-tight’ you thought your job-search was they would go on and on in almost forensic detail, going through your job-search until they could ‘get you’ on something. It was like the Spanish Inquisition. Like Cardinal Richelieu said: “Give me six lines written by the most honest of men, and I will find something in them to hang him.”

        Shit Squad Victim

        January 24, 2017 at 3:20 pm

      • No matter how ‘water-tight’ you thought your job-search was they would go on and on in almost forensic detail, going through your job-search with a fine-tooth comb until they could ‘get you’ on something. It was like the Spanish Inquisition. Like Cardinal Richelieu said: “Give me six lines written by the most honest of men, and I will find something in them to hang him.”

        Shit Squad Victim

        January 24, 2017 at 3:21 pm

      • “Give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men and I will find something in them to hang him.”

        — Cardinal De Richelieu

        Cardinal De Richelieu

        January 24, 2017 at 3:26 pm

      • i had 3 hit squad advisers and all failed to get a sanction to stick as never had my exit report from the work programme for a start, i gave them the runaround every time i signed on some even lasted a hole hour and the were the ones red in the face loosing the plot at the end 😉


        January 24, 2017 at 6:39 pm

  20. Book Review: Student Lives in Crisis: Deepening Inequality in Times of Austerity by Lorenza Antonucci


    Now im not saying go and buy the book, what im saying or should i say did a while back is how all this so called education for the young was manufactured to get them into debt by removing support and asserting and assuming they would have support.

    Remember it was this government that removed concessions and support.

    You would see a much bigger picture of this inequality if DWP allowed claimants to study full time in order to retrain for as MP May put it, FUTURE TECHNOLOGIES. The conservatives although New Labour prior did it have deliberately held back anyone unemployed from retraining anything but manual labour, an ability being crushed and transformed by technology every day.

    Since the conservatives took power anyone unemployed since 2010 could have retrained as a nurse or engineer (2 massive skills short areas) to plug the gap but they instead allowed employers to recruit from abroad. What does this tell you about our government and immigration ?


    January 23, 2017 at 2:47 pm

  21. The NHS & DWP sold to the USA. Trump Care. Mother Theresa May`s Trade Deal on Friday. As well as an Israeli settlement base. British Ground Troops ready to build a wall around the ever expanding Israel. Mother Theresa May is a k** fascist puppet for Sir Donald Duck Trump who will fire the Royal Family if he does not get a knighthood.

    Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    January 23, 2017 at 6:25 pm

  22. Jobcentres are closing because there is no need for them as unemployment is so low & getting lower with more people in work than ever. We the DWP don`t care you can`t sort out your UC so you now get home visits by your Work Coach which includes in your UC Customer Claimant Commitment contract that you have to make tea & cake when the Work Coach comes round.

    Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    January 23, 2017 at 6:31 pm

  23. UK businesses have the chance to access £212bn disability market

    10th Jan 2017

    UK business has a golden opportunity to access the £212bn annual disability market through the Government’s Disability Confident scheme, according to disability equality champion Mike Adams OBE.

    The Chief Executive of not-for-profit organisation Purple says the Government’s re-launch of its Disability Confident scheme is providing businesses with the opportunity to relook at disability differently and help them access the disability market, or ‘Purple Pound’, which is worth £212bn a year to the UK.

    The Disability Confident scheme aims to support the government’s overall strategy to reduce the disability employment gap. It has been running since 2013 and was re-launched by the minister for disabled people Penny Mordaunt MP last November.

    However, ahead of the re-launch Purple carried out research revealing almost a third of businesses (29 per cent) are uncertain about how to become involved in the scheme while a further 30 per cent have not yet heard of it.

    Read More:

    Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    January 23, 2017 at 6:37 pm

    • “”””£212bn annual disability market “”””

      Disability Confident PLC

      Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

      January 23, 2017 at 6:39 pm

      • Money Laundering Criminal Money. DWP Assisted Suicide.

        Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

        January 23, 2017 at 6:40 pm

    • And that’s not from the Macedonian News Factory of ‘alternative facts’……

      Andrew Coates

      January 24, 2017 at 10:37 am

      • Remember this one?

        “Ban the jobless from driving to ease congestion, Ukip candidate says
        Lynton Yates also argued cyclists should be forced to ride on the pavement and give way to pedestrians.”



        Andrew Coates

        January 24, 2017 at 10:40 am

      • Why would Mr Yates think that the unemployed are driving about all day, or at least in big enough numbers to contribute to congestion on the roads? Where the heck do these people get these crazy ideas from? They just seem to pluck them out of thin air and state them as if they are facts. Trumpisms let’s call them. The mind boggles.

        Broken Toy

        January 25, 2017 at 10:25 am

      • Of course the roads aren’t full of unemployed people driving around all day and Mr Yates knows this full well. Mr Yates intended the driving ban for the unemployed as a PUNISHMENT for being unemployed. Pure and simple! Of course Mr Yates hasn’t thought this through. Unemployed people would be unable to drive to a job interview. They would be unable to ‘refresh’ their driving skills to avoid becoming ‘rusty’ and unsafe on the roads.. They would be unable to take voluntary work as a driver. They couldn’t undertake training for other license categories. All in all, Mr Yates idiotic idea would also serve to make unemployed people who can drive even less employable.


        January 25, 2017 at 10:57 am

      • An unemployed car driver couldn’t train to become a bus driver or a heavy good vehicle driver because they were disqualified from driving by virtue of being unemployed.


        January 25, 2017 at 11:02 am

      • What i like is how it completely contradicts the Tory mantra of workshy, curtain twitching, drug addicted claimants. Of course however Yates didn’t say unemployed claimants, he said unemployed so hes talking about the disabled,carers,students, volunteers,the retired, mothers and all the other inactivity classes who are added to unemployed claimants to make up the figure of unemployed.

        This proves not only why no one listened but why he hasn’t a clue what hes talking about,especially when you add a failing public transport service that’s equally as congested.

        Using current figures, if we assumed for the sake of discussion every unemployed and employed person had a car that the result would be they only would make up 5% of the total road traffic. If you do a little math your see that’s so much a drop in the bucket regarding congestion that Yates needs to be locked up for being insane let alone making his comment highly laughable.


        January 25, 2017 at 1:10 pm

      • Just for the record strike proven disabled cant work and retired from list i gave.

        I added the disabled as government seem hell bent to prove they can all work which as we is ensnaring people who will never work and are or have been in the process of reversing this in court.
        I added the retired as some are now going back to work so it bumps up the employed figure and thus skews the ratio figure between employed and unemployed.


        January 25, 2017 at 2:59 pm

  24. Operation Trident Tested – Black on Black Crime & CO 19.

    Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    January 23, 2017 at 6:41 pm

    • Maybe may, may be June. May I maybe I may have been May maybe may Am I Maybe May.

      Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

      January 23, 2017 at 6:42 pm

      • Maybe Mother Theresa May.

        Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

        January 23, 2017 at 6:43 pm

      • Trident Vote Rigging – No Maybees about it.

        Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

        January 23, 2017 at 6:44 pm

  25. Donald Duck Trump = DDT.

    Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    January 23, 2017 at 6:45 pm

  26. Two for one King Edwards – great for roasting and mashing – at Walford Market 🙂

    Feed Your Family For Fuck All

    January 23, 2017 at 8:04 pm

  27. Two comments. Wtf would have happened if the miss fire came down on land. Secondly. Benefit delivery center good morning can I have your phone number for security please etc etc. I say the one I am on now. Bdc we have 5 numbers for you which one are you using. Me I only have one number. Bdc that’s not what I have hear. Me. OK it’s 07@@@@@@@@@. Thank you sir. How can I help you. Me firstly please remove the other numbers from your database. Bdc. Sorry cant do that. Me OK I will come back to that in a minute. Dealt with what I wanted. Me why can’t you remove the other numbers. Bdc policy. Me who’s DWP or Central government. Bdc its just policy sir. I’ll get in touch with the information commissioner. Bdc. They are government too sir. Not wanting to push them too far I gave up. BTW Gaza that number. 03456043719 IS A STICKY NUMBER. I can’t get it out of my called numbers log. Even if I do manage to delete it’s back as soon as I turn the phone off and back on again. I went and spoke to my provider (I am payg). They have had other reports of this too.


    January 24, 2017 at 8:00 am

    • It would be more or less the same as a medium sized aeroplane crash since the missile had no warheads fitted. However, since all of these missiles can be destroyed remotely during flight, and are launched from the ocean many miles from shore, it’s more or less impossible for them to accidentally crash anywhere inhabited.


      January 24, 2017 at 5:37 pm

  28. It takes a true moron to open an email account called ‘Bullshit Detector’ .

    Jeff Smith

    January 24, 2017 at 10:39 am

    • And an even bigger one not to have realised that on blogs like this you can use any email address and/or name you like, whenever you like, as you like, whether they be real or phony.

      Teresa García Ramírez marries Elí Arroyo López

      January 24, 2017 at 1:48 pm

  29. TRACY….I have experience of when I was at READS here in Ipswich of the PA’s actually coming with you when you self marketed. Then they went in the store to see if you really did hand in your cv. There were other posts on this site about the same thing a few years ago too


    January 24, 2017 at 11:31 am

  30. OLD SCHOOL PROGRAMMER 1 In 10 Know 0 About Binary


    January 24, 2017 at 11:35 am

    • 1010 out of 1010

      01010011 01101000 01101001 01110100 01110011 01110100 01100001 01101001 01101110

      January 24, 2017 at 1:20 pm

      • YUP


        January 25, 2017 at 9:47 am

    • 01000001011000110111010001110101011000010110110001101100011110010010000001100110011000010111001000100000011001100110000101110010001000000110011001100001011100100010000001100110011000010111001000100000011001100110000101110010001000000110110001100101011100110111001100100000011101000110100001100001011011100010000000110001001000000110100101101110001000000011000100110000001000000110101101101110011011110111011100100000011000100110100101101110011000010111001001111001


      January 25, 2017 at 1:26 pm

  31. Brexit: supreme court rules government cannot trigger article 50 without act of parliament – live


    news seeker

    January 24, 2017 at 12:21 pm

    • You MAY not to bet on that. Judges in the dole queue?


      January 24, 2017 at 1:18 pm

    • Did you really believe the people had spoken, what a fucking joke, there is no way the globalists will let us Leave the EU.

      Never will we be a sovereign nation.


      January 24, 2017 at 2:13 pm

      • A Nation State ruled in perpetuity by the Conservative Party doesn’t seem desirable to me.


        January 24, 2017 at 5:28 pm

    • Good. The only representation we get in respect to legislation is in parliament. Besides leaving the EU is supposed to be all about being ruled by parliament and therefore it seem incredibly stupid to me that parliament should have no say about the way we leave the EU before we leave.


      January 24, 2017 at 5:31 pm

      • So why bother having a referendum then?

        Might as well have left it up to Parliament in the first place.


        January 24, 2017 at 7:00 pm

      • Referendums are advisory not electoral. Only parliament can enact laws after a bill proposing the new law(s) has passed through the House of Parliament and House of Lords several times and received Royal Assent. A referendum does not circumvent this process and enable an administration to act without parliamentary consent.

        Be careful what you wish for.

        If you think things are unjust and malicious as far as welfare is concerned now, you won’t believe what the future holds when the Tories are unfettered from European law in respect to human and workers rights and can do whatever they like without being restrained or answerable to anybody anywhere. If you think that food banks and low benefits are bad just wait until you have to try to survive in an insular Britain where eternal Conservative dictatorship calls the shots and can do whatever it likes, however it likes. You sound like a black slave in the American south cheering Confederate troops as they arch to war to keep you in chains.


        January 25, 2017 at 9:07 am

      • Exactly! Parliament is free to ignore the wishes of the people which can be a good thing. As Professor Robert Winston commented after Parliament voted against the Assisted Dying Bill which incidentally the disabled community were vehemently against, wonder why, but for which there was overwhelming public support : “In the 1960s Parliament voted against hanging when the great majority of the public was in favour, a practice which right-minded people now consider abhorrent.”

        That is why we have a Parliament – to FORCE a debate* and why we pay MPs for doing a FULL-TIME job. It is the emotive issues that whip up the public, but is a true ‘people’s democracy’ where we didn’t have a Parliament and ALL legislation was decided on by smartphone who would really want to spend all their time considering the ins and out outs of some obscure agricultural, forestry and woodland legislation? Most day-to-day business of Parliament is boring and tedious, parliamentary business is not a high-octane TV drama.

        Back in the day if you mentioned that immigration was the cause of the Brexit vote you would be accused of being “racist”, but now it is being openly admitted. By now even the BBC is saying such. Andrew Marr: “When you look at places like Stoke-On-Trent and what is happening with immigration you can see why people are peeved off”. And even John O’Donnell agrees! The Brexit vote was very little, if nothing to do with the EU. People are really just pissed off struggling to obtain social housing and healthcare, competing for shittier and shittier jobs for shittier and shittier and shittier pay. The well-do-do Islington latte-slurpers used to get away with shouting “racist” as soon a immigration was mentioned but this is no longer the case as Brexit has brought the message and the harsh reality of day-to-day life for the poor of the UK home.

        Jeez, even the ‘established’ immigrants are complaining about levels of immigration. Remember when Tony Blair opened to floodgates to Eastern Europe whilst the rest of Europe was keeping their floodgates closed and he said he was “expecting” 10,000 immigrants from Eastern Europe to arrive in the UK and all those pictures of Romanians, etc. waiting to board buses to the UK was nonsense. Well, like with Saddam Hussein’s ‘weapons of mass destruction’ Tony Blair is now a PROVEN LIAR as far as immigration goes.

        Furthermore, the damage as far as immigration goes has already to done to a greater or less extent, so even if May was to ‘do a Trump’ and ‘build a great big wall’ around these shores it would make little or any difference. With a Brexit we would be most likely be left with the worst of both worlds, as this is always the case, at least as far as the poor are concerned. Be careful what you wish for, indeed!

        *expect for ‘whip’s i.e. three- line whips whereby MPs are told how to vote or face expulsion from the Party

        Rhubarb Tart

        January 25, 2017 at 10:40 am



    January 24, 2017 at 1:19 pm

    • http://


      January 24, 2017 at 7:32 pm

  33. i had 3 hit squad advisers and all failed to get a sanction to stick as never had my exit report from the work programme for a start, i gave them the runaround every time i signed on some even lasted a hole hour and the were the ones red in the face loosing the plot at the end 😉

    I never had mine either Superted.

    Their still tying the cait reilly trick even though Mandatory use was unlawful.Its the same players involved for free labour they must be continually letting people go to keep advertising in the Jobcentre.One has the front to state that those from the Jobcentre need to mention where there from.It has the under the counter about it.


    January 24, 2017 at 8:31 pm

  34. David Davis warns MPs against attempts to ‘derail’ Brexit

    Or What? This is supposed to be the seat of democracy instead the Tories are intent in steamrollering their way through any process.

    The caliphate of Racca would see similar democracy.



    January 24, 2017 at 8:38 pm

  35. im from earth 😉


    January 24, 2017 at 8:39 pm

  36. Now when the jobcentre hand down a ‘punishment’ they always append it by saying: “It’s a new thing 😀 Everybody is on it 😀 ” “I am putting you on thrice daily signing 😀 You will have to attend the jobcentre threes times a day 😀 ” “Eh, excuse me!?” “It’s a new thing 😀 Everybody is on it 😀 “

    Overheard in the Jobcentre

    January 25, 2017 at 11:33 am

    • Who can argue with that though? 😉 That’s your ‘objection’ overcome right there and then 🙂


      January 25, 2017 at 11:40 am

      • Yup, it’s not like you can argue that you are being picked on, singled out for ‘punishment’ if “everybody is on it” 😉

        Jobcentre Service User

        January 25, 2017 at 11:47 am

  37. Road Runner:– BEEPBEEP


    January 25, 2017 at 2:27 pm

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