Ipswich Unemployed Action.

Campaigning for Unemployed Rights.

Attempt to Reform Benefits Sanctions – Private Member’s Bill Shelved.

with 156 comments

Image result for campaign against dole  sanctions

Friday, (BBC)

Work and Pensions Minister Damian Hinds is now answering the second reading debate on the Benefit Claimants Sanctions (Required Assessment) Bill.

Evidence does show that sanctions have a positive effect, he says.

The government ensures that claimants are made aware of the availability of hardship payments, and that these are made within three days, he says.

Mr Hinds says the existing legislation refers to “causes” rather than “reasonable causes” so that discretion can be used to assess whether a person has failed to comply with a condition of their benefits.

As he launches into a line by line response to the bill, the Deputy Speaker calls the debate to order.

Debate on the bill ceases at this point, and although Ms Black asks debate to resume in February, it is unlikely there will be any private members’ time left to return to the bill.

Welfare Weekly reports.

SNP MP Mhairi Black will today (Friday) issue a heartfelt plea to all MPs to put party politics aside and support her initiative to reform the UK Government’s “cruel and damaging” benefits sanctions regime.

The Benefits Sanctions (Required Assessment) Bill will have its second reading in the House of Commons today and Mhairi Black, the youngest MP in the Commons, is the second SNP MP to ever bring forward a Private Member’s Bill.

The legislation will ensure that Department for Work and Pensions staff in Jobcentres across the UK would be required to consider whether personal circumstances such as caring commitments, whether a person is at risk of homelessness or whether they suffer from a mental ill-health condition that could be exacerbated by a benefit sanction before one can be issued.

Director Ken Loach, whose film I, Daniel Blake deals with the effects of benefits sanctions, gave his support to the Bill earlier this week and also urged others to give it their backing.

Mhairi Black MP (pictured) said: “Today we have an important opportunity to make the cruel and damaging benefits sanctions regime fairer. This is about real people, real lives and the real and devastating consequences that sanctions have on individuals and their families.

“My bill will introduce a process of assessing a person’s circumstances such as their caring commitments, whether they are at risk of homelessness or whether they suffer from a mental ill-health condition that could be exacerbated by a sanction.

“If I could scrap sanctions completely I would do it in a heartbeat but I can’t and so I’m making this small ask in the hope that it will improve the lives of people who simply cannot afford to have their safety net stripped from them when they need it most.

“I call on MPs from all parties – Labour in particular – to prove that they can stand up for their constituents and support my Bill today.”

Update: Bill was shelved after MPs spoke for so long there wasn’t enough time for the government to respond.

Note: the Mirror reports.

SNP law to reform benefit sanctions runs out of time after long speeches by Tories… and the SNP

The clock ran out on Mhairi Black’s bid to stop Jobcentres unfairly penalising carers, the homeless and the mentally ill.

However, he prompted a row by complaining he only had eight minutes to talk after other people’s speeches – the longest of which was from Ms Black, Westminster’s youngest MP.

“She spoke for one hour and 15 minutes and I have very little time,” he told MPs. “I’m not going to be able to get through all the contents of the Bill.”

Before he stood up in the House of Commons, four SNP MPs talked for 2 hours and 29 minutes; three Tory MPs talked for an hour and 40 minutes; and Labour’s shadow minister talked for 20 minutes.

But SNP MP John Nicolson – whose own law to pardon 50,000 gay men was “talked out” by a Tory minister weeks ago – defended Ms Black and said her law would have been blocked regardless.

“The minister would have talked it out had she spoken for 5 seconds,” he tweeted. “It’s all pre-arranged on Tory benches with whips.

“They do this every Friday whether speeches are long or short. It’s government policy.”

The SNP tweeted: “While Mhairi Black’s bill was talked out by the Tory minister, the SNP will never stop fighting for a more just society.”

The Private Member’s Bill – not backed the government – was governed by out-of-date rules which put a time limit on the overall debate, but not individual speeches.

Advertisements

Written by Andrew Coates

December 4, 2016 at 12:24 pm

156 Responses

Subscribe to comments with RSS.

  1. The word John Nicolson is looking for is ‘filibuster’: A filibuster is a parliamentary procedure where debate over a proposed piece of legislation is extended, allowing one or more members to delay or entirely prevent a vote on the proposal. It is sometimes referred to as “talking out a bill” or “talking a bill to death” and characterized as a form of obstruction in a legislature or other decision-making body.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster

    Anyway, there already is an appendage to the Claimant Commitment called the Personal Profile which records claimant’s circumstances so the jobcentre is already aware. This Bill, even if passed, would have achieved nothing.

    And we can’t allow a situation to develop where we think it is OK to sanction someone but not sanction someone else. This is a retrograde step back to the dark days of New Labour and their so-called ‘vulnerable’ groups nonsense. Anybody left without an income is by definition ‘vulnerable’. End sanctions – without exception!

    End Sanctions - Without Exception

    December 4, 2016 at 12:55 pm

  2. Does Labour have much of a policy on this issue?

    I would like to think so, but it’s hard to find any firm details.

    Andrew Coates

    December 4, 2016 at 1:13 pm

    • Labour like all the mainstream support sanctions either in public, in private, in secret. The only mainstream political party that does not support sanctions and actively opposes santions is Class War.

      Class War

      December 4, 2016 at 1:32 pm

  3. Sanctions, the abuse, will continue.

    news seeker

    December 4, 2016 at 2:06 pm

  4. OT.The invisible credit card of the future, open to yet more hacking into.

    There is no need to make a payment, no fiddling with coins, and no placement of a debit or credit card in a terminal. In fact, there is no till at all.

    This is not casual shoplifting but a realistic prospect of the future way to pay – when technology recognises your presence, scans your shopping, and invisibly takes payment from your account.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38174011

    news seeker

    December 4, 2016 at 2:26 pm

  5. The problem with sanctions is successive governments treat say turning up a hour late to signing on as the same as running someone down while drunk. There completely disproportionate and it does not work any more than prison sentences rehabilitate. In short its just stubborn pig headedness and being petty.

    Politicians are great theorists and philosophers, they are just people who have read others work and apply the same tired mantra. They do not have the ability to think outside the box period as they have in a political sense like religion a belief structure. Im not saying you shouldn’t acknowledge material, just that you must see it for what it is.

    In the case of turning up late without a good logical reason, i think its quite acceptable to stop there benefit for that day as outside of that , they have done no wrong.

    In the case of say a claimant really not knowing how to use a PC and the internet, there’s nothing wrong with going and attending a course. So if that person refused without logical cause, it is then the claimant and not DWP at fault here as technology is the world now so has to be embraced as its going nowhere anytime yet in terms of going away. In that case i think the benefit should be suspended until the claimants sees to logic in learning how to use computers.

    So as you can see i have made it relative rather than disproportionate and un connected.

    LET ME BE CLEAR – Im talking about only claimants who do not make sense of why we have these things (appointments and courses in these two cases) in place and not the wrongly persecuted or secret agendas by government.

    doug

    December 4, 2016 at 2:38 pm

    • SORRY TYPO – VERY IMPORTANT/MUST READ —–

      I meant to say politicians ARE NOT GREAT THEORISTS AND PHILOSOPHERS.

      doug

      December 4, 2016 at 2:41 pm

    • I strongly disagree with you doug, no one’s benefits should ever be suspended especially where people don’t know how to use a computer due to learning difficulties.

      Marie

      December 4, 2016 at 3:21 pm

      • Marie

        I was very clear in my post who i was referring to when speaking about say a claimant needing a course to better understand how to use a computer and the internet. What you mentioned was a logical cause which i did mention.

        Quote from my original post

        “So if that person refused without logical cause,”

        In the case of such a claimant as you speak off,whether or not they would accomplish such a course really depends on the qualified and experienced people (not DWP or DWP sponsored people) who support them to decide that as it should be that a doctor decides whether or not you can work rather than a occupational health practitioner who can be easily unbiased dew to it being there bread and butter not to mention being a subcontractor so takes there lead from the person offering the contract.

        In the the world you live in so not the world you think you live in, the taxpayer is not responsible for your existence any more than you are for someone else. That may be a cold thing to face but its true just like its true you are unable to farm and hunt off the land at will. Even in Africa say a lion will fight you for territory, its a fact of life. Humans are not holier than thou, there just another species and your going to have to face that if you haven’t already done so.

        It would be nice to not have to set rules, it would be nice if employers only goal was to employ everyone so no one went without what with not being able to hunt and farm but this is simply not the case as even nature and existence have conditions. Where there is one person who will go one way,there’s always another who will go in the other direction for example and that although having many names/titles is best known as ying and yang.

        This is why i believe sanctions will remain even if tuned to more favorable terms as regards the claimant.

        doug

        December 4, 2016 at 4:18 pm

      • But humans are not ‘free’ like animals in the wild. Humans are confined to a cage of artificial constructs. Look at the male snow leopard who raped the female snow leopard on Planet Earth 2. Will this rapist snow leopard face a snow leopard court? Wild animals just do as they please. Lions murder cubs that they suspect of not being their own with no repercussions. And what about the jaguar who murdered the caiman again on Planet Earth 2? Will this errant jaguar face justice? Like hell it will!

        Planet Earth 2

        December 4, 2016 at 4:48 pm

      • What you saying doug? Are you saying that in the taxpayer jungle the sick, disabled, elderly and unemployed would all the picked off and eaten alive?

        The Purge

        December 4, 2016 at 4:56 pm

      • Planet earth 2

        Can you show the audience where i said humans are free like animals or even where i say animals are free for that fact.

        Marie

        Quoting my post again

        “In the case of such a claimant as you speak off,whether or not they would accomplish such a course really depends on the qualified and experienced people (not DWP or DWP sponsored people) who support them to decide that as it should be that a doctor decides whether or not you can work rather than a occupational health practitioner who can be easily unbiased dew to it being there bread and butter not to mention being a subcontractor so takes there lead from the person offering the contract”.

        WHAT IS IT THAT qualified and experienced people (not DWP or DWP sponsored people) who support them to decide WOULD HAVE TO DECIDE ?

        doug

        December 4, 2016 at 4:56 pm

      • True doug. And a mean viscous species at that. You would soon find that out if the government stopped paying pensions, disability benefits and unemployment benefits.

        The Purge

        December 4, 2016 at 5:01 pm

      • As far as the snow leopard and the jaguar go considering they have been caught on camera there is enough evidence for the police to go on.

        Old Betty

        December 4, 2016 at 5:35 pm

      • I agree,no one should be sanctioned for any reason whatsoever!The state sponsored assassins in the joke centres don’t and wont give a toss about claimants circumstances,the vermin will just carry on with their hatred of us regardless!

        foxglove

        December 4, 2016 at 5:39 pm

      • Purge (in reference to your post)

        “What you saying doug? Are you saying that in the taxpayer jungle the sick, disabled, elderly and unemployed would all the picked off and eaten alive”?

        Setting the scene – You have a river you must cross because you really dont want to die but you know it takes two people to succeed in actually crossing it. There’s no other way and you have to cross the river or die as the only food left is on the other side. All the people were on the side your currently on but all have perished except for you and one other person. It will take a day to cross the river. It is the morning so as yet you have not eaten.

        Now to live each day you must eat a single apple but all the food on your side is gone except for 2 apples which you yourself have. The other person has no apples so,

        1: Do you eat the apples yourself to survive 2 days and except dying or

        2: Eat one apple while saying to the other person with none, here is an apple lets keep each other company for a day before we both die or,

        3: Eat one apple while saying to the other person, if i give you this apple and we work together, we can cross that river and have plenty of apples and live many days.

        doug

        December 4, 2016 at 6:04 pm

      • @Doug

        That’s daft. Humans ARE different from EVERY other animal on earth because they are sentient and able to make choices based on their own moral judgement not just their genetics. Most sane human being help their own young and the young of others not cannibalise them. Humans have language and intelligence and pass knowledge down the generations through the spoken and written word; humans do not behave instinctively like most other animals based on our hard-wired genetics. Bees build honeycombs and ants construct colonies because they are born pre-disposed to do so, modern humans on the other hand build cathedrals, galleries full of art, theatres, libraries, universities, plant forests and gardens and do all sorts of things based on their aesthetic sense of symmetry and beauty. Humans pass on behaviours, knowledge and attitudes culturally and socially in ways unknown to any other life form that exists or has ever existed on the globe.

        If we are uncaring, nasty and cruel then shame on us because unless we have been deprived or are psychopathic we should know better. You seem to believe that human being are not naturally kind and good whereas I have found the opposite. Most people are kind and want to help others unless persuaded to do otherwise by politics, religion, tragedy, injury, illness, drugs or some other factor which distorts what they would have been in the absence of combinations of such malign influences.

        Humans are not just “another” species, Doug, we are “the” species.

        As representatives of the animal at pinnacle of evolution on earth we ought to strive to be the best that we can be and, in my opinion, that involves not just caring for our own children but all children and not just for our own families and friends but everyone everywhere.

        Tolstrup

        December 4, 2016 at 7:57 pm

      • Tolstrup

        http://phys.org/news/2013-12-humans-smarter-animals-experts.html

        Theirs tons of this stuff on peer reviewed documents and you forget or probably dont even know science is copying/using the animal kingdom left right and center to produce all sorts of advancements man have, do and will use but next to nothing in comparison based on humans.

        As Einstein said, ” mankind invented the atomic bomb, but no mouse would ever construct a mousetrap”.

        Stop deceiving yourself, especially considering how the mere likes of a work coach thinks of you.

        And you wonder why they find it so easy to sanction claimants and stop there claims, poetic.

        doug

        December 4, 2016 at 8:20 pm

      • @Doug

        You miss the point, Doug. Work coaches don’t sanction people because it’s in their nature to do so, they do it because they have either been persuaded or conditioned to do it by their corporate employer (DWP) based on policies designed by a few incompetent right-wing people and approved by a few hundred MPs. Work coaches are civil servants, many of years standing, who have had a regime imposed on them by ideologues at the DWP; if they failed to enforce the social security system of the day they would be sacked or have to leave to find alternative employment with somebody else taking their place. Man invented the atomic bomb but only used it twice during a conflict and never used it as a weapon of war again. The holocaust didn’t happen because Germans, one of the most well educated and cultured people on earth, were bad but because the Nazis were bad and were able to drive their countrymen into horrific atypical behaviour. Conformity and obedience in human beings ordered, or given a dispensation, to act in awful ways by a figure of authority with no danger of suffering any penalty as a consequence is a very well known phenomenon. (Experiments conducted by Stanley Milgram, Philip Zimbardo and others showed this.) It is the people allowing or ordering others to act contrary to their fundamental natures, without consequences, that unleashes catastrophe.

        Forget the Work Coaches.

        What they do is rule based; you might as well get angry with a machine.

        Blame Iain Duncan Smith and Lord David Freud, the main two people who polluted the social security system with their own distorted, inhumane and unevidenced ideas. And George Osborne for trying to squeeze the welfare system dry in order to generate a spending surplus by the end of the parliament and serve his own insatiable vanity. These are the three individuals principally responsible for the welfare disaster unfolding and ongoing not their factors like Work Coaches.

        Tolstrup

        December 5, 2016 at 9:04 am

      • ON this subject I really don’t like this ponential for the snoopers’ sanction:

        DWP To Have Access To Claimants’ Internet History

        Same Difference

        With many thanks to Benefits And Work.

        The Investigatory Powers Bill, which is about to become law with virtually no opposition from MPs, gives a huge range of agencies, including the DWP, the right to see an individual’s entire internet browsing history.

        Senior Executive Officers in Fraud and Error Services at the DWP will be able to see a list of every website claimants have visited in the past year, although the details will not include the individual pages that claimants have visited on a particular website.

        Considering the large amount of benefit claimants who regularly visit Same Difference, we find this idea a very scary one. Considering the amount of articles we publish which say unpleasant things about the DWP and its policies, we are more than a little bit relieved to see that individual pages will not be revealed to them!

        https://welfaretales.wordpress.com/2016/12/05/dwp-to-have-access-to-claimants-internet-history/

        Andrew Coates

        December 5, 2016 at 12:06 pm

      • Fucking hell! This will open up a whole new world of pain for benefit claimants!

        Ant Middleton

        December 5, 2016 at 2:20 pm

      • From the horse’s mouth:

        “451 Subsection (6)(a) provides that in the particular context of web browsing anything beyond data
        which identifies the telecommunication service (e.g. bbc.co.uk) is content. Accordingly
        bbc.co.uk, google.co.uk or facebook.com would be communications data* but data showing
        what searches have been made on Google or whose profiles have been viewed on Facebook
        would be content.”

        But intensiveactivity.wordpress.com/ still reveals that you visited intensiveactivity not just wordpress 😉
        And how do we know that the full url isn’t already being recorded – it would be trivial to do so – and who already has access to it.

        And how do you know what form the url takes of say Netflix or whatever a TV or other service connected to the ‘internet of things’. Not only will the DWP be able to see that you can afford Netflix on benefits (start an investigation) as well as a flat-screen colour they will be be able to see what you are watching 😉

        No good can come of having vast amount of personal and sensitive information in the hand of State snoopers for benefits claimants or anyone else for that matter.

        *Meaning of “communications data” – gross breach of the users privacy.

        Snooper's Sanction

        December 5, 2016 at 4:03 pm

      • @ Snooper’s Sanction

        It’s up to you what you spend your benefit entitlements on, which is why housing benefit and local housing allowance was rolled into Universal Credit. If you don’t pay your landlord that’s up to you, you will end up evicted, but that decision is yours to make. So if you’d rather have an internet connection and Netflix paid for by starving yourself and having no heat in the winter that’s up to you. You can’t be punished for taking decisions like that… well… no more than you would be by having a piss poor diet and freezing your arse off when it gets cold. Unless you are moonlighting in the black economy any investigation will have nothing to uncover and you have nothing to fear. If you are moonlighting they are already out to get you by every other means.

        To be honest the Snooper’s Charter won’t have the kind of scope you’re talking about in practice anyway. It’s main purpose is to put criminals and extremists under scrutiny and to provide an audit trail of what they’ve been up to communications-wise. (Like visiting ISIS friendly websites and/or reading articles online about explosives, weapons and bomb making and such like.) The audit trail is important evidence which can be passed on to the police and submitted in court as evidence of guilt in a trial. The whole idea is to slowly build up a profile of select people who repeatedly have been seen to behave suspiciously online, not to catch out benefit claimants slacking, e.g., watching porn when they should have been job seeking, or whatever.

        When I record on my work search record that I spent a few hours walking through my home town “investigating” whether any “unnotified” vacancies are advertised in shop windows, or visited my local library to inspect the newspapers, I’m not likely to get tailed by anybody from the DWP to check that I have or haven’t done what I said. Same with the Snooper’s Charter. The DWP is not doing to tote up the number of hours you IP address spends connected to the IP of Universal Jobmatch to make sure that millions of claimants diligently do their work search every week and to sanction the ones that don’t. That kind of microscopic surveillance of millions of individual lives throughout every 24 hour day just isn’t going to happen.

        As somebody said on some other thread, it won’t happen because none of us are important enough.

        Tolstrup

        December 5, 2016 at 7:27 pm

      • Tolstrup

        A work coach gets taught by a civil servant whose taught by a minister. the minister is taught by a teacher,book. The teacher and the author are taught by a teacher/book.That teacher,that author are taught by a teacher/book.

        Can you see where im going here and how it all goes on and on and on and on and on right back to our first ancestors. It actually goes further than that as do you consciously breath (have to think about it like your thinking about my post now ?

        Conditions,conditions,conditions and on and on and on till if we accept the scientific consensus the big bang.

        Even free will is shaped this way as is everything.

        Now dealing with DWP would you like to see what applicants are faced with who apply to work for DWP. A competency framework that i suspect unless you’ve already seen it, will surprise you as it has little to do with math and English.

        https://gcs.civilservice.gov.uk/professional-development/competency-framework/

        Ignore the page and go straight for the pink righting stating ” civil service competency framework”. Click on it (not the download version) and have a read what government expects from its civil servants prior to even allowing them to push forward there application.

        doug

        December 5, 2016 at 8:14 pm

      • @Doug

        And there are born idiots and twats that seem to relish doing awful things at the behest of their employers trying to please them. But in my experience most people are better than that. Check out the link below for an example of supreme twatishness above and beyond the call of duty:

        http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2014/12/21/sandra-gives-the-game-away-jobcentres-given-sheriffs-stars-for-hitting-benefit-sanction-targets/

        Tolstrup

        December 6, 2016 at 5:06 pm

    • Myself I don’t care who looks at what webpage I look at or have ever looked at, of course many people have said “I’ll stop using the internet” but will they.

      news seeker

      December 5, 2016 at 12:28 pm

    • And here’s an update to the above which has to be seen to be believed:

      https://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2014/12/17/pauline-got-promoted-dwp-management-psychobabble-is-turning-jobcentres-into-cults/

      No wonder some Work Coaches behave like cocks.

      Tolstrup

      December 6, 2016 at 5:17 pm

  6. I know people who can’t use a computer because of learning difficulties, you could show them how to use 1 a thousand times it would go in one ear and out the other, they simply wouldn’t get it.

    Marie

    December 4, 2016 at 4:35 pm

    • Crikey Doug you dont half waffle on sometimes…..

      foxglove

      December 4, 2016 at 7:07 pm

      • And being vague and trivial in one sentence like you just have makes you somehow a better person then,interesting.

        doug

        December 4, 2016 at 7:58 pm

      • sheep vs work coach/ dog

        superted vs workcoach

        superted

        December 4, 2016 at 8:46 pm

    • There are also many people who are not interested in computers.

      news seeker

      December 5, 2016 at 12:12 pm

      • Indeed, and people who are forced to use them by the Jobcentre when they don’t want to.

        Andrew Coates

        December 5, 2016 at 1:07 pm

      • And there will be many who will never be able to use them properly or want to have anything to do with them. Which should be their right. Like choosing to learn to drive or not. Or getting a passport or not. It shouldn’t be compulsory.

        Tolstrup

        December 5, 2016 at 7:34 pm

    • Also epelectics. They have too avoid flashing images. Computer screens can trigger fits.

      middlesex

      December 6, 2016 at 12:19 pm

  7. Politician and journalists shot dead in Finland

    http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/politician-and-journalists-shot-dead-in-finland/ar-AAl7Jez?li=AAdeCd7&ocid=spartandhp

    Oh dear, mistrust in government and media has just taken a new level.

    doug

    December 4, 2016 at 4:51 pm

  8. Not at all Doug,i was pulling your leg,some of us at the back of the class can’t keep up with you!

    foxglove

    December 4, 2016 at 9:38 pm

  9. Where have all the jobs gone? When I looked on UJM there were only 57 jobs listed within a 20 mile radius of my postcode. That’s 57 jobs in 1,256 square miles! And when you look closer a lot of the jobs are much further away than 20 miles. Makes me wonder if UJM pads out search results with jobs way outside a search radius in order to make it look as if there are more vacancies available than there are. How the heck can anybody spend 35 hours a week looking for work when available work is drying up and evaporating? And is this a sign of the economy starting to stall?

    Martin

    December 5, 2016 at 9:12 am

    • I saw something similar he in Ipswich. There is a telesales / call centre not too far fro here that handles calls under one name and sells or if you like annoys under another. If they want say 10 call handlers. Instead of putting ONE advert saying CALL HANDLERS REQUIRED. They put 10 adverts saying Call Handler Required. They are in the Great Blakenham area BTW

      Busby

      December 5, 2016 at 9:34 am

      • Yes. And often you get the same job advertised by loads of different people. When I looked at UJM one job for a “Production Operative” looked as if it was being advertised by the employer themselves and several other agencies and job boards, e.g., Reed, CV Library, Winners, Wise etc. Same location and job description so I assume it was the same job being touted. My goodness byt UJM is an utterly crap job board. It doesn’t even allow tabbed browsing so you’ve got to go forwards and backwards all the time like sites designed ten or fifteen year ago. Absolutely shite.

        Martin

        December 6, 2016 at 9:28 am

    • So much for the 1 million jobs a day some troll here once mentioned.

      Also remember and this does not effect the ball spun by that troll and government alike, its christmas and the closer you get, they drop off like flies.

      Haven’t claimants applied for jobs recently only to be told the position has gone or the employer has withdrawn it. Applied to a recruitment agency, told to come to register only to not be offered the job they posted, infact no job at all ?

      In connection to busby’s post of 10 exact same jobs. while often its the same job, even when it is 10 jobs in the same workplace, dont you find that strange. I mean does the poster drive the longest way to work or the shortest. Wheres the conservation factor as if they had to write it by hand like the old jobcentre days, do you imagine them doing that 10 times ?

      doug

      December 5, 2016 at 8:24 pm

      • You need to be careful of private employment agencies. Some are good but some are terrible. The worst ones will get you to travel miles thinking you were going to be offered a decent job with a good rate of pay, photocopy your identification, make you register with them (and sometimes take one or more tests) and send you home again without a by or a leave. Then one morning, early, they’ll call you up and send you for a day’s work miles away there and then at the drop of a hat! Without warning and without any notice or concern as per how you’re going to travel from where you live to this place of temporary employment! Basically agencies like this want to get as many desperate people on their books as possible in order to pimp them out to employers as casual labour, as and when they can make some money out of you. Mexicans used as cheap labour in America must feel like this. Often you are treated like dirt and worked like an animal as companies paying the agency much more than usual for your labour try to squeeze the last drop of work out of you before they lose you. Usually the employer themselves don’t pay you a wage directly but pays the agency who pays you a lot less than they receive. Basically agencies get fat by exploiting you as sweated labour; you are effectively like a bonded slave to them while you are with them, have few rights, and can’t resist much of what they do to you.

        After three months with one of these spiv outfits I was worn down to the bone and only escaped the chain gang by finding a full-time job which got me off their books for long enough to be able to tell them to get stuffed.

        Unless you enjoy being given the run around and treated like shit steer clear if you possibly can.

        And definitely avoid the ones offering minimum wage menial work like cleaning, picking and packing, especially in factories and warehouses. They are the worst usually, The dregs. The bottom of the fucking barrel that send you to hell even though you’ve done nothing bad enough to deserve it.

        Martin

        December 6, 2016 at 9:19 am

      • Ken Loach made a film about this: It’s A Free World

        Worth watching 🙂

        Available via torrent and ‘streaming’ no doubt for ‘doug’ 🙂

        The Streamers

        December 6, 2016 at 10:02 am

      • This is why ‘claimant commitment’ has the same shit ‘warehouse’ and ‘retail’ on it 😉 And ‘register with agencies offering shit work’ 😉

        Clay M Ant

        December 6, 2016 at 10:14 am

      • This is why EVERY JOBSEEKERS ‘claimant commitment’ has the same shit ‘warehouse’ and ‘retail’ on it😉 And ‘register with agencies offering shit work’😉

        Clay M Ant

        December 6, 2016 at 10:15 am

      • It is these shitty agency warehouse etc. jobs are what jobcentre cock roaches are trying to trick and coerce their victims into. That is why they set the trap with putting ‘warehouse’ etc. and ‘register with shitty agencies’ on the ‘claimant commitment’. And then have a look around in the ‘jobclub’ and EVERYONE is applying for shitty agency warehouse etc. jobs.

        TV programmes such as ‘Inside Amazon’ exposed how these ruthless bastards exploit their staff, walking 100 miles a day in the dark. Amazon is Germany was also exposed for treating their staff like shit so it is not a problem unique to the UK. This is the abominable conditions that these cock roach bastards sat on their fat arses in their cushy offices on their fat salaries are trying to drive jobseekers into.

        Fuck the Jobcentre

        December 6, 2016 at 10:26 am

      • I have received many emails with “the position is no longer available” agencies are useless, where I am well I won’t say any more.

        news seeker

        December 6, 2016 at 10:38 am

      • Clay M Ant

        If you look at the welfare reform act section 17 3(d) work search requirement your see registering with an employment agency forms a part of it.

        http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/5/section/17/enacted

        If claimants are to register with one i would suggest established brands likes Hays of brook street and especially ones that have not been in the media spotlight like best connections or transline in the case of sport direct.

        Ultimately though its the claimants choice and do remember to read the contract prior to registering as you might not find it favorable. If this is the case like essential recruitment for example that seek to get the person to allow them to use there personal data outside of UK law (meaning DPA cant protect you), then you can lawful abstain as a contract must be mutually beneficial to both parties. In these cases approach the agency and ask for them to rewrite contract with such a term removed so you can agree. You cant legally make a agency do this but if they say NO then it is THEM and not YOU that could not reach an agreement.

        doug

        December 6, 2016 at 11:00 am

      • From the reviews: “We all know that the world is built on money and that if it can be done cheaper, someone will try and do so regardless of the non-financial costs.” Spoiler Alert: There is a scene in the film where one of the Polish guys says: “One of my friends got sliced in two. But you don’t give a flying fuck so long as you can buy a new mobile phone.” Just like that poor guy that Working Links sent to the docks – he was DECAPITATED! And just like those cock roach bastards in the job centre, they don’t care if they are sending you to your death just so long as they get their bonus. Bastards the lot of them!

        Wage Slave

        December 6, 2016 at 12:07 pm

      • F the jobcentre

        While a work coach can suggest a particular vacancy, it does not dictate even if you had the transferable skills, that you would be any good at it and retain employment. A person can only work to the best of there ability,not that of others who seek targets and the reason for that is you are what you are.

        Many a person has started a job with the best will in the world only to find there let go a short while down the road, not for there behavior, or there will and ability to turn up everyday on time but because of how they didn’t manage there workload as an employer would wish and tries to set with targets.

        Just because someone might be able to do 40 tings in one day does not preclude others only doing 20.

        doug

        December 6, 2016 at 12:11 pm

      • One of the very worst of the worst employment agencies is called The Best Connection. Avoid at all costs!

        Martin

        December 6, 2016 at 4:36 pm

  10. And this is exactly thge problem with supporting representative democracy: it’s false hope.

    Don’t get me wrong Ms Black seems a decent person, but it was absolutely obvious this bill would get shut down, and that’s exactly what happened. All she has, unwittingly, done is raise false hope and divert attention away from proper focussed direct action. That’s the only thing that has any chance of getting real change.

    Corbyn will be exactly the same.

    ghost whistler

    December 5, 2016 at 9:42 am

  11. Health, welfare, and the state—the dangers of forgetting history.

    Recent public policy in the UK has been dominated by a discourse which asserts that public expenditure on universal health coverage and welfare is a burden on the productive economy and unaffordable in what has been deemed a time of austerity. There is a widely held assumption that universal welfare provision, as offered by most modern welfare states, is a luxury, only afforded since World War 2 by wealthier economies. According to this view, if the productive efficiency of the economy falters, then this luxury should be trimmed back aggressively.

    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(16)32429-1/fulltext

    news seeker

    December 5, 2016 at 12:48 pm

  12. so did i get a sanction the answer is nope did they get the letter from the place i went to nope nothing on the system that they can see, new adviser mind lol.

    can i get my bus fair back for the course, what course? looks on system and says nothing is there regarding a course pmsl.

    so just goes to show they got the letter all right and then as they have no leg to stand on sanction wise removed the hole thing from the system like it never existed in the first place now thats a new one lol.

    superted

    December 5, 2016 at 1:08 pm

    • superted

      if you really want to stick it to them demand a intensive electronic investigation from the Inf Act Team at [see whatdotheyknow]:

      – who removed the documents
      – when
      – why
      – under what authority did they act

      this is a yuggly F-Up they’ve done – its a breach of the information act in altering/creating information without your permission about yourself [no, no one has permission to do this in law – it is in fact a criminal offense]. Also it is a breach of the civil service code in how they handle information [see previous]. Also its biggly F-up as it could show harrassment/fraud in denying you the fares back… consult the Civil Legal Aid line. I’d be looking for substational compensation from them

      I am loking at what they have done with disbelief at thier stupidity

      Gazza

      December 5, 2016 at 4:07 pm

      • i know i got um buy the balls now why i was dumped on to a new adviser and why i demanded i got that letter when i went to the provider pmsl.

        i did say if they had 1 less iq point id class them as plants.;)

        new adviser also said i had to give them my email address and showed them the foi about it.

        then said i will give you a job seekers direction to prove that i do have one so said ok thats fine.

        i then handed my phone over to show the jobs i have applied for on ujm and said that was fine.

        so said if you are fine with that does it not prove i have a email address as i need one to open an account.

        and did you not read or understand the foi request i have just shown you ? no answer and no job sneakers direction as the printer broke down done my new cc just fine b4 tho pmsl.

        i cant understand why ppl dont fight these morons as there thick as shite i have power over them not the other way round.

        o and i have to put the date on my job search so i will not and see if they can give me that in writing that states its mandatory.

        because it is not and they can not dictate to me how i provide job search record.

        superted

        December 5, 2016 at 4:22 pm

      • Superted, everyone human being isn’t the same!!

        news seeker

        December 5, 2016 at 5:48 pm

      • i.e, not everyone can fight them or anyone else.

        news seeker

        December 5, 2016 at 5:52 pm

      • well they best start learning as it will not end well for them that is for sure as i have been there and got the shirt.

        no one is above the law not even the dwp and when you confront them with it they soon back down and if they have removed that info from the system then i will have them.

        whats the bets that my new adviser will say next year o look we have a its in my hands course to go on and its mandatory.

        now that will be funny pmsl 😉

        superted

        December 5, 2016 at 5:59 pm

      • When you get a sudden change of cock roach like that in ‘suspicious circumstances’ you know they are up to something. Changing your cock roach is the joke centre way of attempting to cover their tracks. The ‘new’ cock roach can just ‘play stupid’ and try and make out you must be imaging stuff: “Course, what course?” Jeez, the fucking evidence is on this site for fuck’s sake! It is indisputable! Bastards of Hell!

        Cockroach Exterminator

        December 5, 2016 at 7:57 pm

      • Jeez, even the letter that the joke centre pretend to have no knowledge of is on this site! It’s a slam-dunk case! The joke centre have been caught out bang to rights! Joke centre: GUILTY AS HELL!

        Cockroach Exterminator

        December 5, 2016 at 8:03 pm

      • piss me off it did got already to give them holy shit and poof its all gone from the system and set this up weeks ago with another adviser as was in sheep mode.

        soon as i got them where i wanted they took the ball away 😦

        unlike most i do enjoy going to sign on as its so funny what crap they utter from there heads as most of the time its total bollocks and as for law and what they can and cant do they just seem to make it up as they go along.

        well that shite will not work on me and it never has see how long this one lasts b4 i send it round the twist 😉

        superted

        December 5, 2016 at 8:09 pm

    • Never thought for a second you would lose superted as when your right, your right, RIGHT.

      doug

      December 5, 2016 at 8:28 pm

  13. Andrew Coates

    December 5, 2016 at 3:56 pm

    • Another excuse to target many more people.

      Most barriers to employment we face today we’ll see come tumbling down in April next year, though not with the intention of getting us into paid employment with all the usual benefits, some of those barriers already disappear when asking to volunteer. I have rheumatoid arthritis but I haven’t, see what I mean.

      news seeker

      December 5, 2016 at 5:44 pm

    • So only working people can be overweight, eh? Will benefit claimant have to have their BMI monitored in the Jobcentre? Have to step on a scale or similar when signing or being interview in order to determine whether they were a healthy weight for their size and age? Or will Work Coaches just size them up by looking at them? This daft idea isn’t going to get anywhere is it folks? It isn’t a new idea and has been thought about before and dropped for obvious reasons, mainly being that medical intervention in this country still currently demands consent from the patient, except in cases of diminished responsibility. Anyway, here’s a blast from the past, 2014 in fact, floating much the same nonsensical ideas:

      http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/01/03/obese-benefits-cut-westminster_n_2400708.html

      Martin

      December 5, 2016 at 6:34 pm

    • I find this very weightest! What about the under-weight? Skinny people who are too weak and frail to do a day’s work? Why should they be let off? And what about unfit people and smokers, say? Shouldn’t they be forced to exercise to improve their health or sanctioned for refusal? Incidentally weren’t they going to sanction benefit claimant drug addicts and alcoholics unless they gave up their poisons and took the cure? Have they ever done this? And what about rich fat or thin buggers who drink, smoke and take no exercise? Shouldn’t they be taxed more heavily to discourage their vices and encourage them to lose or gain weight, renounce drugs and the sauce, and take up jogging or start visiting a gym on a regular basis? Why should richer people be allowed to ruin their health in ways forbidden to the poor? Fair’s fair.

      Fatty Ten Bellies

      December 5, 2016 at 6:53 pm

    • Links between work and addiction. – D Carol Black

      The report recommends further exploration into ways people addicted to drugs and alcohol can be helped to find work, and improved joined-up working between work and health services. It also looks at the role of employers in helping secure good employment opportunities for people who have struggled with addiction.

      Dame Carol also explored the effect of obesity on unemployment but found no clear link.

      “Your success in life shouldn’t be determined by the circumstances of your birth. We are committed to helping people break down the barriers they face and secure a good job where they can fulfil their potential”.

      https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dame-carol-black-publishes-review-on-links-between-work-and-addiction

      news seeker

      December 6, 2016 at 1:44 pm

      • The perhaps DWP and dame carol will stop lining providers pockets and deal with the main barrier that is the employer.

        As come on, its been nearly 6 years since being in office and all they have done is listen to employers who said firstly it was math and English so government addressed it. The employers said it was attitude so government addressed yet still we see no change. When is government going to get it that these are nothing more than EXCUSES by employers to avoid having to admit they just dont like some people. Then there’s and there still doing it, supplying free labour to companies that can more than easily afford to pay a wage.

        So lets stop swirling around the bowl and get straight to the plughole as its long over dew.

        doug

        December 6, 2016 at 2:36 pm

      • Downing Street has ruled out adopting David Cameron’s proposal for obese people or those with drug or alcohol problems to be forced to undergo treatment as a condition of receiving benefits.

        Theresa May’s deputy official spokesman confirmed that the idea of sanctions for people who are obese or have addiction problems and refuse help is “not under consideration”, after a government-commissioned review found that there was no evidence it would work.

        https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/dec/05/report-rejects-forcing-obese-people-to-have-treatment-to-receive-benefits

        news seeker

        December 6, 2016 at 2:56 pm

  14. What a hatchet faced old witch Dame Carol Black is 😀

    Marie

    December 5, 2016 at 5:34 pm

  15. Another warning.

    Carney warns about popular disillusion with capitalism.

    The Bank of England Governor Mark Carney has warned that people will turn their backs on free and open markets unless something is done to help those left behind by the financial crisis.

    In a speech, he said: “Globalisation is associated with low wages, insecure employment, stateless corporations and striking inequalities.”

    In many advanced economies there are “staggering wealth inequalities,” he added.

    He told his audience that politicians and central bankers must act to ensure people do not lose faith in the current system. they already have Mr Carney.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38210169

    news seeker

    December 5, 2016 at 6:08 pm

  16. Obese? Want to be Sanctioned? Oh… We’ll just ignore that as its too extreme
    Never mind that the Obese Pensioners we depend on for votes will not be happy

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/dec/05/report-rejects-forcing-obese-people-to-have-treatment-to-receive-benefits?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    “Theresa May’s deputy official spokesman confirmed that the idea of sanctions for people who are obese or have addiction problems and refuse help is “not under consideration”, after a government-commissioned review found that there was no evidence it would work.”

    Now how long before the next bright idea comes along… 10, 9, 8, 7, 6….

    Gazza

    December 5, 2016 at 6:39 pm

  17. “Taking unemployment benefits is the most honourable means of resisting Capitalism.”

    — Karl Marx

    Karl Marx

    December 5, 2016 at 7:41 pm

    • Taking away or sanction, it is stealing.

      news seeker

      December 6, 2016 at 12:01 pm

  18. Extremist images ‘fingerprinted’ by tech firms

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38207977

    Now what i want everyone to do first is forget about the WORDS terror and extremism and imagine this for all uploads or should i say ones that dont support a mainstream political or governmental view.

    I say this as far to often the word extremist is banded around when someone disagrees with our very own government. Only the other day our government froze RT news accounts all in the name of Russian propaganda yet still i waiting to see the evidence they used to decide on this. Even in USA a governmental spokes person stated publicly infront of press that RT news would be treated differently to other press agencies, a statement that caused an outcry and had officials apologizing not to mention lots of support pouring in for RT news.

    Basically this is an attempt to CONTROL THE NARRATIVE as referendums,votes and views shift away from established politics.

    doug

    December 6, 2016 at 11:24 am

  19. Robots to steal 15million of your jobs

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-38214665

    Science fiction turning science fact as even highly placed individuals out how life is going to be.

    doug

    December 6, 2016 at 11:28 am

  20. YAHOO EMAIL ACCOUNTS STILL DOWN FOR THE THIRD DAY.

    http://downdetector.co.uk/problems/yahoo-mail

    Many have found yahoo email services still after third day is not working so people cant read or respond to emails.

    If a claimant has an email account do take a picture (snip) of the page i linked to as do doubt DWP are unaware and we wouldn’t want claimants sanctioned unnecessarily would we.

    doug

    December 6, 2016 at 2:41 pm

  21. Salford children are suffering malnutrition and Victorian diseases as poverty tightens its grip on the city

    Fresh cases of Victorian illnesses have been reported in Salford in shocking report

    “Many of the skilled jobs that used to sustain cities like ours don’t exist anymore. Many of the new jobs are insecure, low paid, and low skilled. They aren’t enough to provide the bare essentials.

    “That’s why we’ve seen a drastic rise in in-work poverty, foodbank usage and homelessness. Forgotten forms of poverty are becoming standard again.”

    http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/salford-children-suffering-malnutrition-victorian-11919776#ICID=sharebar_twitter

    news seeker

    December 6, 2016 at 3:39 pm

    • Hey news seeker.

      Give it a very short amount of time and you watch people start using the word FAKE NEWS.

      Nolonger able to deny the truth,say the datas old and all that claptrap, there insist its all fabricated so they can brain wash the public all over again.

      Post truth was only recently officially entered into the oxford concise dictionary

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-truth_politics

      Me personally, i like hard facts and there’s plenty of them proving not only dont government care for all the people but have been the catalyst for the results we are now seeing in public and that’s called introducing the 1929 great depression really slowly so the public dont know that government haven’t got a clue how to fix anything after the crash.

      First it was the unemployed,then the sick and disabled,then the working who are still reliant on welfare despite grafting and now as Carney says, its coming for the middle class.

      doug

      December 6, 2016 at 4:13 pm

      • doug

        don’t for get the poor pensioners, then the not so poor pensioners, [the rich pensioners will of course be exempt]. Then the lower middle class…

        “First they came for….”

        Gazza

        December 6, 2016 at 4:52 pm

      • Gazza

        I clumped the lower middle class into the working lower class as not everyone understand all the splinter of classes. As for the pensioners as i said in a post a while back on an old post of Andrew Coates are the death knoll as when government policies collapse, they always end with taking everything away from them.
        That’s why they gave it all that triple lock, deliberately splitting from welfare,etc business so they can protect there only true gravy pot.

        As yet directions towards pensioners has only been words,proposals,etc.

        When they go for the pensioners this country will know its screwed.

        doug

        December 6, 2016 at 5:25 pm

      • I think you’re right Doug, but it’s already happening with people paying over the odds for social care, home helps and, who knows, a lot more.

        Andrew Coates

        December 6, 2016 at 5:33 pm

      • That’s called churning Andrew Coates which isn’t really any different to criminals laundering money.

        If you follow the money your see what i mean and why i say they haven’t attacked there funds yet. Its also an indicator as to how close this collapse can be.

        doug

        December 6, 2016 at 5:43 pm

      • Doug I will continue to post the reality, reminding people like yourself.

        news seeker

        December 7, 2016 at 10:37 am

      • I mean I will continue as long as I can.

        news seeker

        December 7, 2016 at 11:10 am

  22. ‘I worked on Daniel Blake and now I’m living it’: Dad-of-three in dispute over benefits claim

    http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/i-worked-daniel-blake-now-12279569

    What was it IDS said about the film and how the public should think ?

    doug

    December 6, 2016 at 4:16 pm

  23. Scamming Calls – 0203

    today had two calls from 0203 883 4941. 1st answered – person rang off. That action set the alarm bells ringing. If they really want to talk they’ll call back. I then called 123 and then 100 – if its a call where YOU think you’ve ended the call but actually have not it breaks it [think unknowingly calling a premium rate number and racking up a huge bill without realising it]. At 1630 they called again, this time i said nothing they rang off.

    Checking Google it appears to be a scam number – so beware any number that is 0203 is suspect – this one via the 0203 purports to be a London number, not methinks.

    I suspect they are using the run up to Xmas to run their scam what ever it is – so if you get a call out of the blue offering something that seems to good to be true – it is too good to be true and you’re bank balance is being taken for a ride. [think send us money (you’ve won a prize/we have a cheque we can only send if you pay us etc etc) and we’ll send U a check; you’re having probs with Microsoft Windows (or some other program) – download this program which will ransom your PC; ].

    Call number now barred.

    Be careful out there people

    Gazza

    December 6, 2016 at 4:47 pm

    • This old trick again.

      Gazza, sadly barring them isn’t enough and the scammers know this as they change there number regularly. I would check all the recruitment agencies as well as i caught 2 out which one of i posted on here a while back.

      If you check them out on company house website, your see there financials are very odd for a recruitment company stating they have loads of contracts. Basically there taking peoples personal data via CV and flogging it on to people like these scammers.

      doug

      December 6, 2016 at 5:38 pm

      • doug

        Don’t I know it. Last year got a call from Houston, Texas USA. Now do I want International calls? No. So why can I not bar USA in its entirety – I am only able to do individual numbers.

        Same applies to this bogus number – why can people not bar them… unless that would damage someones bottom line….

        Gazza

        December 6, 2016 at 6:11 pm

    • I got the Windows PC call from a gentleman who claimed to be a Microsoft employee several times. What made it kind of funny is that I haven’t got a Windows PC but a Linux PC and when I mentioned this and accused him of fraud he rang off and didn’t ring me again. I think the fucker was actually ringing me from India! Where the heck did they get my name and number from?

      Tolstrup

      December 6, 2016 at 7:33 pm

      • And another one to the Block list “01386” 897631

        “01386” is apparently a Virtual Phone Number in Eversham – I had no idea you could legally spoof a number

        Tolstrup,

        not a clue – however I have a feeling my council – you know the Tory one trying to get rid of me via social cleansing – has shared it with some who has sold it on.

        One in a day? Two? Now I am getting suspicious

        Gazza

        December 6, 2016 at 7:56 pm

      • why do you think i wont sign providers paper work cos after there done with you guess what happens 😉

        superted

        December 6, 2016 at 8:08 pm

      • I had something very similar. It was a Leicester phone number: Said they were from the ”Department of purchasing and spending. Wanted to talk about premium credit cards and bank accounts. ”Asiatic Voice”. No such thing as department of purchasing and spending. I too asked for his name and location. He also rang off. I reported it to the police and trading standards. It was a scam call.

        PJB

        December 7, 2016 at 9:01 am

  24. NEED ADVICE FROM CLAIMANTS/VIEWERS/POSTERS OF THIS WEBSITE

    Can anyone tell me about group sessions being held by DWP. My only experience if it was the same session was when i first signed on. The problem i have though is no sooner had i sat down at that time,then an advisor (not already in the room) quickly came rushing in, whispered to one of the advisors in the room then asked me to leave the room as they needed to speak to me. Now what was odd was i went to leave mu stuff in the room for my return but the advisor made a point of telling me to turn around and get my stuff as i wont be returning. Once outside they said i shouldn’t be in the session and there sort my signing on through the usual one to one basis which they did. Now i had the suspicion as they didn’t say why other than there’s been a mistake, that they badly didn’t want me in that room for some reason. Now i dont remember why but i didn’t push it to discover more and naturally let it go.

    Well i have a person whose not just signing on whose now got to attend a group session. It does not form a 3 or 6 month pattern as you would expect for a review and DWP gave then no direction or details of the content of the session. Theyve got it next Monday so here i am asking FOR YOUR HELP.

    So have any of you been on one of these sessions and can you shine some light on this as apart from a few stories online i personally have no experience in these so called meetings.

    YOUR HELP WILL BE MUCH APPRECIATED AS I CANT HELP THERE STRESS IN THIS MATTER WITHOUT KNOWING IF THEY HAVE ANYTHING TO WORRY ABOUT TO BEGIN WITH.

    doug

    December 6, 2016 at 7:32 pm

    • doug

      its all dependent on the circumstances:

      Following my little “give us your email receipts and we’ll get you a job”, they stuck me on a course to deliberately get to me a couple of days later – and no it did not work. That was for over 50s course.

      There has been a few of these mentioned over on unemploymentmovement in the past – and all shady goings on. It would be wise to use Google for a search of past instances at unemploymentmovement.

      Questions to ask yourself:

      a] It must be appropriate to your circumstances [is it?]
      b] you must be informed of this in writing [Were you?]
      c] said instruction must lay out the penalties on non-attendance. [Did it?]
      d] it CANNOT be a group session sharing personal information – information act kicks in [Was it?]
      e] said Instruction must indicate it is Mandatory. [Did it?]

      If any of the above does ‘Not’ apply It would in my case mean Sheilds up ready Phasers and Photon Torpedoes, indications of Romulans loose in the sector…

      As per usual laying it out just in case others come across this ploy & therefore know what to think of/consider.

      Gazza

      December 6, 2016 at 8:06 pm

      • Gazza

        You funny you say group session sharing personal information as that’s all i could find in the net to closely match this case as this session there suppose to attend is at there local JCP office and acting instead of a normal signing on (so there signing on at this session i gather as there’s no other appointment for that day to sign on).

        They weren’t given a letter or even a mandated direction to attend. Im still waiting for this person to make a copy but apparently it was written day and time into there my appointments (the piece of paper attached to there my work plan).

        Maybe this is something new perhaps.

        doug

        December 6, 2016 at 11:12 pm

      • i have had skills condition at the jcp and then i dont have to sign anything but the ppl there are from a 3rd party company there just using the jcp as cover and still need my permission to say look at my ujm account to change my cv.

        i said no as i do not need to give it to you and not even the jcp has it and said o well i cant help you then??

        there are like 1 million cv builders on the net why dont you use one of them? or a piece of paper or pen.

        o well if you will not give me access then you are not participating and will get sanctioned. hmmm nope

        did you read the letter i have as it states all i need do is turn up to participate and have done my part and can not get a sanction for it and is my right under the dpa to refuse you access to my ujm account.

        i said dont you think i know its fraud to lie on a cv and thats why you want to change the cv in ujm as then you can change it to what you like and then have no come back as it is MY ACCOUNT and i will not give you access to it.

        if you want to give me a cv then i want it in writing. and was then told to leave because,

        i will also not sign your form so this one was on the house see ya later 😉

        i got a sanction for that and wrote a reply and after adviser had read it was put in the bin as if an adviser keeps trying and fails to sanction you it destroys there performance report o dear pmsl 😉

        superted

        December 6, 2016 at 11:42 pm

      • doug

        nope its not new – DWP pull this one every couple of months – do it, uproar on particulr sites, let it lie for a while then run it out somewhere else [knowing them calling it something else at the same time to disguise what’s really going on – coercing people to attend something they do not have to]

        I am sure that I copied it off…

        and checking today via google brings up:

        http://unemploymentmovement.com/forum/job-centre/3364-group-sessions-what-can-and-can-t-be-mandated-as-a-participatory-activity.html

        You have not been lawfully mandated to attend a group session so you do need to participate.

        The term group session/interview does not exist in legislation.

        Group Information Sessions
        34911 Generally a claimant cannot be mandated to attend a Group Information Session.
        There needs to be a clearly identified and tangible benefit to the individual claimant
        in terms of improving their employment prospects by attending the session.
        34912 If it is identified that a particular claimant needs a CV or a better CV, we can require
        attendance at something that helps address that need, but if that help is provided
        within the wider context of a general group information session, lots of which the
        claimant may or may not need or which may or may not improve their employment
        prospects, we cannot require them to attend the whole session. For example if the
        session includes advice on, debt counselling or better off in work calculations or
        conditionality information. Whilst it may be desirable knowing how work affects their
        finances it is not a specific activity that will assist a specific claimant to get work or
        improve their prospects of work.
        Vol 6 Amendment 46 June 2016

        34913 There needs to be a clearly identified and tangible benefit to the individual claimant
        in terms of improving their employment prospects and the activity must be
        reasonable in the claimant’s circumstances.
        Example:
        If a JSD states that the requirement to attend a GIS will give them information about
        European Skills Funding and it explains that the benefit for the claimant is the
        additional support available through the fund, the benefit to the claimant is not in
        attending the GIS, but in taking part in European Skills Funding. The benefit of
        attending the GIS is simply that the claimant will have more information about the
        fund and the benefits it can provide. It does not help the claimant find work or
        improve their chances of doing so.

        Note 5: A JSD should not be used to mandate a claimant to attend a Group
        Information Session (see DMG 34911).

        http://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/upl…e/537727/dmgch34.pdf

        Introduction
        3. Group Information Sessions form part of the Flexible Interventions Regime
        and can be an effective, alternative way of providing a number of claimants
        with the same information at the same time.
        4. For example, it may be used to make claimants aware of the local support
        services available to help them find work, or it may be to provide more detail
        of a specific provision.
        5. There is no mandatory requirement for claimants to attend a Group
        Information Session and as such DMA action does not apply. If a claimant
        does not attend their Group Information Session their claim must not be
        closed.
        6. The considerations outlined in the Group Session Guidance will have been
        made when deciding to utilise Group Information Sessions.
        7. It is however important to note that the Group Information Session
        environment is not suitable for all claimants and that some may object to
        being dealt with as part of a group and as such, alternatives to the group
        session should be made available where requested by the claimant.
        8. Wherever possible, the session should be arranged for the day each
        claimant is due to attend their Jobsearch Review.
        9. The session must not be used as a substitute for the flexible one-to-one
        interventions, or one-to-one Jobsearch Reviews.

        http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/123502/re…ation%20Sessions.pdf

        OR more simply :

        No you can’t [be forced].

        In your case JCP believes that you have to participate in the WSR in a manner of its choosing, which is correct if it is a one to one intervention and the requests are reasonable and lawful.

        The Jobcentre expects you to participate in a group session called a Jobclub, but you have not been mandated to do so via a JSD. Therefore, you do not have to attend the Joblcub just the one to one WSR..

        Apologies doug, just wanting to make sure all have the info they need concerning this rubbish.

        Enjoy

        Gazza

        December 6, 2016 at 11:51 pm

      • First off, i thought i was the only one crazy enough to slave away all night. Well how wrong was i.

        Gazza

        Thanks for that. if that is what it is then it sounds like this person is just sitting there taking in crap just to get to the point of actually signing on.
        I found out a little more about the one i got very quickly removed from when i first signed on and i can see why DWP wouldn’t want me in there as blatant misinterpretation of various welfare acts not to mention failing to properly disclose to all claimants in the room of there rights under the data protection act.

        So in your opinion Gazza, would you say this yet to be disclose group session could well be much the same thing as what i read on the net is people where expected to talk about personal things relating to them in front of other people and made to sign bits of paper redefining there claimant commitment like how many jobs they must search for and stuff ?

        doug

        December 7, 2016 at 12:56 am

      • AGAIN I WISH TO PUT OUT A MASSIVE THANK YOU TO EVERYONE

        You contributions in this matter are greatly received and deeply appreciated.

        doug

        December 7, 2016 at 1:00 am

    • “it CANNOT be a group session sharing personal information – information act kicks in” How does this work on the ‘work programme’. One of the first things they do, and no doubt because folks number one fear is public speaking, and to flush out information for the Jobcentre is stick everyone in a room, and go round the room: “Tell us your name, about yourself and what your hobbies and interests are, and something we wouldn’t know about you 😀 😀 “. : “Hi 😀 My name is Doug 😀 I am an internet entrepreneur 😀 My hobbies are skydiving, flying my personal Boeing 747 aircraft, formula one racing, hot-air ballooning, spaceflight, I am like a Dickie Branson on speed 😀 oh, and skiing, I just love Cloisters :D. One thing you wouldn’t know about me? Well two things actually: I have just returned from climbing Mount Everest, that was my 10 expedition. I also won £200 million on the Euro Lottery.” Of course all this is relayed back to the Jobcentre. Surely this is a clear breach of the Data Protection Acts and EU Privacy laws?

      Wotsit

      December 6, 2016 at 8:40 pm

      • its called do not sign there paper work and you are out of there i done it last week 😉

        superted

        December 6, 2016 at 8:44 pm

      • But that means the bastards won’t get their ‘funding’ 😀

        Wotsit

        December 6, 2016 at 9:00 pm

      • Honest answer, i dont know if its a group session sharing personal information like you and Gazza says as this person says its written onto there my appointments as a signing on time and date and says just group session (awaiting copy from person).

        doug

        December 6, 2016 at 11:15 pm

      • Why should you even have to ‘name check’ yourself if a room full of strangers?

        The Invisible People

        December 6, 2016 at 11:45 pm

      • I was put on that group session.Noticed it wasn’t mandated a number of people came it was a gallop through applications exe.Each was signed individually at the finish.When I was handed the letter the adviser didn’t even point out what it was or mention it.

        I think these might be generally tied into signing days.

        ken

        December 7, 2016 at 12:19 am

    • And of course if you tell them to piss off they will “ask you to leave” and report you back to the Jobcentre for “not participating”.

      Wotsit

      December 6, 2016 at 8:44 pm

      • Wotsit

        strangely in my case they are keeping me on.

        They did however try the old “We are the same as Government”
        ME: Oh and tell me when did they Parliamentary Act Creating your organization as a Non-Governmental Body pass?
        Silence. Then “but but …”
        Show me the legislation that makes you a governmental body.
        Silence – never brought up again.
        Oh, and I signed nothing [Again show me the Legislation Forcing me to give away my rights… again “but but…” then quietly dropped] when I sign in I use Block Letters [hand writing crap anyway so it changes from visit to visit – good luck saying its a bonafide signature & when I started I took a picture just in case…]

        Gazza

        December 6, 2016 at 9:03 pm

      • show them that letter might think twice then 😉

        superted

        December 6, 2016 at 10:14 pm

      • THANKS FOR THE INPUT SO FAR PEOPLE.

        This is a strange one as i have to wonder if there being lead into a hornets nest. They haven’t been told to bring any paperwork and i assume if it is acting as a signing on moment as well then at the very least this person should take in there work search evidence and my work plan like a normal signing on period.

        My concern is its literally the last working week before Christmas so DON’T want to see this person go without over Christmas like what has happened in the past year to many a claimant up and down the country.
        Also of concern is that a lower tier sanction being 4 weeks does coincide with the period DWP are usually shut and peoples signing periods around that.

        doug

        December 6, 2016 at 11:36 pm

    • Ken

      Do you remember what was on this paperwork you were given ?

      doug

      December 7, 2016 at 1:01 am

  25. http://s276.photobucket.com/user/necromunger666/media/DSC_0596_1.jpg.html

    they can not sanction you under law buy not signing there contract and i stopped them getting there £1000 fee. i have not been sanctioned they have removed the hole thing from the jcp system like i was never sent in the first place i have been doing it for 10 years i have not had to stay and do any off it 😉

    superted

    December 6, 2016 at 9:05 pm

  26. superted

    December 6, 2016 at 9:06 pm

  27. The details you provide are not shared with any other organisation.

    You can bet their shared with Jobcentreplus alright.The problem there is you don’t know whats being said about you if its accurate and true and most certainly takes the government line and from someones opinion.

    ken

    December 6, 2016 at 9:41 pm

  28. of coarse they are lol like if you are 5 mins late then they say thats fine and the next time you sign on get a sanction for it for 4 weeks.

    course has finished now so they get there fee and the jcp get there sanction bonus 😉

    superted

    December 6, 2016 at 9:45 pm

  29. I’ve been put on daily signing, and my cockroach told me it will sign on every day until I get a job, what’s the longest time they can make you do this, does anybody know?

    Marie

    December 7, 2016 at 8:53 am

    • If you don’t live near the Jobcentre make sure you get your fares reimbursed.

      Martin

      December 7, 2016 at 9:34 am

      • Even if it is just one stop 😉

        Hop-Along Cassidy

        December 7, 2016 at 11:01 am

    • Marie i once had a spat of that and usually its reserved for the homeless but DWP do use it to try piss you off.

      I simply did as they asked, always bringing in evidence of the day before and always kept a smile on my face, never once complaining about it, even said at the start of the second week that its actually helpful as im not weighed down with evidence. Basically they got tired and it lasted just 2 weeks. Ive heard from others who went through it and it lasted even shorter than my period so i cant give an absolute timeframe.

      I believe its sole purpose is to unsettle you while putting your job search under the microscope to look for ways to rattle you. Just remember to add the time spent leaving your house to do this and go home and add it to your jobsearch. They will try and say employers dont pay workers the time it takes to come to work but remind them you have limited access to online so considering there a 9 to 5 operation and they make you come in, how can it not be taken into consideration.

      Its hard to really know what tactics they will try as ive heard so many stories so just smile, be calm and smile some more and dont give them the satisfaction.

      doug

      December 7, 2016 at 1:22 pm

      • Cheers doug I’ll do as you advise, smile and not complain, they’ll soon get pissed off with me 😀

        Marie

        December 7, 2016 at 2:03 pm

      • When they did it to me I was told the main purpose was to make sure I wasn’t working in the black economy, i.e., claiming the dole and working on the side without paying tax.

        Martin

        December 7, 2016 at 2:52 pm

  30. Here’s why EVERYONE should avoid the Best Connection employment agency.

    http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews171293.html#Reviews

    Martin

    December 7, 2016 at 9:25 am

    • Martin. They are in the office block near to where I live. My very near neighbours say they should be avoided like the ZIKA Virus

      PJB

      December 7, 2016 at 9:29 am

      • They crucified and hung me out to dry for thirteen weeks. I wouldn’t treat my own worst enemy so badly.

        Martin

        December 7, 2016 at 9:36 am

  31. How bad is reality..

    Made a new claim for UC in Sept, handed over all ID, adviser – “that’s all we need”

    3rd of Nov, a letter from UC, stating that they haven’t received my ID to make a claim, phoned them and was told they hadn’t received copies of my ID from JCP,

    Sign on day, “what’s this I haven’t provided? adviser – “I don’t know”

    Sent an email to my MP, Nick Gibb.

    Supposed to receive first UC benefits 7th, DEC, today, after those 6 weeks, – didn’t happen.

    Remember that sanction I won.

    So what now? it’s to the street or suicide.

    news seeker

    December 7, 2016 at 10:50 am

  32. SERIOUSLY BAD NEWS

    Sharp readers will remember the plan announced in 2015 to shrink the “estate” of the DWP by 20% over the next few years.

    Well, here are some examples of this move in Glasgow – where a whopping HALF of all Jobcentres will close!!!!!!

    This is devastating news, because thousands of claimants will now have to travel many expensive miles and miles to their nearest designated Jobcentre – and woe betide them if they’re late!!!!!!

    Even if claimants are fit enough to walk in order to save on travel costs – and many aren’t – what happens in bad weather? Trudging through rain, hail or snow on a 7 or 8 miles return trip will be no easy task.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14951228.Half_of_Glasgow_s_Job_Centres_to_close/

    http://www.civilserviceworld.com/articles/news/spending-review-2015-dwp-cut-estate-20-government-eyes-%C2%A345bn-savings

    Devastation

    December 7, 2016 at 11:37 am

    • NB Glasgow is being used as a guinea pig ahead of the rest of the UK!

      “whistleblowers who contacted the Record believe Glasgow is being used as a template by the Government amid secret plans to roll out similar closures UK-wide”.

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/eight-job-centres-shut-glasgow-9407140

      I seem to remember Scotland being used similarly (by Mrs Thatcher) as a “proving ground” for the hated Poll Tax!

      Devastation

      December 7, 2016 at 11:52 am

      • And what about the resultant overcrowding at these re-located Jobcentres?

        Will Jobcentre personnel – and G4S – cope?

        Devastation

        December 7, 2016 at 11:55 am

      • Like certain DWP places (not sure if UK wide), they will erect bomb proof style areas for DWP staff. Currently these are used for claimants DWP deem a violent threat. They ve had these for decades.

        Of course with the plan to shut down all offices bar one per central area for paperwork/meeting,etc for very small amounts (probability 10/20 a time) all of the service will be online and over the phone.

        There plan is to shed i believe 64% of the entire staff but as we know they started that back since the reform began so an accurate figure is hard to state. None the less i cant imagine beyond guards DWP spending much money fortifying there premises.

        doug

        December 7, 2016 at 1:10 pm

    • They’ve already closed various offices throughout the UK and as we speak they are slowly but surely building up the call centres for the transition to a mostly online service.

      doug

      December 7, 2016 at 12:35 pm

      • Good comment about the future “mostly online” service.

        But how many people on benefits are computer literate enough to cope with that. I remember one Jobcentre Advisor saying many clients can hardly write their name with a pencil!

        And what about these expensive (and busy ) phone lines?

        Devastation

        December 7, 2016 at 1:23 pm

      • With no libraries as i said in a recent post, claimants will be forced to start using DWP IADS and provider PCs. The perfect way to justify sending you to a provider as those PCs in DWP are only a temp solution to full the public so they would have to farm this out is many dont have access to a computer outside of this.

        Closing libraries is a crime as i know claimants depend on them for job search but people losing the ability to self educate is far worse.

        doug

        December 7, 2016 at 1:27 pm

      • Devastation

        There will be people unable to use the online services, either messing up or completely not understanding it but your trying to deal with this as those government have a rational mind.

        There not listening, dont care so until unseated from power wont change and this is where everyday people come in. Support independents or if you dont like what there selling, become one as just because a person say is confined to a wheelchair, does not mean they dont have a valid thing to say.

        We the public are better than government be they conservative or even labour so let your voice be heard and let it be counted.

        doug

        December 7, 2016 at 1:56 pm

      • The Jobcentre already farm out claimants to ‘jobclubs’ 😉

        Farmer Brown

        December 7, 2016 at 2:42 pm

    • Gordon says:

      “None of this is acceptable.
      Under the proposals, ……….
      Castlemilk and Langside Jobcentres will move to Newlands.
      Parkhead, Easterhouse and Bridgeton will move to Shettleston.
      Anniesland will move to Partick.
      The Maryhill Jobcentre would move to Springburn.
      Cambuslang to Rutherglen.
      Well, where do we start…..? Lets go with Maryhill and Springburn. Maryhill covers a vast area. From Cowcaddens right up to Cannieburn. How are folks throughout Maryhill s’posed to get to Springburn?
      Newlands Jobcenter is not an easy reach for anyone coming from anywhere coming from Castlemilk.
      Partick is some distance from Anniesland, Shettleston is miles and miles away from anyone who’d be using Bridgeton.
      Most folks having to go to these places have to pay their transport costs. They don’t get any discounts from DWP. How are folks, already with limited means, expected to pay the extra costs, and then there is the haphazard transport systems to begin with, going from each of these areas to the other.
      This would also overload some of the jobcenters, and then there is the act most of the folks who wold be transferred are not familiar with some of these locations at all. Is the idea, to have all these ppl being late, so DWP can hit them with sanctions?
      The same DWP who dares to defend stopping a blind 60 year old’s money the other week as they sent him a letter he couldn’t read? Stopping guy’s benefit was bad enough. Defending the decision even worse!
      The Scottish Govt, would do well to demand full control of all Social Security here and now.
      Many of us have had enough of this softly, softly approach too Westminster. London is treating us with such utter contempt. Its time they stopped getting away with it…….. And this is what Kezia Dugdale is defending this very day in London. Huh!”

      Ms Suffolk

      December 7, 2016 at 1:10 pm

      • The bastards are shutting all the libraries too.

        Library User

        December 7, 2016 at 1:19 pm

  33. EU has the other day proposed blocking websites they deem FAKE NEWS.

    So all can grasp this, it does not imply only operations that run the same as mainstream media do but on a far smaller budget. It could if a government so chooses imply anything from this site, a yourtube video, a twitter feed or even a single comment.

    Governments and mainstream media are losing the votes and audience as billions globally now take the latest news from facebook posts,twitter and such and are terrified they will not get back control of the narrative of you only know what we spin to you. Newspapers and tv mainstream media audiences and revenue has plummeted since the like of facebook,twitter,youtube have been about.

    People now aren’t falling for government ball spun by our suppose to be trustworthy mainstream media. The likes of conservative,labour and liberals politicians have lost there thunder as trust in them and mainstream media is at a record all time low.

    They know that as they claimed so called conspiracies are turning up true by the second so are using words in private that we are deranged, dont know what we are talking about,etc when we know because we have there actual documents that we are very far from that. Snowden, assange are just to examples of how our very own government LIED, yes LIED to us all like in the case of we dont torture and he had WMDs.

    So its up to us the public to prevent this by opening our own website/s which you can as there’s many that are free and start collaborating with one another. This way we build a wall of unity be it welfare, politics in general, even our every day current affairs. It does not matter if they take down or block a site as you can just open another and another and by interlinking means your voice, your comment being herd, logged and remembered.

    Right here as one example, wordpress gives you a free website or blog so in the case of welfare, if you’ve been unduly and illegally treated by DWP, air it and government wont be able to pretend you dont exist and that there policies are not a case of all that glitters is gold.

    doug

    December 7, 2016 at 1:49 pm

    • Who decides what and what isn’t fake news? Will the BBC and Fox News be blocked? And what about satire? Will Sky News be blocked?

      Onion Network

      December 7, 2016 at 2:33 pm

      • Or party political broadcasts which are full of lies and bullshit as a rule?

        Martin

        December 9, 2016 at 10:56 am

    • Fakers are like the heads of the hydra: chop one off and two more sprout back. By the time anybody blocks a fake website the thing has probably been in existence for quite a while for enough complaints to come in from people who have viewed it. The site gets blocked and the fakers change the domain name and/or website name a little and start up their nonsense again under a slightly different guise. Setting up an running a fake website isn’t very hard – which is why there are so many of then – which is why trying to block them all is rendered pretty much impossible.It is the users who need to be more discriminating about what they see online.

      Martin

      December 7, 2016 at 3:02 pm

    • Will propaganda be blocked? And who decides what is propaganda? The propagandists?

      J Goebbels

      December 9, 2016 at 11:47 am

      • If you infer government and mainstream media propaganda, im afraid not.

        doug

        December 9, 2016 at 12:07 pm


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: