Ipswich Unemployed Action.

Campaigning for Unemployed Rights.

Fabian Alternative to Tory Social Security Plans Which Worsen Living Standards for Less Well-Off.

with 131 comments


Shows signs of serious research and thinking.

Published today by The Fabian Society,

Redesigning social security, for the 2020s

For six years of the Cameron government ‘austerity’ dominated all discussion of benefit policies. Now it is time to turn a page and start to consider the long-term future of social security, as part of a strategic agenda for raising British living standards following the UK’s decision to leave the EU. Politicians need to find the confidence to argue that generous, well-designed benefits for non-pensioners are essential for a fairer, more prosperous future. Social security for pensioners is now on a strong and sustainable footing. But the system for non-pensioners will be worse in 2020 than it was in 2010 – and will carry on getting worse, unless policy changes. We can allow this to happen – or we can turn social security around, by applying the same strategic approach to policy making as the Turner Commission on pensions did in the 2000s.

Labour List reports,

The UK is set to see a sharp rise in child poverty, worsening circumstances for low-income families and a crisis in homelessness unless there is significant change to the Tories’ social security plans, the Fabian Society has found.

The think tank calls for “root and branch” reform of Britain’s social security system, rather than tinkering with individual policies, to avoid it getting even worse throughout the 2020s

For Us All, published today, shows there will be almost no affordable housing for low income private tenants in most areas as a result of the Government’s housing benefit policies. The report also concludes the number of children living in poverty would return to the levels before Labour launched an assault on the issue in Government by 2030.

It goes to on show low income families are set to receive significantly less than the state than middle income families by 2020 due to tax-free allowances being significantly higher than the amount a family could receive on benefits. There will be a cliff edge at pensioner age, where the government supports couples three times more than those under pensionable age but without work.

The formation of a new cabinet gives an opportunity to change the direction of social security policy, according to the Society, who recommend a system resembling our successful pensions schemes.

Andrew Harrop, General Secretary of the Fabian Society, has called on politicians to consider the long-term health of the UK’s social security system.

“For six years of the Cameron government, ‘austerity’ dominated all discussion of benefit policies.

“But social security for non-pensioners will be worse in 2020 than it was in 2010 and will carry on getting worse in the decade that follows, unless action is taken.

“It is time to turn a page and start to consider the  long-term future of social security, as part of a strategic agenda for raising British living standards.

“Politicians need to find the confidence to argue that generous, well-designed benefits for non-pensioners are essential for a fairer, more prosperous future. Our political leaders can grasp the nettle and create a social security system for the next decade, designed for us all.”

For Us All calls for  Universal, Contributory, privately provided and means-tested elements to the security system, much of which should be increased to match the costs of living.

This would include increases to universal credit to match higher costs of living, reductions in student loan repayments according to a person’s contributions through national insurance and the creation of a basic income as a level from which other support is built up.

The report follows analysis from John Healey which shows that if homelessness from the Conservatives continues at the current rate, 80,000 families a year will become homeless by 2020 as a result of rising housing costs and cuts to housing benefits.

The Independent also carries the story:

Tax free allowances ‘must be axed to pay out modest basic income’, radical welfare blueprint suggests

The Fabian Society says a new ‘individual credit’ payment should be paid on top of other benefits.

Tax-free allowances should be scrapped and the money used to pay a flat-rate benefit to all adults, a radical new welfare reform blueprint has suggested.

The proposal, drawn up by the Fabian Society, is part of a proposed shake-up of the welfare system the think-tank says is required to stop tens of thousands of people falling into poverty over the next decade.

The report’s authors reject the idea of a “fully-fledged” universal basic income – the increasingly prominent idea of grouping all benefits spending into a single flat-rate payment for all adults. They warn such a plan would create too “many losers and not reduce poverty or improve the incomes of those with the least”.

But the Society’s researchers say a similar flat-rate “individual credit” for all adults that sat alongside the existing benefits system could “significantly reduce poverty and increase low and middle incomes”. They say child benefit could also be integrated into the same system, with a “child credit” paid to a child’s main carer.

“At this time there is not a good case for integrating universal credit, tax allowances and child benefit into a single flat-rate payment for each individual (ie a ‘basic income’),” the report’s authors write.

“There is growing interest in the idea, which has the merit of reducing the employment disincentives, complexity and intrusion associated with means-testing.

We leave it to readers to judge the proposed system based on this rather than a rejigged existing system.

Download here.

After considering a ” a more generous version of the status quo” the author moves to another possibility:

“The second option is to start to integrate taxes and benefits and build a tiered system of support which blends universal, contributory and means-tested entitlements, as well as private action. This option is closer to Beveridge’s original vision of social security, and to the pension system of today.”

This report has assessed means-testing, contributory benefits, personal accounts and universalism one-by-one, as alternative options. But the end-point might be a single system that unites them all. This new tiered system would itself sit in a broader context of activist government, with economic intervention and public services also playing their part in securing good living standards. No one part of the system would have to do all the heavy-lifting. The four tiers of social security could be:

1. Universal: An ‘individual credit’ for adults and a ‘child credit’ for children, in place of tax-free allowances

2. Contributory: National insurance and employment based benefits that match the generosity of the state pension, and the option of time-credits, paid for by a visible and accountable National Insurance Fund

3. Private provision: Opt-out, match-funded savings accounts for all, and the piloting of income protection insurance on an opt-out or employer-organised basis

4. Means-tested: A generous means-tested ‘household credit’ that tops-up the other tiers of support and is designed to be non-stigmatising, to make work pay, to support children, to protect people unable to work for a long time, and to reflect higher living costs.

The report concludes with a section on rent:

Rising housing costs are likely to be one of the most significant pressures of the 2020s, if rents increase faster than typical incomes or benefit entitlements. So any reform to social security that is designed to respond to the changing social context must include better direct support for housing costs. Indeed, current policies will be totally implausible, if rents outstrip inflation. In this sphere, there needs to be more means-testing not less – with a generous universal credit, which better reflects housing costs. In particular entitlement must grow in line with rising housing costs. There is also a case for reversing some of the recent cuts to housing benefit, and piloting an element in UC that supports mortgage interest..

..unaffordable housing costs cannot just be resolved by means-tested benefits. Spending on housing benefit will balloon if it is the only policy tool available to plug the gap between rising rents and stagnant incomes. Action to stabilise house prices and build more homes for social rent is therefore essential, even though it lies outside the remit of this report. Similarly, action to increase general incomes is needed, so that the gap which rent subsidies have to close is Conclusion 155 less. Higher employment and better pay can play a role, but this report has demonstrated that generous social security is also essential to boost household incomes, and it is here that universal and contributory tiers could be important. For this reason, almost all the ideas in this report have a bearing on housing, in that they increase disposable income overall. They hold out the prospect of better incomes for households with low earnings. But they also offer much better income replacement when people are without work on a temporary basis. This would leave many families in a better position to meet their usual housing costs, without the need for a specific benefit, which would hopefully reduce the number of people with mortgages who need means-tested support in future. Lastly proposals to help people to save automatically will make an important difference in meeting one-off housing costs in the short-term. The scheme may also enable people from all backgrounds to save enough money for their children to have a deposit to buy a home.


Written by Andrew Coates

August 31, 2016 at 9:29 am

131 Responses

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  1. Enigma, please repost your last 2 posts from Mr Coates previous post as their quite important and people need to read them and stay informed.


    August 31, 2016 at 9:51 am

  2. Disability benefits assessor SACKED


    This disgusting, highly prejudice and i refuse to call a nurse only shortly after joining Capita, the provider for profit given a government contract to assess the health of British citizens has been SACKED.

    I personally hope this person now gets dragged before a medical ethics board as this latest revelation goes nowhere near enough to ensure she can never have access to the public again.

    Recommended also is now reporting it to the police while handing in the the evidence.

    I also urge this poor victimized couple to set up a page for crowd funding so civil action can at the very least, take out a civil suite against this woman for abuse of power and position and defamation of character.

    Lastly this creature will have to sign on probably so i ask all claimants across Derbyshire to keep an ear out for any claimant who may mention during an interview with DWP (likely to sign on) that they are a nurse as this may well be the very person. DON’T HARM OR THREATEN THEM,OR EVEN COMMUNICATE WITH THEM, SIMPLY TAKE THEIR PHOTO OUTSIDE THE DWP premises and post it on this site or a link to where you uploaded it like Instagram for instance.



    August 31, 2016 at 10:21 am

  3. DWP might have to rethink how they treat MOTHERS


    News comes to light, hardly new news, lets face it where businesses openly discriminate against pregnant workers. If that’s not bad enough their the one of the most discriminated by DWP whose benefit cap effects them most what with their abilitiy to secure work hampered by selfish businesses more interested in profit than their staff.

    Lets stop the rot people, lets keep pushing as the welfare reform begins to show its cracks like open wounds.


    August 31, 2016 at 10:29 am

  4. The person who wrote these remarks is beneath contempt.

    You wonder, with people now writing on social media the stupid and sometimes vicious things they’d have previously just kept locked inside their heads, or spluttered out when drunk, how frequent this kind of thing is.

    Andrew Coates

    August 31, 2016 at 10:30 am

    • P.I companies and digital database mining companies, some who right this second are working for both central and local government are having a field day with places like Facebook,Twitter,Instagram,etc because people just cant contain themselves. So lacks is the public even you can catch them out and how this came to light. I personally also do it when i chase businesses and dodgy politicians.

      If it already wasn’t bad enough the public don’t understand how to make things private, people like me with over decades of I.T experience (lets not forget geeks n nerds of all age groups) can easily and often quite legally, circumnavigate ones privacy controls to expose those who shall we say believe a company can actually guarantee protection AND your government is in on it aswell.

      UJM is a prime example as it acts as a toll booth as does the recruitment agencies or websites like indeed who post other job sites entries. Each are claiming second party rights to your data through whats known as IMPLIED CONSENT. This is why LEGALLY DWP CANNOT force claimants to register to it and apply through it, it matters not if they attempt to sanction you as your easily win in tribunal as no law can conflict with another as that’s legally known as SUBVERSION and while still to this very date DWP has never ever ever managed to get me even through the threat of sanction to register with UJM. Infact i have spanked them so many times, i have a hat full of legal reasons and technics that piss them off constantly.

      The claim your digitized personal and or sensitive data will be secure is a MYTH, a FALSEHOOD into luring the public to spill their guts for others nefarious and profiting making purposes.


      August 31, 2016 at 12:09 pm

      • You can’t be forced to register for UJM?

        UJM is Shit

        August 31, 2016 at 12:20 pm

      • And what’s with the DWP telling claimants who have registered to this shit but not given the DWP access to their accounts to log on to UJM in the jobcentre? Is this practice legal or is it an attempt by DWP to circumvent the Data Protection Act?

        UJM is Shit

        August 31, 2016 at 12:22 pm

      • ” the threat of sanction” – see it now though, they have obviously tried it on and you have beaten them off 🙂

        UJM is Shit

        August 31, 2016 at 12:26 pm

      • UJM is sh*t


        The legal definition of a legally binding act of consent is one which is not gained through FORCE,THREAT or DECEPTION, it matters not what your reasoning is although i advocate a logical reason should be given.

        I believe that answers both your first 2 posts questions.

        As for threat of sanction as regards me it did not go beyond a concussion of air as i travel with the law documents not that , that is necessary as its all in my head. Such is the case that the DWP advisor attempting to threaten me or attempting to hand over to a decision maker cannot do so without including the comments i made which would be referring to the law and reminding the civil servant of their code of practice which is to OBSERVE AND ENFORCE TO LAW, NEVER KNOWINGLY MISLEAD A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC, NEVER MISREPRESENT THEIR POSITION OR THAT OF THE DEPARTMENT THEY WORK FOR (its called events leading upto).

        I believe that answers your last question.


        August 31, 2016 at 1:39 pm

      • My understanding is that the DWP can force a claimant, under threat of a sanction, to open a UJM account and upload a CV (and even make it public if they’re in a bad mood) but cannot force anybody use UJM outside of a Jobcentre, because of EU privacy laws relating to cookies, or surrender their right to prevent the DWP from surveilling them online by checking the relevant box in their UJM account.


        August 31, 2016 at 1:55 pm

      • Although your quite right about the cookie law it appears you still believe it does not apply inside a JCP building for which you would be quite incorrect and you only have to think of the computers that reside within your JCP as in what is it they make you acknowledge prior to using their system Tim ?

        Have you woken up yet or is their still too much DWP cotton bull in those ears of yours as im sick and tired of repeating myself again and again as i have done and have others for years now on this very site and on other sites.

        Is UJM directly based in the room next to the JCP computer your on Tim, is that what your suggesting Tim ?

        Further more Tim you are the DATA SUBJECT and not DWP and like a wet fish right in your face, WHY DO THEY HAVE TO FORCE YOU TIM, WHY IF THEIR ISN’T A LEGAL REQUIREMENT THEIR OBLIGATED TO OBEY ?

        Wake up man, this stuff is old news, covered a cozillion times already.


        August 31, 2016 at 2:11 pm

      • And another thing Tim please explain to all us just how it is DWP cant legally force you to hand them a CV but can legally force you to upload one when we consider your CV is far more secure in a filing cabinet than it is on a server ?

        Further more Tim can you demonstrate to us all where in the EU directive/eprivacy where it stipulates the consent part of the law applies to the owner of the device and not actually the USER of a terminal regardless of who owns it ?


        August 31, 2016 at 2:30 pm

      • Here’s the “official” line about cookies:


        And here’s what they say about compulsion:


        Has anybody refused point blank to use Universal Jobmatch when asked to and not been sanctioned? In the early days it was true that people could refuse to open an account and use, before Internet Access Devices (IAD) were installed in Jobcentres, it but is that the case now. It might be. Here’s a quote from the official “toolkit” used by work coaches:

        “UJM Toolkit

        Reviewing jobsearch activity – claimant using Universal Jobmatch

        (No DWP access to their account)

        87. You may ask claimants to show: prints of any number or all of the screens/pages detailed in the paragraph 86 from their Universal Jobmatch account.
        87. You may ask claimants to show: prints of any number or all of the screens/pages detailed in the paragraph

        (Activity,History,Application History,Alerts,Messages,Saved

        Jobs,Recommended Jobs,Saved Searches)from their Universal Jobmatch account.

        88. If it is not possible for the claimant to do any of the above, or the claimant does not wish to accept cookies and so needs to use a DWP IAD, you must tell them they have to login to their account from an available IAD in your office and provide evidence of the jobsearch activity they have carried out or recorded in their account, e.g. by printing off copies of these screens/pages ”

        The last paragraph suggests compulsion is possible.

        To be honest I really don’t know.


        August 31, 2016 at 3:22 pm

      • the jcp can not dictate how you provide job search evidence and have given mine in writing have no cv and do not use ujm.

        they cant even mandate me to any provider as i will not sign a 3rd party contract and have one every singe sanction to date.

        and thats going back to when this site was not even here i have had them buy the balls since day 1 😉


        August 31, 2016 at 4:10 pm

      • Their you go again acting like an idiot all over again. Now maybe i need to slow the roll, maybe you have hearing problems Tim but all you did was produce a DWP document that has precisely no regulation to refer to in how that is so.

        Well allow me to slap you with it as clearly you didn’t hear the penny drop. The government like you MUST OBEY THE LAW Tim like,

        Data protection act – Stipulates how any person processing personal and or data and this includes government MUST ADHERE TO.


        The Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003 and 2011 although theirs further amendments , im sure you can get off your naive backside and chase them up yourself. THIS COVERS AMONG THINGS COOKIE LAW.



        All you’ve done is produce a DWP printout guide that in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM DEMONSTRATES THE PRINCIPLE OF THE LAWS to which it claims it can enforce it,SO HERE YOU GO TIM, i have,


        Like a police officer cant arrest you,like a prosecutor or defender cant act on or a judge reside over, NOTHING, I REPEAT NOTHING, IS ACTIONABLE WITHOUT THEIR BEING A LAW IN EXISTENCE TO CONSTITUTE IT.



        I hate to say it but you or any claimant give them the right to enforce the unenforceable procedures in your individual cases by consenting to it which is exactly what i have been telling you all along.

        Oh Tim or anyone for that matter, feel free to go and ask a solicitor about what is and is not enforceable, don’t take my word for it.


        August 31, 2016 at 7:10 pm

      • they sent me on skills conditionally again for the 20th time for help with my cv with nothing to put on it and in the letter it said i had to attend nothing else.

        turns up and said give me your cv, i said no i dont have to give you a copy and nothing on it will be the truth anyway so unless you are willing to wright one up and lie on it then its not going to happen.

        ok then give me access to ur ujm account as you must have one on that to apply for work on that site.

        i no longer have an account and if i did will not give you permission to access it same as the jcp because you are a 3rd party company for profit.

        hmm well if you dont give me access then i cant help you? why is that then there are plenty of free sites that you can make a cv on why cant you use one of those?

        starts getting pissed with me now and says if i dont cooperate then i will get a sanction.

        for what?

        not taking part.

        how is that then you have my name address and said im more than happy for you to do a cv for me but you are not willing to do so unless you use my ujm account to change whats on there, there are plenty of other free sites you can use to make a cv for me.

        i also take it i will have to sign your paper work so you get paid for this interview and as you are a 3rd party company for profit its not going to happen.

        also your attempt to get access to my ujm and change the cv on there is your way round the dpa thus why you will not use a free cv builder lie on it and give me a copy as its fraud to lie on a cv thus wanting to use my ujm account that i dont have o dear.

        and as for the sanction its not going to happen as all it says is to turn up and i did my part you are the one not willing to cooperate good luck with that one.

        was then told to leave.

        2 weeks later get a sanction for non attendance wtf pmsl and the adviser shows me a note written buy the sc adviser that i will not give them access to my ujm account.

        well that shows i did turn up then sanction dropped hahahahha


        August 31, 2016 at 7:41 pm

      • Hi yeah superted, we don’t hear from you that often these days, hope your health isn’t to bad ?

        Sorry to hear DWP still trying to force claimants to meaningless skill condtionality courses but as usual i see your still beating them with a stick of common sense laced with law.

        Its funny but you mentioning it reminds me back when they tried it with me, oh the fun had and to think oh terrible me was the reason the place no longer exists, what with me and my big mouth telling every claimant how to circumnavigate it as they wont do crap if they cant secure SFA funding and they cant do that unless the claimant fills in the funding sheet the provider tried but miserably failed to hide as such that low and behold requires the claimants legal consent.

        Now someone like Timmy please can i have some more sir would probably pipe up with more DWP toilet paper claiming at the top of his insignificant voice “its failure to participate” without any notion to realize hold on here, why have i got to sign paperwork giving away my rights to this provider to process my personal data, surely when i did that day one at DWP that would cover it, after all, this provider is in the employ of and working on behalf of DWP so must have the very same rights they have, Surely DWP would have handed them that data if it was legal to do so, after all, they knew my name,knew i was unemployed.

        Im sure also Timmy does not realize that theirs actually no legal requirement for any claimant or member of the public to have or use a CV, not to mention theirs absolutely no statutory ruling as to what actually constitutes what a CV should look like meaning i really could put in on a bit of used toilet paper and theirs nothing DWP or lord god (sorry god) can do about it.

        Take my personal CV that DWP hasn’t got period anywhere be it filing cabinet or computer file it only has my first name and a email address at the top so no physical home address or care of address, no phone number, no company names and could quite frankly be anyone’s and get this. Despite all that its encrypted so unless i give you a key you cant read it anyway let alone prove whether or not it actually contains any data whats so ever. I particularly like the encryption as in damn it if UJM wont except it to load up, it really upset DWP i can tell you. They were so angry, so frustrated, so helpless with nowhere to turn i swear i almost shed a tear for them so i did,hahaha.

        All i do with UJM is pick all the ones with email address/phone numbers (theirs tons, especially now employers and recruiters know UJM cant be trusted) and the ones that don’t i track down on the internet and email them through their own websites contact addresses and thus completely circumnavigating DWP system altogether irrespective of the fact DWP cant find just cause to make me sign up as i already demonstrate i am using it confidently without loss of opportunity, another things that pees them off.
        With all the other sites like jobsite for instance, my CV is a blank sheet with a quick note about dew to cyber threats i will only supply an email address to contact me which employer and agency alike have no problem with so my entire application process is done through my email account and like i said in an encrypted manner Ive trained all in sundry to just get use to as no one wants a discrimination civil suite now do they. To be blunt its not until im at an actual point where ive already been selected for the job meaning their offering it to me does any one actually get my full personal data and its been like that since year dot.

        But hey what do we know superted when compared to the almighty ineffable god that is Tim, forever infallible with his DWP ten commandment toilet paper. I swear i can hear the heavens roar with his majesty.


        August 31, 2016 at 10:00 pm

      • Here’s what Wikipedia has to say about UJM:

        “It is not a requirement to register, and anonymous searches can be made by people looking for jobs and applications made directly to companies that have posted their contact details. However, as of 01/03/2013 JobCentre Plus advisers can, if giving a good reason, require JobSeeker’s Allowance claimants to use the site through a JobSeeker Direction. If they refuse to comply, they can be recommended for a benefit sanction. A decision-maker takes the final decision over whether benefit should be removed, which as a consequence of the UK Governments Welfare Reform Bill of 2012, may lead to a loss in State Benefits for up to 3 years.

        Registered users have the option to allow the DWP to have access to their accounts. Whilst this is not mandatory, claimants are threatened with a sanction to do so to aid their jobsearch activity and to enable the DWP to monitor claimants’ activity.”

        And it certainly looks as if people have been sanctioned for not using UJM enough or refusing to use it:


        As per compulsion:


        Does anybody know of a case where a claimant has refused UJM, been threatened with a sanction, maintained their position and not suffered a sanction? It’s difficult to know with the DWP because they mislead their own staff, claimants, and half the time seem clueless about what is legal or not themselves.

        People should be careful though.

        Sanctions these days are very severe indeed.


        August 31, 2016 at 10:06 pm

      • Oh i didnt see the bit about does anyone know someone whose never been sanctioned for not having a UJM, well hello your talking to one.



        Now i don’t personally use this, as i said i prefer using pure law but as this i feel may be a handicap of yours have pulled this up for you as source reading material.


        August 31, 2016 at 10:25 pm

      • AND this is what it still says on the UJM front page tot his very date.



        August 31, 2016 at 10:28 pm

      • Oh will someone for the love of god tell Tim about trusting Wikipedia and how it can be altered and has been many times in the past for nefarious reasons as he cant take the hint from me that he does not know what he is talking about let alone how the internet works in terms of sources and as such is giving claimants bad advice he cannot substantiate which i have proved by him not being able to answer a single damn question i put to him not to mention it appears has some what turned tail with may i add no apology for either being wrong or willing to admit unable to understand law and how it applies to everything DWP or any government department do.

        Now maybe its me but ive never seen anyone proving a point ever post DWP toilet paper guides to stress they cant be wrong let alone relies on Wikipedia. This coupled with the sentences he gave i quote,

        ” People should be careful though” and “Sanctions these days are very severe indeed” might suggest hes a DWP mole trying to co hearse visitors to this site to follow DWP mantra without question.

        Be on notice Tim as im watching you from now on so every post you make, i will be their to add to it to rip it apart to expose any cancerous tumors you try to grow.


        September 1, 2016 at 12:25 am

      • As far as UJM goes the DWP says one things and some individuals say another. Here’s an interesting FOI request in which the DWP claims, in writing, that it can mandate the unemployed to open and use a UJM account and force them to use an Internet Access Device in a Jobcentre, accepting cookies, to do so.


        Personally UJM isn’t a big enough issue to me to cause waves about other than refusing access to my account to the DWP, which I always do anyway objecting to being tracked or monitored online by anybody. It really is difficult for me to accept, even if true, that Jobcentres and the DWP, a department of government after all, would deliberately lie to people so brazenly and openly. Jobcentre staff I could well imagine getting all sorts of things wrong, a lot of them don’t seem to know what day of the week it is, but it seems incredible to me that anybody would intentionally lie to a member of the public.

        Anyway I can only speak from my own experience and am not an expert in these matters and certainly wouldn’t want to pretend to be. My attitude has always to approach these matters cautiously because firstly, if you appear overly uncooperative life usually gets made difficult for you very quickly, with repeated appointments at the Jobcentre and enrolment on pointless courses and such like (quite possibly because they suspect you might be moonlighting) or even a sanction which, even if you get the decision overturned, can leave you strapped for cash for weeks or months at a time.

        For me Universal Jobmatch isn’t an issue worth making a fuss about since if you deny the DWP access to your account your Work Coach (and others) can’t monitor your activities, cannot leave messages for you (to apply for vacancies or whatever), and cannot easily trip you up or incriminate you. I do believe that the DWP can monitor your logons so if you say you are using UJM but are not logging on that might be discovered.

        That’s my opinion as an inexpert layman currently in the same sinking boat as many.

        If government departments, like the DWP, start deliberately deceiving people it would be a tragedy for all.

        Goodnight and good luck.


        September 1, 2016 at 9:26 am

      • Tim the DWP like Gov have been lying to people for years, there isn’t what they call a mistake, it’s all meant, & meant to trip people up, all JC advisers are told to do what they do, – they are told to lie to people.


        September 1, 2016 at 10:27 am

      • Like you said Tim, you can only speak from YOUR own experience and am NOT an expert in these matters.

        I say this as yet again you have appeared to air only DWP responses rather than what prompts and what concludes which further demonstrates my suspicion as to your ability to fire a straight arrow as far as concern and care for fellow claimants is concerned. ANYWAY PEOPLE – Heres where it extends from,


        If you scroll down eventually you will find another DWP response under FOI i wish to draw your attention to that i feel Tim deliberately tried to hide.


        As can be clearly seen DWP had to concede their responses were just a view and not backed by any regulation nor actually superseded current regulations at that time.


        “If government departments, like the DWP, start deliberately deceiving people it would be a tragedy for all”.


        Interestingly at the time this was the PCS (public and commercial services) view who represent DWP union members

        “The view of PCS is that Universal Jobmatch is nothing more than a crude tool being used by DWP management to help deliver this government’s ‘scorched earth’ approach to the welfare reform agenda”.


        It also goes on to say that at that time, the governments blanket approach had to be rescinded.

        NOW SO IT IS CLEAR – time has moved on and laws amended so i strongly suggest you carry out your own regulatory checks rather than use bygone data posted on the net. Im not saying certain laws don’t still carry, just that how you use them and the reasoning under which you use them has changed.



        September 1, 2016 at 1:56 pm

      • If government departments, like the DWP, start deliberately deceiving people it would be a tragedy for all 😦


        September 1, 2016 at 2:26 pm

      • Well, if you say, Doug, then it then it must be true; I wish the best of British luck to anyone following your advice. No harm, no foul. Cheers, all.


        September 1, 2016 at 2:54 pm

      • Thanks Tim, Ive been offering out legal advice for years on this site along with many others and we’ve all done just fine but of course you wouldn’t know that as, well your pretty new to the site.

        As for well if you say doug, actually i didn’t, as clearly titled on that specific FOI i drew the readers to in regards to your response, it was, was it not titled, DWP central freedom of information team ?

        You see Tim, in life its no good just opening ones piehole as so to speak, take us 2 for example, each brought a piece of evidence to the table, granted you only brought what every claimant can already read and probably already has while bored and waiting to sign on but none the less it was not a piehole.

        I had hoped the light of yours would have switched on to question things rather than settle for the mantra but alas you seem either incapable or unwilling to which is your free choice so you are what we refer to here as ,you just cant help some people can you.

        You see everybody knows DWP can mandate a person to subscribe to UJM if that person is on any benefit pre UC and cant prove they use it competently but what does that mean Tim, what does it really mean and im not talk whatever your advisor says it is. Can you for instance when it was your turn or someone you know recall DWP mentioning any laws what so ever, you cant can you because its always the proverbial my way or the highway mantra like a scratched record,record,record.

        You see the truth is while they can they cant actually stipulate how one does it anymore than they can insist you use your my work plan book to produce evidence. In short they cant control the medium.
        Take the must load up a CV, they cant stipulate what a CV is meaning one could write a whole lot of toffee, one could withhold all personal details and encrypt the whole lot and theirs nothing they can do about it.

        Did you know a mandate expires the moment you fulfill it ?

        I know they thought they were being clever when they added the extra condition of enter ones account at least once a day but as you have proved via say printout it exists, DWP have to take your word for it that it actually does and thus makes it rather mute don’t you think.

        Did you also know as your entitled to encrypt whatever you want in this country that you cant upload it to UJM , that it refuses to accept the format, meaning the make you upload one part again rather mute and lets not forget they cant control the medium that i mentioned earlier meaning they cant then say we want you to use the onsite writer. Lets suppose as DWP are adapting these days, how do they stop you whiting which im not going to explain is and how its done incase if infact you are a plant.

        Now ive approached caxton head office more times than i can mention about allowing encrypted CV so as to protect claimants yet still to this day they refuse. Why do you think that is Tim as speaking as a person who uses encryption its no trouble whats so ever to then send a key.

        Then theirs you can open then disown, open disown, open disown UJM for every single job, another thing DWP is powerless to stop and while on the subject Tim why is UJM the only jobsite not to allow its members to delete accounts on the spot ?

        What about the profile, they cant make you put what they want down so if i put say electron manipulator and carry out my searches prior to signing in, the account does not generate a single job lead.

        I wont go on but seriously i could about how many ways a claimant can go around fu*king up DWPs best efforts under mandation, because DWP are just children of the digital age compared to a person like me, they can never compare the engineering and science knowledge that swirls around in my head all day,everyday day and so just gave up trying and im not the only one who did it to them either.

        Anyway good luck with DWP.


        September 1, 2016 at 6:38 pm

      • 6.4 We don’t accept liability for loss or damage incurred by users of the Site, whether direct, indirect or consequential, whether caused by tort, breach of contract or otherwise. This includes loss of:
        – income, sales or revenue
        – business
        – profits or contracts
        – anticipated savings
        – corruption of data, information or software
        – goodwill
        – tangible property
        or wasted management or office time in connection with our Site or in connection with the use, inability to use, or results of the use of our Site, any websites linked to it and any materials posted on it. This condition shall not prevent claims for loss of or damage to your tangible property or any other claims for direct financial loss that are not excluded by any of the categories set out above.

        you can refuse to use it on those grounds alone yet if they ask you to use a iad in the jcp you dont have to log in to look for jobs on the site. you can even use there wifi and whip out ur phone and use that.

        fact you dont even have to sign on with the digital pad if you dont want to, if it works anyway pmsl.

        if the jcp adviser said jump off a cliff its mandatory would you do it?

        when i went on the work programme that was so called mandatory until i refused to sign there 3rd party contract.

        did i get a sanction yes,what for non attendance because they cant sanction you for not signing a contract and untill that is signed they cant sanction you anyway thus why they said i never went.

        to bad i had proof so one free 2 year holiday pmsl total time on wp 20 mins. beat that 😉


        September 1, 2016 at 8:20 pm

    • “it matters not if they attempt to sanction you as your easily win in tribunal” maybe so, doug, but how long does it take before a tribunal hearing calls. As Dr David Webster said in his critique of the DWP sanction regime (on the previous page): “by that time the damage has already been done.” And you also have to chase the bastards up to pay you your “arrears”. So it all depends on your individual circumstances whether or not you can ‘afford’ to take the bastards on. One for all and all for one and all that.

      And another remark Dr Webster made was: “‘Mandatory reconsideration’, introduced in October 2013, denies access to an independent Tribunal until the claimant has been rung up at home twice and forced to discuss their case with a DWP official in the absence of any adviser – a system which is open to abuse and has caused a collapse in cases going to Tribunal.” Well, the bastards do attempt to phone – that’s fact – all the more reason to make sure that you don’t have a ‘phone number 😉 Let the bastards put it in writing!

      The Three Musketeers

      September 1, 2016 at 8:17 pm

      • after the mr it take 10 weeks to get to tribunal well mine did and i lost and when i went to sign on the next week said i was not fit for work and put me on extended sick leave for 12 weeks.

        go figure that one out lol;)


        September 1, 2016 at 8:29 pm

      • @ superted the jobcentre know about your attendance on the work programme or lack of it – they can see it on their screen when you sign on: “I see you haven’t attended the work programme for six months. You will need to contact them”… [two weeks later]….. “What happened with the work programme? Yeah, I phoned them. They said they would contact me but I haven’t heard anything back 😉 ” “OK, see you in a fortnight”.


        September 1, 2016 at 8:54 pm

      • And the thing is – get this! – the jobcentre cannot contact the work programme to arrange an appointment. So if you are ‘parked’ there is no way the jobcentre can force you to attend the work programme 😀 even though they know damned fine you haven’t been attending 😀


        September 1, 2016 at 8:57 pm

      • So in your case, superted, the jobcentre will have known damned fine that you hadn’t set foot on the work programme for two years but there is jack-shit they can do about it 😀


        September 1, 2016 at 8:58 pm

      • i was one of the first to go on it and back then provider never talked to the jcp advisers and just asked me how it was going and never said anything.

        i went for my exit report tho name ni number = blank screen hahah.

        the hit squad advisers was next and with out it never knew what to do with me.

        was sent on mwa at a shop and they paid me 10 quid to leave as i lit them up on face book and adviser never was told i was not there.

        and guess what i was sanctioned for, non attendance won that as well.


        September 1, 2016 at 9:13 pm

      • You know i swear sometimes this site is like waiting for a bus if you all know the phrase.

        Anyway three musketeers youve already hit the cant afford stage the moment you’ve had one slapped on you which is often never a case of do i take road A or road B as its as you know, hardly ever yours to control in the first place.

        We all know the benefits system is since new labour rigged and the welfare reform a tightening of that process so this Dr David Webster is just another person to join a very long list of others late to the party of hello that’s not how government described it, damn if they didn’t lie to me.

        The moment Cameron uttered the words “we will make work pay” that should have been a clear enough wake up call to all that what he meant was he intended to insure not working wouldn’t as remember at that time nowhere in his manifesto did the party intend to create the NLW and as he has absolutely no control over employers meant the hammer was only going to fall in just one place.

        Even with the NLW by 2020, the government would be making twice as much in revenue from the poorly paid than they did under the min wage of £6.70 if increments remain as they project and take no baring of rising costs. This meant those not paying taxes and NI remain a burden which is when you factor who costs the most in welfare excluding pensioners as they did, that this meant they needed to by hook nor crook attack the disabled, the ill and single parents. This was obvious way back in 2010. To be even more divisive they have used the welfare reform to manipulate and push the NHS, justice system,policing and prisons to the point that eventually the public will have no choice but to allow them to become privatized or summit to further payments towards government under different names.

        Do you honest think its all going to go back to the way it was, do you think when it took unprofitable remploy factories to support the disabled and ill into work that profit driven employers are just going to welcome them with no government sponsorship with open arms, hugs n kisses, do you think governments going to train you for a high skilled job at no charge and become not state dependent rather than move the bar of poverty to dis-include you from benefits altogether ?

        So working or not, sanctioned or not you already cant afford to make ends meet, the question is , is when you decide , you know what, i don’t have literally anything to actually lose, only had the metaphorical bread and water anyway, as until you realize that you wont realize like being faced with war, that in order to have any chance of change, you must make sacrifices.

        Lastly remember if or when you decide to go to war, just make sure your carrying the right weapons as a loaded rifle will do you little good in a minefield.


        September 2, 2016 at 12:15 am

      • “Universal Credit – making work pay”

        Seen in the Jobcentre

        September 2, 2016 at 8:18 am

      • i.e if you don’t work you won’t get paid!

        Seen in the Jobcentre

        September 2, 2016 at 8:19 am

      • Interesting hypothesis their Seen in the Jobcentre as only just the other day and its on Mr Coates recent article prior to this and was posted by one of the active regular posters to this site was a man, are you ready Seen in the Jobcentre,

        Had his benefits stopped because he was working, did you hear that Seen in the Jobcentre,


        Now this isn’t a case of maybe this person is making it up, as the original claim was posted on rightsnet by a derbyshire welfare advisor asking others for help in overturning this injustice, i know this as ive been in direct contact with this advisor, even the local politician is involved, that’s how serious and how real it is.

        Even without this are you saying the tories think their electorate (the people that voted them in) are so thick that they needed reminding how having a job pays, the very jobs their already in and already being paid ?

        Are you saying all people claiming benefits have never ever worked, not even one of them ?

        That benefits come out of a magic hat, a wishing well and not people paying taxes which by the way, comes from where exactly.

        Im afraid while you it seems may need reminding because you must have been to even contemplate the post you gave let alone posting it, the rest of us don’t.


        September 2, 2016 at 11:15 am

    • Tried to upload my encrypted CV hidden within an encrypted container within an encrypted container – you can never be too careful with all the hackers out there – and UJM wouldn’t accept it! What’s going on here?


      September 1, 2016 at 8:44 pm

      • And your point is ?


        September 2, 2016 at 12:31 am

    • The jobcentre lie through their teeth all the time:

      Roach: ” I see you have been out of work for quite a long time.”

      Hapless Jobseeker: “But, I have only been signing on for a fortnight 😦 ”

      Roach: “You are now considered long-term unemployed. We are going to have to put you onto work
      experience to get the momentum going.”

      Hapless Jobseeker: “Do I have to go?”

      Roach: “‘Fraid so, it is mandatory”. “I see that you haven’t got a phone number on the system. We need to have a contact number.”

      Hapless Jobseeker: “Why?”

      Roach: “In case a job offer comes in and we need to contact you. Besides it is a condition of receiving benefits 😉 ”

      Hapless Jobseeker: “OK, 08080 808080.”

      Roach: “We also need you to sign this.”

      Hapless Jobseeker: “But I don’t want to give the jobcentre permission to share my data with third-parties”

      Roach: “Well, in that case we won’t be able to pay your benefits 😉 ”

      Hapless Jobseeker: [signing]

      Roach: “And before you go by your next appointment I expect you to have registered with Universal Jobmatch and uploaded a public CV. You will also need to tick the boxes giving the DWP access to
      your account..”

      Hapless Jobseeker: “What if I don’t want to give DWP access to my account?”

      Roach: “In that case I will have to refer you to a decision maker for a sanction.”


      September 2, 2016 at 11:40 am


    Some will know this, many wont but government a while back under the then IDS CHANGED HOW POVERTY IS MEASURED.

    Now and already its shown up in a recent ONS outings.

    “The Office for National Statistics has calculated “human capital”, which puts a monetary value on a person’s qualifications, age, health, personality and skills, measuring the total potential future earnings of everyone in the labour market”.


    Can you see how government cant afford to have illness and disability on their books so allow crooked health assessments, keep punishing claimants for their personality and are constantly pushed into worthless courses giving poor low level qualifications ?

    Claimants for instance are only offered grade c A levels in Math and English and not full A levels to better their chances of acquiring points necessary to go onto university to learn a more meaningful and well paid job vocation. How claimants who can ill afford an advanced learners loan even when taken out are openly FORCED by DWP to sign a contract stating their give up said courses if a job offer is made no matter how poorly paid and insecure that job may be and own the debt of the course. How they openly prevent anyone from studying full time while long termed unemployed to better their chances.






    Example of a travesty

    Tories have been in power almost 6 years now and throughout that entire time this country has had mass shortages in sectors such as nursing and engineering to name but 2 trades so if your one of the long term unemployed since 2010, you could have been by now if government actually cared and wanted to support the poor and lowly skilled not to mention support those businesses with the shortages,

    A QUALIFIED SUPPORT TEACHER/CLASSROOM ASSISTANT – who now could have been taken on further A level courses to top up their UCAS points and begin studying a degree to become a qualified teacher.

    A QUALIFIED ENGINEER – in a multitude of engineering trades and also could move on to university to rise to even greater ranks.

    A QUALIFIED NURSE – if you already had enough UCAS points.

    A QUALIFIED I.T PROGRAMMER – if you already had enough UCAS points.

    A QUALIFIED I.T SERVICE DESK OPERATOR – who could now be reading themselves to study further at university to rise the ranks.



    August 31, 2016 at 11:19 am

  6. The new TTIP? Meet TISA, the ‘secret privatisation pact that poses a threat to democracy’

    Government insists ‘public services are under no threat whatsoever from this deal’



    August 31, 2016 at 11:38 am

    • “This sort of system of modern indentured labour is wide open to abuse by unscrupulous employers who may get away with illegal practices safe in the knowledge that they can threaten any employee with deportation if they complain,” the report says.

      “This sort of system is used in countries like Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Qatar and has resulted in working conditions that have been described as being close to slavery.”


      August 31, 2016 at 6:33 pm

  7. Benefit cap Info. benefits that are exempt & those which are not.



    August 31, 2016 at 11:47 am

  8. More on the Fabian plans:

    Andrew Coates

    August 31, 2016 at 2:45 pm

    • Fabian Society is the New World Order.


      August 31, 2016 at 6:33 pm

    • Social security is not important to all, that’s the problem.


      August 31, 2016 at 6:59 pm

      • Well it bloody well should be enigma…


        August 31, 2016 at 7:12 pm

      • Is it important to the Tories?


        August 31, 2016 at 7:17 pm

    • The welfare system sure needs to change but why wait until sometime in the 2020’s? but then we know what’s going to happen to many people before we get to the year 2020.


      August 31, 2016 at 7:58 pm

      • More deaths and homelessness I suspect.


        August 31, 2016 at 8:35 pm

  9. “Reports that say that something hasn’t happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don’t know we don’t know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.”

    — Donald Rumsfeld

    Donald Rumsfeld

    August 31, 2016 at 3:14 pm

    • D’oh! You took the words right out of my mouth, Don.

      Homer Simpson

      September 2, 2016 at 9:14 am

  10. Violet

    August 31, 2016 at 6:26 pm

  11. The 10 most deprived areas in Scotland:

    Communities Secretary Angela Constance said:

    “In the face of continuing UK government welfare cuts, an austerity agenda and attempts to take Scotland out of Europe, this will continue to be a long-term challenge.”

    The Scottish Conservatives said the figures should be a “wake-up call” to the SNP government.



    August 31, 2016 at 8:59 pm

  12. It’s now time to turn a page, how many people no longer exist due to the welfare reform since 2010?


    August 31, 2016 at 9:54 pm

    • Haven’t you heard enigma, the tories have solved all the unemployment and poverty in the UK ?

      Your not seeing JCP buildings with people going into them, the stats say so, poverty has gone, everyone’s rich, it just a mirage, a shimmer in the heat of a long trail of tory success you are sleepwalking through in a dream state.

      Your really a CEO for a major corporate interest having a nightmare.


      August 31, 2016 at 10:09 pm

      • The amount of people I talk to that believe all that! I do suggest them looking at Ipswich unemployed action, for the truth.


        August 31, 2016 at 10:50 pm

      • I share your pain brother as Ive been at this crap since when the then Labour concocted the flexi new deal, the first time a government actually attempted to become utter bastards towards welfare not that i didn’t have a few skirmishes back in the 90s but they were nothing in size or nature to what people have faced since new labour and Tony Blair/Gordon Brown and now Tories.

        I had hoped by now to have passed the mantle on not that their aren’t a few who did but alas the work is to heavy and long to expect such a small army to go it alone so here i still stand fighting the good fight of protecting those who cant protect themselves, researching and researching through the night whether working or not.

        Its in truth why i probably snapped at Tim who im sure means well but is just so misinformed and just so gullible which to a person like me is like a dagger straight into the chest of all i try,do and achieve.

        I even going through the motions of putting together a pod/video cast type radio show but i reckon im not going to be able to do it alone without a professional team of researchers,mathematicians,economists and such so fear it may all end if it gets off the ground looking like nothing more than those things you see on youtube nobody pays attention to. I even got musical bands and music producers to supply music for free for intros and stuff and hope to acquire a media specialist to help co ordinate and run the behind scenes of the show but this does mean i need crowd funding as i cant expect these people to do this for free for very long as their end up like me and i don’t want that for them. The question is who would fund me as those effected are to poor and those that do have money hate our kind.

        Well enough banter as i can barely see then screen what with being up since 4am and only having 3 hours kip prior. Well im off so pleasant dreams enigma and as usual its a pleasure talking to you.


        August 31, 2016 at 11:44 pm

  13. Dropbox hack leads to dumping of 68m user passwords on the internet
    Data stolen in 2012 breach, containing encrypted passwords and details of around two-thirds of cloud firm’s customers, has been leaked


    Let’s have Digital Government, with things like all UC claims done online via smartphones, to see if we can improve the 0.7% fraud rate.
    What could possibly go wrong?

    Another Fine Recession

    September 1, 2016 at 12:08 am

  14. Hi All, Especially, Doug, Superted, and Gazza who all helped in the past

    I got a phone call late yesterday afternoon, I was a bit off with him as I first thought it was another crank call of which I’ve been getting a few, he said he was from a recruitment agency and am I still looking for work and would I be interested in a certain job.

    He went on to explain where it was, what it entailed and how much it paid (shit)and how to get there, I said send me the details and I’ll have a look.

    He then said he couldn’t as it’s starting tomorrow, to which I replied I couldn’t start tomorrow and that was pretty much the end of the call.

    I’ve looked up the agency and it’s not one I’m registered with but as my details are out there anyway with other agencies It’s no surprise.

    When I thought about it afterwards, it had me thinking ‘start tomorrow without even an interview’ (must be a really shit job)

    What I’m concerned about is when I said I couldn’t start tomorrow (your supposed to be available immediately) do these agencies report you to the DWP as turning down work? and if grilled by the advisor (which will be soon) as to why I turned down a job, what would be the best response or has my paranoia gone into overdrive.

    Any thoughts or suggestions greatly appreciated, just in case I need the best reason why I said I couldn’t start tomorrow.

    Thank you.


    September 1, 2016 at 8:40 am

    • blimey2016

      If this creature decides to shop you to DWP [if there isn’t already a connection that is]
      I would take the view for yourself that on thinking further about the job offer it was not for you, also having checked around via your own contacts which you trust that this is not a good employer, if the Sanction Threat is raised simply state in writing that you require that instruction to TAKE the job in writing, pointing out that by doing so they are assuming a power that does not exist and are therefore they themselves and whoever instructs you are liable under civil law if anything untoward happens thereafter. Say it turns out these jokers do not pay people, pay tax, etc etc. I will not even get into the employers who say they’ll employ you and then try and charge you for things, I am sure you get my drift. Cannot start due o sudden health/other matter occurring…
      Questions which you should think about to explain your position are:
      Does this job suit you?
      Is it appropriate for your circumstances?
      Easy to get to?
      Pay enough to cover your outgoings? [if anyone wants to put you onto the downward slope of being poor with growing debts let them step forward and put that in writing]

      I am sure others like doug etc etc can also clarify how to deal with this


      September 1, 2016 at 10:35 am

    • I turned down a crap job with an agency a few weeks ago, it was 20 miles from home couldn’t afford the bus fare as it was only part time. I was worried sick I would get grassed up to job centre but they didn’t, got away with it 😃.


      September 1, 2016 at 11:12 am

      • Three months with only housing benefit and no other income is hard to survive.


        September 2, 2016 at 9:07 am

    • I sadly don’t have time to read all the replies so i apologize in advance if i repeat anything anyone has already said.

      Firstly who is this recruitment company and what was this persons name who called you?

      Can you pull up this persons phone number and time of call ?

      Who is the employer they wanted you to go to ?

      Did they explain who will be paying you, whether your PAYE or self employed ?

      Did they explain how you would be paid, cash,cheque, bank account ?

      Did they explain how they intend to deal with your taxes and NI contributions ?

      Did they outline dress code, health and safety employment regulations as regards the employer and yourself ?

      What did you exactly say when you said you were unable to ?

      How far is this employer from you, can it be walked or is transport required ?

      Do you actually have the funds to be able to travel to this place of work ?

      Have you since rang back this recruitment company to confirm the person exists and how they got your details ?

      Have you checked the ICO register to see if their registered to legally process your personal data ?


      Please number and answer these in order and i will study it later and return a reply to you. This probably wont be end of my questions but it provides a basis to form a discussion with you.

      I should return back around 6.30pm latest so hopefully you have access to the net for tonight so we can continue it further to see if we cant put it to bed or at the very least create hope enough for you to sleep soundly for tonight should further chasing be required.

      Im sorry that i cant deal with this now but my time has been taken up by job phone calls i made today and an arranged interview not to mention a certain person frequenting this very website who i suspect may well be a DWP plant.

      I do assure you however i will look at what you supply and discuss this with you further tonight or if you have limited internet access, a time sorted around you.


      September 1, 2016 at 2:41 pm

      • Right its 19:45 01/09/16 blimey so im going to assume you either cant make it tonight so may attempt again tomorrow or youve sorted it. Either way if you do get to read what i wrote im still here for you regardless.


        September 1, 2016 at 6:48 pm

    • Just do what coppers do: “I have no recollection of the phone call your Honour 😉 ” No one is under any obligation to self-incriminate. If it was the DWP/’providers’ who the call had been made to they would deny it point blank. Let the bastards PROVE that you received a phone call – no they can’t 😉

      “A prisoner with the least possible intelligence acknowledges as far as far as he can, every material fact, the reality of which it would be idle for him to try and annul; only he accounts for it in another way, he modifies its purport, he exhibits it in a different light.”

      — Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

      Fyodor Dostoyevsky

      September 1, 2016 at 3:17 pm

      • You should know, Fyodor. You were sentenced to death by firing squad, after all, before the Tsar commuted your sentence… to years of hard labour in a prison camp in Siberia!


        September 2, 2016 at 2:35 pm

  15. OT: MR & their misuse by DWP

    h/t: Refuted


    And the madness as DWP continues. Carrying out a MR before the original result is done/known without asking. and denying a right to appeal the obvious cockup. Nice one.

    I would prepare a nice long letter, addressed to the following – Equality Commission with regards to the Year Long Investigation into DWP and Benefits & Sanctions launched in April, All the The House of Commons Committee Members dealing with DWP, this Persons MP, Contact the Civil Advice Line for legal advice [the use of a rule which negates your rights in a way that is not Ordinary IS illegal so is discriminating in nature – the MR before the decision is a glaring example], the deliberate maladministration due to the handling of this particular case. The collusion of the officers at all levels in allowing this case to proceed as it has – there are checks in place to make sure things like this do not happen – anyone say they did check shows they did not do their job (that would be the managers). Oh, and copy in the Prime Minsters Office, as she just last week announced she was ‘concerned’ at the treatment of the less well off by Gov departments of late. Sit back, get the popcorn and watch the headless chicken show.
    By going to the Committee/MP you are invoking the 24hr rule/5 day rule. Convention is that answers must be given in a set, tight deadline period [stops MPs getting up in Parliament asking awkward questions]
    Good Luck


    September 1, 2016 at 8:47 am

  16. Work and Health Programme should be devolved to local authorities, say councils.

    Responsibility for the new Work and Health Programme (WHP) should be devolved to local authorities who are best placed to support disadvantaged jobseekers into work, say councils.

    The Local Government Association (LGA), who represent more than 370 councils in England and Wales, say people with disabilities and health conditions would be supported into work more effectively if funding and responsibility for the WHP is devolved to all local areas.

    The LGA is calling on the UK Government “to ensure it avoids repeating the mistakes of its flagship Work Programme”, amid concerns about the future of EU funding for unemployed people in England.



    September 1, 2016 at 11:12 am

    • I doubt that my local council would be worse than Working Links a private outfit that ran the Work Programme hereabouts. No real help and no training (Forklift truck course? Not enough “students” for a “class”. ECDL course? Not enough “students” for a “class”. Same ole, same ole.) Basically all they did for me was to put a lot of pressure on me to apply vigorously for jobs. I don’t know if anybody had a good experience with any of these private companies who ran the work programme. I’ve never met such a person locally I have to say.


      September 2, 2016 at 9:22 am

  17. Anti-Terrorist And Monetary Crimes Division
    FBI Headquarters, Washington, D.C.
    Federal Bureau Of Investigation
    J.Edgar Hoover Building


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    e-mail won the money from an Online Balloting System and we have authorized this winning to be paid to you via INTERNATIONAL CERTIFIED BANK DRAFT.

    Normally, it will take up to 5 business days for an INTERNATIONAL CERTIFIED BANK DRAFT by your local bank. We have successfully notified this company on your behalf that funds are to be drawn from a registered bank within the world winded, so as to enable you cash the check instantly without any delay, henceforth the stated amount of $2.4million USD has been deposited with IMF.

    We have completed this investigation and you are hereby approved to receive the winning prize as we have verified the entire transaction to be Safe and 100% risk free, due to the fact that the funds have been deposited with IMF you will be required to settle the following bills directly to the Lottery Agent in-charge of this transaction whom is located in Cotonou, Benin Republic. According to our discoveries, you were
    required to pay for the following,

    (3) Shipping Fee’s ( This is the charge for shipping the Cashier’s Check to your home address)

    The total amount for everything is $96.00 We have tried our possible best to indicate that this $96.00 should be deducted from your winning prize but we found out that the funds have already been deposited IMF and cannot be accessed by anyone apart from you the winner, therefore you will be required to pay the required fee’s to the Agent in-charge of this transaction

    In order to proceed with this transaction, you will be required to contact the agent in-charge ( Christopher Harris ) via e-mail. Kindly look below to find appropriate contact information:

    CONTACT AGENT NAME: Mr. Christopher Harris
    Email; christopherharris726@gmail.com
    PHONE NUMBER: +229-66043617
    You will be required to e-mail him with the following information:


    You will also be required to request Western Union or Money Gram details on how to send the required $96.00 in order to immediately ship your prize of $2.4million USD via INTERNATIONAL CERTIFIED BANK DRAFT from IMF, also include the following transaction code in order for him to immediately identify this transaction : EA2948-910.

    This letter will serve as proof that the Federal Bureau Of Investigation is authorizing you to pay the required $96.00 ONLY to Mr.Christopher Harris via information in which he shall send to you,

    Federal Bureau of Investigation F B I
    Yours in Service,Photograph of Director

    Is this a SCAM?! 😀

    It's a SCAM

    September 1, 2016 at 4:33 pm

  18. Enigma, if they devolve the scheme to local authorities that risks (as with Council Tax benefit) big inequalities between different areas.

    Plus direct pressure on funding as I bet they’d try and get council tax to pay for some of it.

    Andrew Coates

    September 1, 2016 at 4:37 pm

    • I can see that happening too, how much will people end up with, with sanctions on top of it all, it will only lead to even more homeless & many suicides.

      My council tax is included in the rent as is all utilities, no worries, yet, no word of my rent going up but I’m waiting for it to happen.


      September 1, 2016 at 5:20 pm

      • The scheme could easily be self-funding if councils could use the unemployed as free labour.


        September 2, 2016 at 9:24 am

    • No doubt this will also will lead to many council employees being laid off & replaced with those who are targeted for this scheme.


      September 2, 2016 at 8:42 am

      • True that. No doubt.


        September 2, 2016 at 9:25 am

  19. OT

    Readers on here will recall the scandal caused by the cover-up of the grooming gangs in the north of England.

    But how many of you have heard of the case of investigative journalist Robert Green, held in prison under bizarre circumstances for telling the truth? Link here:



    September 1, 2016 at 5:06 pm

    • Green’s “breach-of-the-peace” trial which dragged on for two years is thought to be the most expensive of its kind in Scotland – at half-a-million pounds!


      September 1, 2016 at 5:14 pm

  20. Hey Mr Andrew Coates, if you need a moderator whose free in time and cost, i would be more than happy to keep a clean website for you as im sure any of the other regulars would.


    September 1, 2016 at 7:23 pm

    • Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.

      Grammar School Boy

      September 2, 2016 at 2:28 pm

      • Indeed! 😉

        The Watchmen

        September 2, 2016 at 2:45 pm

  21. Employers and training providers to road-test the new digital apprenticeship service



    September 1, 2016 at 9:35 pm

    • Notice it is all about the employers and the training parasites, but the exploited victims aren’t even mentioned, = Fail.

      Another Fine Recession

      September 1, 2016 at 9:44 pm

    • And so at last the logic behind government abolishing C&Gs and installing NVQs comes to light.

      As ive said many a time even just recently a person cant qualify for entrance onto a NVQ without being in the particular trade their studying or have access to it and as no employer gives a skilled position to a unskilled operative, the apprenticeship makes this all very clear don’t you think.

      On one side of the fence on principle its a great idea for our youth but on the other its discriminatory towards anyone who isn’t a child who wants or needs to retrain and will also hurt colleges with the financial dip they will endure what with nolonger being able to cater for adult learners on high skilled trade courses. Adults don’t get accepted for apprenticeships as employers only get funded for our youth, not to mention cost more per hour to keep.

      It does not take 6 months to make a competent engineer, it takes years of working in the field and studying hard as no one should wish to remain just a tool fitter and while i agree they should get the same NLW as adults, they most certainly don’t qualify for the full rate which is exponentially higher.

      An additional reservation is who will these providers be as while i back colleges, these springing up every where training centers lead a lot to be desired when we consider competency of the qualified engineers they put out and i mention this as currently todays youngish engineers are shite when it comes to quality and have no passion or pride in what they do and why globally let alone the UK, the recall and failure rate of products is at an all time high.
      But so as not to solely place blame their employers are using cheap and inferior materials/parts and as you know will resort to tactics like manipulating test perimeters and data in order to make a contract reach a deadline so as not to incur a financial penalty .Also they just wont let go of this time management strategy which leads to rushing ones work and falsification of documents.

      It also i feel lacks further advancement support like going on to sponsored by the company to attain degrees so as to move up the ladder as i believe everyone should start at the bottom and work their way up rather than this pathetic pay your way to the instant top crap we are seeing currently as their as equally worse as someone at the bottom who starts out knowing nothing. Employers are learning from this flaw however and it is beginning to change.

      I have to admit so stick a pin in this but as more and more people become degree qualified and higher up in rank even if not promoted to that it will devalue their worth and so see employers drop their wages as they become all to common like apples on a tree.


      September 2, 2016 at 1:27 am

      • Seen this a at university level, graduates being awarded First Class honours in Engineering whom are as thick as the proverbial shit in the neck of a bottle. Totally useless and to an employer worth £jack-shit. ‘Engineers’ are ten a penny!


        September 2, 2016 at 8:12 am

      • ‘university’ i.e. former polytechnics.


        September 2, 2016 at 8:13 am

      • You are aware chewbacca you just contradicted yourself their as if they were ten a penny they couldn’t be shite as if they were shite, they wouldn’t even if in the job be what is classed as a real engineer if you get where im coming from.

        Also you would be hard pressed to explain why employers are struggling to hire them and have to look overseas.


        September 2, 2016 at 11:24 am

  22. Reasons for food banks?

    (1) Is welfare reform one of the drivers behind increasing food bank usage? Or does the DWP claim that welfare reform had little or no negative impact on the millions of people affected by it?

    What will the reply be of, nonsense as usual.



    September 1, 2016 at 10:16 pm

    • I would be very surprized if DWP answer that in any realistic fashion but hey who knows so keep us informed enigma.


      September 2, 2016 at 12:34 am

  23. Shipping containers COULD be a way to tackle homelessness in Wales, but at £260 per month.



    September 2, 2016 at 6:53 am

    • Those pictures make this really funny enigma as all they have done is cut out a small pieces of the side of a container, opened up the end and stuck in a support bar and a 2 door UPVC double glazed patio door set, a door and a few small UPVC windows.

      And im not joking.

      As for inside it will be interesting to see how long the interior lasts what with being stacked in 2s as metal isnt as flexible as wood meaning one too many parties upstairs will effect the interior downstairs over time.
      I would need to know how the plaster is fixed to the wall of the container and what exactly sits between it as if its properties aren’t like acoustic rubber say the effect will be amplified or at the very least offer zero protection against. As theirs electrics and the out shell is completely metal i must also question whether or not the Faraday effect applies or was even taken into account. What about electrical mechanical breakdown/bonding and testing as essentially the whole thing is technically an electrical product meaning it has to be pat tested inorder to secure no short circuits/shorts to earth occur as the human basically becomes the electronic component when we consider the container can hold a larger load than a human can and thus gives rise to a potential difference (flow of electrons). If the tenant is a slob and does not clean up their water if dropped this get exponentially worse and so question marks installing showers and baths.

      Further more as time progresses the metal top of the bottom container and the bottom of the top will break down and require the re adding of special paint to prevent things like rust and oxidation which if left unchecked would in time increase the chances of a potential risk to the tenants life. What about protection against lightening as if not shielded from our natural earth mass would make them a more attractive target than a tree. Then theirs the what happens in relation to heat, ie summer and could go on about concerns of how they were or will be constructed but lets move on.


      As you can see a 20ft container costs around £2’000 ex vat so even with say a £10’000 interior fit and im being kind here as its probably removing labour which costs if done on production could be lowered still, its very small in costs meaning a £12’000 build cost.

      Remember they want to charge a rent of £260 a month.

      So in 10 years and remember like all rents this will rise, the property developer will recoup their outlay 3 times over. So to give comparison if i build a £160’000 valued one bedroom house and charge a rent of 550 PCM in Cardiff it means by 10 years i would have only recouped around £66’000 so not far over a 3rd of the initial cost.





      September 2, 2016 at 12:27 pm

      • Shipping container house!


        September 2, 2016 at 5:24 pm

      • I bet that’s boiling hot in the summer and freezing in the winter.


        September 3, 2016 at 8:46 am

  24. The Conservation ‘Volunteers’ (TCV) are busy felling trees up and down the country to make way for community allotments. If they ever come knocking asking you to get involved in their money-making schemes, remind them of their involvement in the government’s workfare schemes. Some info here:


    Fuck the TCV

    September 2, 2016 at 7:53 am

  25. Thanks for that information on the TCV – there are so many of these groups who try to appear as ‘community’ organisations with dodgy workfare pasts, and you can imagine, other doubtful practices that need to be brought into the open.

    Andrew Coates

    September 2, 2016 at 10:52 am

    • I didnt have time to consider this the other day but cutting down trees to replace it with patches one can grow is actually counter intuitive if we consider climate change or more importantly Co2 absorption.

      You see the major plant group that in effect naturally uses and regulates the earths Co2 is trees and the reasons for that is size for required demand and leaves, the part of the plant that through photosynthesis that intakes the gas.

      With this in mind i would suggest yet again, man puts themselves before the earths climate.. Theirs plenty of land not occupied by trees throughout the UK , yes that does mean its highly likely to not be local in many a case but none the less would be assisting the reduction of climate change rather than assisting its prolonged effect.

      With this in mind i would be inclined to attack the idea rather than support it but hey, everyone’s entitled to their day in court as so to speak so would urge this TCV to produce evidence to substantiate no negative impact which in my opinion i suspect they cant.


      September 3, 2016 at 7:01 am

  26. Tens of millions of workers in India are on a day-long strike demanding higher wages and to protest against the government’s economic reforms.

    Banks, government offices and factories are shut, while public transport is also disrupted in parts of the country.

    The government says the reforms are needed to bolster the economy. same as.

    But we know the true reason.



    September 2, 2016 at 11:11 am

    • But why isn’t tens of millions doing the same in UK. as well as in every country in the world


      September 2, 2016 at 11:14 am

      • That’s because their beguiled by the average wage stat their false fed, they actually believe most earn over £20’000 per annum enigma, dont realize how the math fulcrum of the stat works and can demonstrate a picture that’s not really based in reality when you start bean/head counting.

        To live properly these days so have cash, assets, pay utilities,rents, insurance,pension,etc and save, a person/s need to earn around £31’000 per annum adjusted of course by locality and its surrounding conditions , if you have dependents it cost more.

        Hope that helps.


        September 2, 2016 at 12:41 pm

      • I understand what you mean Doug but I was thinking to change something that affects millions millions need to get out there, a few thousand isn’t enough.


        September 2, 2016 at 12:59 pm

      • It will take not just bodies enigma these days so blatant in your face are government about how they just don’t care what anyone thinks or does.

        Take Jeremy Hunt for example, that man spent all his time on politics and filling his pockets while his father lay dying.

        This is fact yet hes made the Secretary of State for Health.

        Im afraid sweat blood and tears is the only way we will ever see change and the best part is we all don’t need to kill,need to burn businesses or march the streets, theirs much more effective ways of bringing down governments and corporate interests by effecting the very thing they they live for most.


        September 2, 2016 at 2:19 pm

      • Why? Because they’re not organised is why. Unless masses of people band together under some banner and become a movement they remain individuals, easily blown about by the powers that be like straws in the wind: only when people join forces as a union or a political party, say, does their collective strength become great enough to challenge government and all of the other unelected powers that be.

        Mister Punch

        September 2, 2016 at 2:25 pm

    • Welcome to what happens and has in certain places, already happened in every single country running sweat shop type (its not confined to textiles) operations, farmed out by countries like ours all for the sake of free market capitalism that CLAIMS, their solving poverty.

      You see paying backhanders to already corrupt and gullible if not desperate country officials will only get those fools so far by some rich westerner who promised that by letting them work their people into ground, pay next to nothing that somehow it would transform their entire lives for the better.

      This is the fallout of todays capitalism yet while the masses don’t get it and the others bury their heads, this is the systematic collapse of the model used today. Westerners when not deceived by clever math just sit their thinking fuck them, im alright and change the channel all the while not realizing how its going to push up the cost of the shite they buy everyday.

      You see everything is tied together and as you know affects currency so 8894068 rupees today could quite easily be 88.9 tomorrow.

      I would expect to see more protests,violence even death to follow but of course you wont hear that likely on the BBC so make sure you keep watching alternate media, check, research both sides.

      When i and the likes of Gazza tell you capitalism has or is reaching an expiry date, WE WEREN’T JOKING,
      so people can choose to not listen, ignore the tremors if they like as your feel it like an earthquake soon enough in all your life times.


      September 2, 2016 at 1:21 pm

      • I would ask those here to try a thought experiment to see the future as it will play out. This all started back in the late 1960/early 1970s [after a US Supreme Court Judge sent a letter round calling for the masses to be kept in their place – by denying them the levers of freedom, i.e. earning a true living wage – thereafter a explosion of offshoring of business started building, and continues today.

        The Money earned these days by citizens is in my view stagnating not increasing – I have no figures to back this claim but believe this from what I see and hear. Consequently at the same time [consider the taxes raised by individuals as against business – it is clear citizens pay way more than the business] the wealth of the country is not increasing, this is made worse by the offshoring.

        That’s the background.

        Now at some point in the future the last great [in number] unwashed cheap labour population [this is sarcasm] will be the used up by the international offshoring markets, looking for value – low production costs, high value monetary return on ultimate sales.

        Where prey will they turn to for cheap labour? Everyone will be aspiring to higher wages, but the offshoring operates on cheap labour? Will we in UK accept pay cuts? Will Europe? Will China? etc etc.

        At that point, all bets are off. The reason? We are dealing with a unreasonable system. This system is built on one ideal and one ideal only. Profit by any means possible. Making money off other peoples back [even up to murder, Bhopal anyone?]. When it is unable to do so, what will happen?


        September 2, 2016 at 11:10 pm

      • Actually you can Gazza as while i wouldn’t choose the word stagnate to describe it dew to the nature of how money and debt works, your assertion is none the less quite correct.

        Anyway if we for the purpose of this discussion suspend the levying of money on debt and acknowledge the rich are getting richer how can anyone explain to me that workers are getting wealthier ?

        Bringing levying back in the answer is mostly everyone’s assets are ones formed from loans and debt burden as a consequence of having now rather than later. A house, a car,etc are not paid for in cash assets and are often in quite a few cases levied off the back of another loan/debt asset.

        Its all very complex and far to bigger subject to discuss here but generally life today exists on the promise of.


        September 3, 2016 at 8:39 am

  27. enigma

    September 2, 2016 at 1:43 pm

    • Mr McDonnell added that he would “make sure we take into account the experiments that are going on at the moment, developing the ideas that the Fabian society have put forward”, before campaigning on the issue.


      September 2, 2016 at 1:45 pm

  28. Youtube diminishing business opportunities for certain uploaders of regular and popular videos while attempting to censor free speech.

    Now im sure not many are aware of this but recently google has had a change of policy and has begun diminishing the earning potential of popular video uploaders who voice and expose corrupt politicians, individuals and corporate establishments, all for the sole interest of controlling the political and economical narrative.

    This underhanded approach is an attempt to force these very uploaders out of business knowing full well they would have to then ask viewers to consider paying a subscription that many of their viewers could ill afford just to continue to spread the word, to give you the choice to decide whose telling the truth.

    To make matters worse, politicians are now openly naming such uploaders, trying to shout them down as tin hat wearing nut jobs while at the same time mysteriously openly declaring them as a threat to society.

    Where have we all heard that before, perhaps i need to ask Corbyn to remind me.

    If a conspiracist is a fantasists to be laughed at, then how can they be a serious threat to anyone but themselves or are those saying it suggesting the near majority are one ?

    In 2011 a retired judge claimed the Hillsborough families of the dead should drop their “conspiracy theories” about what happened in the disaster. We all now know how that turned out.

    After the attacks on September 11, 2001, certain individuals were branded conspiracy nuts for suggesting Saudi Arabia was involved. 15 years later and only after recently released government documents came to light, this has been proved to be true.

    On the 10th of April 2002 Tony Blair told the House of Commons: “Saddam Hussein’s regime is developing weapons of mass destruction and later claimed Iraq has chemical and biological weapons. Two people from the intelligence community openly declared no intel gathered confirmed this to be the case that could be considered fact. They were thrown out of the service, persecuted and labelled conspiracists.

    Don’t be beguiled into coupling the likes of the Roswell little green man theory with other more earthly ones as those who seek to mock with the first are often the ones hiding the second.


    September 2, 2016 at 3:33 pm

    • No transparency in the big society.


      September 2, 2016 at 4:52 pm

      • “There is no such thing as society…” Margaret Thatcher (liar)

        “There is no such thing as the Big Society…” Hopalong Butchdance (truther)

        Hopalong Butchdance

        September 2, 2016 at 5:47 pm

      • I meant to say, the so called big society.


        September 2, 2016 at 6:21 pm

  29. Clegg: Osborne casually cut welfare for poorest to boost Tory popularity

    “Welfare for Osborne was just a bottomless pit of savings, and it didn’t really matter what the human consequences were, because focus groups had shown that the voters they wanted to appeal to were very anti-welfare, and therefore there was almost no limit to those anti-welfare prejudices,” he told the Guardian.



    September 2, 2016 at 5:12 pm

    • Clegg was 100% behind the Bedroom Tax in the beginning fool that he was and thought 250,000 over-occupiers would move into bigger properties when 250,000 under-occupiers were “encouraged” to “downsize” after being driven out of their homes by the Bedroom Tax somewhere else. Trouble is that the “somewhere else” didn’t exist and under-occupying tenants had to absorb the cut in Housing Benefit and lump it. I remember Clegg, standing in for Cameron as Deputy Prime Minister, defending the Bedroom Tax tooth and nail, When the Bedroom Tax was shown not to work he turned against it but it was too late then.

      Clegg was pretty much fully behind almost every welfare cut, cap, freeze and “reform” made at the behest of the Conservatives at beginning of the coalition.

      We shouldn’t forget this.

      Hopalong Butchdance

      September 2, 2016 at 5:45 pm

  30. ONS says,

    Number of children in workless households hits record low,.but the truth will come in just mo.

    Just 11% of UK children live in a home where no adult is working, down from 20% when records began in 1996



    September 2, 2016 at 6:18 pm

  31. British streets are a dumping ground for the mentally ill.

    Thatchers care in the community still alive and kicking.



    September 2, 2016 at 6:31 pm

    • Housing benefit: Cashing in on the homeless?

      6 November 2015

      Housing Benefit helps put a roofs over the heads of some of Britain’s poorest families.

      It costs £24bn annually and is received by nearly five million claimants at an average of £95 a week.

      The BBC has been investigating one agency in south London which has helped the homeless off the streets.

      In doing so it has earned thousands in housing benefit, for providing, often poor quality, bedsits.


      September 2, 2016 at 6:53 pm

      • Charming!


        September 2, 2016 at 7:29 pm

      • The homeless, where money can be made.


        September 2, 2016 at 8:34 pm

      • Think about it people, wheres the profit in a non profit operation ?

        Government makes more return revenue or so they think by pushing housing into the private capitalistic sector rather than see money relate equally to natural resources and cancel itself out.


        September 3, 2016 at 8:03 am

  32. Here’s another one Gazza.

    Government to conduct a public consultation on the issue of caste and the Equality Act 2010.

    A key aim of the consultation will be to obtain the views of the public on whether additional measures are needed to ensure victims of caste discrimination have appropriate legal protection and effective remedies under the 2010 Equality Act.



    September 2, 2016 at 9:33 pm

    • enigma

      having worked with Indians and Pakistani’s [Pakistani’s have less of a problem than indians but they too have their own internal issues around castes from what I understand] this is an issue. Can it be addressed? This is very subtle stuff, down to a person having a particular name [or say in india coming from a particular neighbourhood even, which might also apply here].

      but even then – is the current laws being enforced properly by court action? If there is ongoing problems [from the news stories clearly there is], advising people to change their attitude is clearly not working. Yet there is no naming and shaming. Nor funding to legally bring these people to book. So you might have particular laws on the statute books but if they are not enforced/used, its just a piece of worthless paper.

      Lets not even start on the need for a law about Bullying…


      September 2, 2016 at 10:54 pm

      • I would say those that discriminate are of a primitive mind BUT history tells us that this was a much younger invention created by slave owners seeking to subvert the various abolition’s of slavery and the subsequent collapse of their extremely low cost outlay, high profit business model.

        When you trace slavery through all its centuries it wasn’t one based on discrimination but rather one built on mans desire to conquer and commercialise based on ones insecurities to be seen as equal and unnecessary. Now although as i said the concept is young, the ideology to put indifference (so not discrimination as you know it) in citizens minds stretches far further and was committed so a so called ruling conquering nations leader could condone such invasions into others territories in order to sustain their nations existence in an unrealistic way as they attempted to proliferate their kind. Most people don’t have a stomach for war and the very fact conscription through the promise of death,incarceration and even slavery (a loss of status) existed throughout any such incidences in history, confirms this.

        The promise of utopia as they always claimed and still do that a nation can sit back while often a un-described product works to sustain their existence has always been a cheque no one could ever cash but none the less was always promised to quell their fellow nations natural conclusion of why should you be my king, do nothing while i feed and cloth you.

        This self importance gained through bullying and fear as remember most have no stomach for conflict was and is the catalyst for indifference which over time developed to to what you see today.

        So you see racism,discrimination,etc is one born from ones insecurities to be seen as just as human, just as non special and just as vulnerable as the rest of us and why still to this very date inequality exists.


        September 3, 2016 at 7:56 am

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