Ipswich Unemployed Action.

Campaigning for Unemployed Rights.

Jobpoints in Jobcentres Disappearance: Mystery Solved.

with 116 comments

DWP Dumps Jobpoints: Too Tight-Fisted to Upgrade.

Over the last few months people commenting here have kept mentioning how Jobpoints are being removed from Jobcentres.

The mystery is now solved.

Obi  Wan Kenobi (Guest Post) explains.

Jobpoint systems in Jobcentres being removed:

It’s not that they didn’t want to keep the Jobpoints there, it’s because the DWP are too tight to upgrade the Jobpoints system they were running on.

You see most of the Jobpoints were running on Windows 2000 or Windows XP throughout the entire UK, I have witnessed the start-up routines of these machines and it’s confirmed.

As most of us now know, Microsoft are no longer issuing updates for Windows XP – never mind Windows 2000, for a Jobpoint to work correctly it has to be internet enabled, (and for that the Windows Program has to have all the current security updates installed), because the server that displays the jobs from it’s screen isn’t based at any one Jobcentre, it’s probably based at the main server: – DWP at Caxton House in London or (going out on limb – Utah USA).

My Two Cents!

DWP if you’re serious about getting unemployed people into jobs, then restore the Jobpoints with an updated system (at least Windows Vista or better still, the more superior Windows 7) Both have full internet connectivity and the updates are still available for years to come.

I’d be very surprised if IDS or even his entire I.T. Dept. had the know how to do a full clean install of any new Windows Program (Including the full reformat and losing all data on drive C: to install Windows Vista or Windows 7) or even if there current shitty slow system is even capable of running Windows Vista/Windows 7/8/8.1.

There probably still running old outdated systems with a FSB 133Mhz, 1Ghz Memory and 750Mhz to 1Ghz Processor and expect this to do the job in full nowadays! Well if you’re just doing the basic’s like running the computer offline and using it as a word processor linked to a printer, then that’s fine, but as soon as you connect to the Internet then watch the speed of your old and loser system die, the reason being is that Windows XP uses I.E.6 to I.E.8 and that’s at the top end assuming your processor is fast enough and you have enough memory installed.

N.B. Windows 7/8/8.1 uses Internet Explorer 11 – There’s the clue IDS.

And here’s the problem with the DWP old men – they thought once they had Windows XP, that it would run forever and update forever (to be fair if you have spent around £100+on a Windows Program Disk, you would expect a lifetimes service) but Microsoft has different ideas, because they are in competition With the Mac computers (or as we oldies refer to it ‘Apple).

Personally I do believe that Microsoft are now taking the piss. They have marketed Windows 8 then within 1.5 years they announce Windows 8.1?

Quick note for DWP/IDS: please install the open source Ubuntu Linux Based system – Please I dare you!

This will make IDS’s failure complete.


Written by Andrew Coates

July 19, 2014 at 3:12 pm

116 Responses

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  1. […] Jobpoints in Jobcentres Disappearance: Mystery Solved.. […]

  2. Now Andrew, go over to Ubuntu; that would be too easy.

    I’ve been usung Ubuntu for nearly three years and I’ve had no problems. It comes with an office suite called LibreOffice and it’s as good as, and in my opinion, even more efficient than MS Office. On the continent, the French, German and Spanish governments have dropped Microsoft and have gone over to Linux. The disk can be bought for about £7.00 or you can download the ISO for free and install it from there, and it currently has five years of support.


    Alternatively, if you want an OS that looks like Windows, try Linux Mint.


    jj joop

    July 19, 2014 at 5:01 pm

    • I forgot to mention: check out The Linux Shop.


      jj joop

      July 19, 2014 at 5:04 pm

      • You can never say no to free open source. While I see little difference between Linux and Microsoft, the main interest that separates them is diverse compatible software.

        Don’t forget theirs free custom versions of windows as well and lets not forget the hacked versions floating about.


        July 21, 2014 at 5:48 am

  3. Sorry but the writer of this article does not seem to know his stuff about computers either. 1GHz memory? I think he means 1Gb. Also, whinging because Microsoft announced Windows 8.1? Windows 8.1 was not only an improvement over 8, but it was also a completely free upgrade from 8, downloadable for all Windows 8 users from Windows Store.

    Side note: Why in blue hell would they want to use IE11, when Chrome and Firefox are much better in every respect?

    Red Rocket

    July 19, 2014 at 5:57 pm

    • Because Chrome and Firefox are as insecure as IE and do not comply with W3C conventions. 🙂 I see your other points, tho 🙂

      Martin Owle

      July 19, 2014 at 10:25 pm

    • Quite right I should have said Gb, I was completely drunk when I wrote that.

      The main problem I found with the Linux Ubuntu system is that it locks your HDD so if you want to remove it from your HDD and install another operating system from CD/DVD drives, you can’t.

      Luckily where I used to work we had a HDD sector scrubber program which was used to totally clean HDD’s so I copied it and use it when ever I’m setting up a new system from scratch. This removes and overwrites anything on your HDD 3 times, only drawback is it takes over 2 hours to do this.

      Obi Wan Kenobi

      July 20, 2014 at 12:34 pm

    • The latest Firefox is seriously crap; it is slower than death! Worse than useless! Have now ‘upgraded’ to version 3.6.28. , think that’s as good as it gets as far as Firefox is concerned.


      July 20, 2014 at 2:06 pm

      • In fact, with ever new version Firefox appears to get slower and slower; it has now ground to a halt!

        Posted via Firefox 3.26.8


        July 20, 2014 at 2:08 pm

    • Even though Obi copped to it he may have meant transfer rate. As for windows updates, their always free which any windows user knows. 8.1 is just the new service pack.

      When considering browsers straight out of the box (no addons) from their source IE is the most secure, chrome is the fastest and firefox the be all you can be browser.
      If we forget speed then firefox is the most fun but you can get under the hood of any if you desire. I use waterfox as one of my browsers as their aren’t many good 64bit browsers yet.


      July 21, 2014 at 6:04 am

  4. Windows 8.1 was an update windows 8 which was to address major issues with windows 8 it wasn’t a new OS and you can upgrade to it from windows 8. It is more like the Service Packs that you got on xp (it had 3) vista (it had 1 or 2) and 7 (it had 1) then a new OS.

    I personally hate windows, and would rather use linux. I’d suggest debian for DWP though because it has longer support life and it uses proven stable technology rather than latest versions like ubuntu


    July 19, 2014 at 6:01 pm

    • All major linux distros give you the choice of latest, latest stable or bleeding-edge. Hence why slackware took so long to get to 13.37!

      Martin Owle

      July 19, 2014 at 10:27 pm

    • I was a ‘major update’ that got rid of the stupid default ‘tablet style’ menu and restored the “Start” button… for like turning the infernal thing off!

      Bill Gates

      July 20, 2014 at 11:23 am

      • Its nice to see im not the only one to hate windows 8.


        July 21, 2014 at 6:06 am

  5. Irrespective of all the bickering over computer operating systems, and GHz and Gb etc, the real question is, as usual, where are all the real jobs anyway?

    In any event, millions of benefit claimants are not computer literate – and there’s only a handful of computers in each Jobcentre!!!


    July 19, 2014 at 6:21 pm

    • The point is that the DWP doesn’t want to pay to upgrade, or have I missed something?

      Andrew Coates

      July 20, 2014 at 10:22 am

    • It only stands to reason to go from jobpoint to PC when you factor in the DWP game plan not to mention a jobpoint is a one trick pony.


      July 21, 2014 at 6:16 am

  6. 😦


    July 19, 2014 at 7:38 pm

  7. Tesco’s self-scan runs on Windows XP (spotted only yesterday) and Sainsbury’s self-scan runs on Windows 2000 (spotted last week).


    July 19, 2014 at 7:42 pm

    • No. It does not. It uses Windows at the front end only! The SYSTEM is a *nix based OS. Why is it so difficult for people to understand this?

      Martin Owle

      July 19, 2014 at 10:28 pm

    • TV’s also run on Linux 🙂


      July 20, 2014 at 9:09 am

    • As well as a host of other freeware/open-source software 🙂


      July 20, 2014 at 9:10 am

  8. PS Sent from a computer running Windows XP!


    July 19, 2014 at 7:42 pm

  9. i bet they save a few quid not refilling them with ink lol 🙂

    super ted

    July 19, 2014 at 9:38 pm

  10. this ”explanation” doesn’t hold up, as the systems are doing the same job now as they ever did any upgrades are simply not needed except for security, as to updates for xp, theres been little in years, as these machines are more intranet than internet they could run for ever and be just as safe, for any that do go via the evil internet than a simple anti-virus package will suffice.

    Lez Briddon

    July 19, 2014 at 9:49 pm

  11. my jcp is getting wifi installed so they said when i dunno tho,

    super ted

    July 19, 2014 at 9:58 pm

    • DWP would have to be out of their tiny mind to install wifi but hey it all works in my favour.


      July 21, 2014 at 6:23 am

  12. and web browsing does not call for a particularly powerful machine..

    Derek Robinson

    July 19, 2014 at 10:00 pm

    • … not unless you are trying to open Hotmail 😀

      Bill Gates

      July 20, 2014 at 11:25 am

    • True but it will test your patience while rendering the MSN home page search engine as one example. Graphics intensive activity is where grunt is needed so as the web converts to HTML5 it will be interesting to see how these lesser machines deal with it.

      Also you cant just think browsing as PCs are for multi tasking which again will slow the machine further. Then theirs where businesses constantly use auto updaters so your often hindered with this ontop of sluggish security and all the help aids programmed to load on bootup and run in the background.

      Lastly will people stop leaving their CVs on these PCs along with being logged into their email accounts as its happening so much that I swear I could make a living out of flogging it online in batches its that common.


      July 21, 2014 at 6:34 am

  13. It does how stupidly backward the DWP are with IT and it also explains how IT companies routinely rip them off for hundreds of millions of pounds.


    July 19, 2014 at 10:20 pm

  14. Not strictly true… only the Front-End (customer facing interface) runs on W2K or XP-Pro. The FUNDAMENTAL part is run on a unix/linux system 🙂

    Martin Owle

    July 19, 2014 at 10:23 pm

  15. To be fair, given that it is a basic database search system, they could run with front end with a Raspberry Pi.

    Red Rocket

    July 19, 2014 at 10:45 pm

  16. What’s a computer?


    July 19, 2014 at 11:16 pm

  17. Come to think of it, Raspberry pie, sounds nice, and in season


    July 19, 2014 at 11:17 pm

  18. I’m going to apply for a job with the DWP, I think I’m a cert


    July 19, 2014 at 11:18 pm

    • you got no chance id be trying to take a crap in that place for 20 years with no luck so far 😉

      super ted

      July 19, 2014 at 11:25 pm

  19. That means I’ll have no leaning post whilst waiting for my name to be called.

    Landless Peasant

    July 19, 2014 at 11:42 pm

    • Leaning Posts in Jobcentres Disappearance: Mystery Solved. lol 🙂


      July 20, 2014 at 9:03 am

  20. You’ve all made interesting and valid points. However, at the end of the day, common sense and strategic thinking have never been Duncan Smith’s strong points. Don’t expect any earth-shattering changes at the DWP any time too soon; except of course, more chaos.

    jj joop

    July 20, 2014 at 7:29 am

  21. Why would installing any Linux based system make IDS’s failure complete… It would be a redeeming factor! Not only isa *nix based system more secure than its older windows counterparts but the taxpayer might feel better knowing they aren’t having to pay for it! And just for the record, new ms and apple OS’s are basically Linux anyway, they just have a desktop environment your having to pay for… But I doubt either will admit to that!

    Steven Sealey

    July 20, 2014 at 7:49 am

    • Using a Linux based system would make IDS’s failure complete because the electorate would want to know why the DWP wasn’t using free software in the first place.

      jj joop

      July 20, 2014 at 10:47 am

  22. I haven’t given the DWP permission to access my Universal Jobmatch account so they require me on each signing day to supply them with printouts showing the details of all jobs I’ve applied for during the previous two weeks. I have set up an e-mail account to deal specifically with job applications and to receive confirmations that I have applied for jobs. I have now got into the habit of booking a session on one of their IADs about thirty or forty-five minutes before I’m due to sign on and printing out application confirmations using their printer. They don’t like it but they can’t refuse to let me do it and I can’t afford to keep on replacing the ink cartridges in my home printer.

    Each time I sign on I hand the Job Coach a wad of paper covering two weeks’ jobsearch. She looks through it then hands the documents back to me. She doesn’t even want to hold on to the evidence I’ve supplied. Total waste of time, energy, and paper.


    July 20, 2014 at 7:57 am

    • I shall be doing this too, since they told me the activity recording on Job-match is no longer enough and mandated me for printouts. I already keep a written record for the work programme, so this and printouts should be enough… if they want to check the UJM listings they can type the numbers out manually instead of copy/pasting, the pricks.


      July 20, 2014 at 12:01 pm

    • But what if their using a keylogger ?


      July 21, 2014 at 6:41 am

      • If you think they may be using a keylogger to try to capture your e-mail password then it is possible to change your password after you have used a Jobcentre IAD. If they ask you to print out pages from your Universal Jobmatch account you can change your UJM password after using their machine.


        July 21, 2014 at 7:31 am

      • Documents unlike movies come in mere KBs so I could download your email accounts entire contents easily in less than a minute (im talking seconds). So do you still think waiting to get home to change a password would change this ?

        What people fail to realise is that the keylogger isn’t adding anything new as it is already built into windows or any other OS. OSs have the ability to monitor a wide range of things and only lack your selected input.


        July 21, 2014 at 8:26 am

      • Are you suggesting that Jobcentres now have dedicated staff just waiting for me to end a session using one of their IADs so they can pounce and seize my login details using a built-in keylogger?

        If they want the entire contents of an e-mail account that I’m using for job applications and to receive confirmations of job applications and nothing else much good may it do them. They will already have had the confirmations that I’ve supplied as printouts.


        July 21, 2014 at 9:16 am

      • No because the software will do it all for them lock stock and barrel, absolutely no human required.

        As for printouts, they can be faked which will no doubt be their excuse for prying as do remember they only currently have access to UJM. Some people also have the weird habit of storing passwords to many things in drafts on email accounts to.

        The only reason to do this however is if they doubt your claim to have applied which would make it suspicion of fraud meaning as its a crime their not guilty of entering your email account and using its contents against the person.

        I know what your saying, “why little old insignificant me” but you see its not just you as you can do this to simultaneous systems all at once.


        July 21, 2014 at 10:18 am

      • This still means that there will have to be DWP staff who will be retrieving the login details from the automatic keylogger that you say exists and logging into my account before I’ve had the chance to change the password (and I don’t have to go home to do this, I could nip round to the library in the next street and use one of the computers there). Are there JCP staff who are doing this, do you think? If so, I wonder how much time and effort is involved? I wonder how much it costs?

        By the way, I never said that I was insignificant 🙂


        July 21, 2014 at 10:39 am

      • Clearly you do not understand so I will try again

        A third party program doesn’t do anything but prescribe a course of action to the OS. An OS already does everything except without prescribing a course of action, most of this will be switched off by default or awaiting conditions/parameters and the likes.

        A PC can read chapter and verse Einstein’s theory of relativity before your bums even got out of the seat quite literally. This book in terms of data is infinitely larger than your email accounts entire contents. THATS the kind of speed im talking about so nope ,even sprinting next door to a library WILL NOT BEAT IT period stroke period. No time or effort involved and as you would expect way way cheaper than using humans.

        As I said previously NO HUMANS ARE REQUIRED as computers are infinitely superior when it comes to this sort of work which they will do all on their lonesome pine without a human holding them back.

        I don’t know why this is so hard for you to grasp as everyday computers all over the place and planet do this completely unaided by humans just like this site is right this very second.

        Oh and for the record I NEVER said “it exists, I said I quote ” But what if their using a keylogger”.

        Oh one more last thing I chose to use insignificant so as to highlight how people when your talking to someone face to face always greatly emphasizes the term WHAT ME so its nothing personal I assure you. Its called data mining and its been around a long time.


        July 23, 2014 at 6:22 pm

      • Clearly I have not understood what you said, and you must forgive me for that. It is true that what I do not know about computers far outweighs what I do know. So perhaps you could clarify further in order that I may understand.

        Are you saying that there is a keylogger already built-in to Windows and every other OS? If so, then a couple of things occur to me.

        1) If there is a keylogger already built-in to Windows, wouldn’t those who know far more than Windows than I do be shouting it from the rooftops and warning us about it?
        2) If there is a keylogger already built-in to any of the Linux distros, then again wouldn’t the Open Source Community know about it and be up in arms?

        But perhaps this is not what you mean. Perhaps what you are saying is that the keylogger is a separate piece of software which the DWP has installed on each of their IADs and which sets parameters for the OS. I have noticed that quite a few companies on the net offering either free keyloggers, with limited capability, or paid-for keyloggers, with much fuller capability. If this is in fact what you mean, another few things occur to me.

        1) While I consider it is true that jobseekers should always be wary in their dealings with the DWP, do you think that the DWP is actually doing this?
        2) I am not a lawyer but my understanding is that in certain circumstances it is perfectly legal to use keyloggers to monitor internet usage but that it is not legal to use keyloggers to capture account passwords. It strikes me that that if the DWP is using keyloggers to grab jobseekers’ log-in details then it has a power sanctioned by Parliament to spy on individuals which even the UK’s Intelligence Services do not presently have.

        There is, perhaps, something that you have not quite understood yourself. I stated in my first post on this thread that I had set up an e-mail account to deal specifically with job applications and to receive confirmations of applications. Even if the DWP does have the powers you credit them with then all they will see when they log into that account are the confirmations that I have already printed off and presented to the Job Coach. I will be using this account for no other purpose.

        I look forward to your replies.


        July 23, 2014 at 7:59 pm

      • Solecism in above. One sentence should have read:

        ‘I have noticed quite a few companies on the net offering either free keyloggers, with limited capability, or paid-for keyloggers, with much fuller capability.’



        July 23, 2014 at 10:02 pm

      • When you have a PC as a owner you have two choices, use third party programs or programme/instruct the OS yourself.

        An OS is as good as it gets when it comes to monitoring and aggregating data and the only thing to limit it is ones imagination. I can monitor quite literally any function/capability on an OS be it one thing or everything. In the case of key logging you already witnessed a PC know one key depress from another otherwise they wouldn’t do a damn thing so you know their already fully aware of what key/s you just used so the only thing remaining is to make a log of it just like how say a search engine unless prompted not to by the user always remembers your search terms or a browser can remember passwords for instance.

        A PC is like a clever child that already has the training so only needs direction on what you want it to do and that’s where programs or programming come into it. This is what computers and programming are about.

        As for legality its never that simple as how often do you check your email accounts been entered into. Imagine someone putting say a job down as evidence that they never applied to. Now if I was to check that persons email account and lets say an email that was claimed to have been sent wasnt their the first thing I would ask that claimant without telling them what I did can you produce the email you sent to confirm this. This is just one way I can side step the law. The other approach is as im the data controller I use part 4 exemptions of the DPA namely SUSPICION OF A CRIME.

        The trick here is i own the system, I block you from administration actions so theirs no way you can know without hacking what and what im instructing the system to do.


        July 24, 2014 at 7:44 am

      • Thank you for your comment, and for your forbearance. I have to say, however, that I’m still puzzled by many of the things that you say.

        In the first paragraph of your reply above you state: ‘…you have two choices, use third party programs or programme/instruct the OS yourself.’ But what are these third-party programs or programs that you create yourself? Do they carry out the keylogging activity, or do they simply gather keylogging information that has already been recorded by the OS? It seems to me that what you are saying is that they do the latter, in which case they are not keyloggers because all they do is query the OS for keylogging information which it has already recorded. Is this what you are saying? If so, I have to come back to the question of whether this means that Windows and every other OS contains a built-in keylogger. My apologies in advance if I have completely misunderstood you but I would appreciate it if you could clarify this point for me.

        I have no doubts about your technical proficiency when it comes to using computers, and you are obviously much more proficient than I am. In the fourth paragraph of your reply you talk about what you could do as regards gaining a claimant’s e-mail login details and checking it to see whether or not they were telling the truth about applying for jobs. The question is, however, whether the DWP is doing this and whether they are using keylogging on their IADs in order to garner the e-mail passwords of benefit claimants and gain access to their accounts. Do you think that the DWP is doing this? What do you mean by sidestepping the law?

        You also talk about suspicion of a crime. But if the DWP is using keylogging on their IADs does this amount to a presumption of guilt? What I mean is this: if the DWP is doing this is it doing so because it suspects that all benefit claimants are engaged in benefit fraud just because they are claiming benefit and it wants to catch them in the act? But wouldn’t the DWP have to have more robust grounds for suspicion than that? As I say, I am not a lawyer but I wonder what view a Court would take if it were to be presented with such an argument.

        I appreciate all the time you have taken to deal with my queries so far, and again I look forward to your replies.


        July 24, 2014 at 5:08 pm

      • A third party program is any program besides the OS.

        The monitoring is done in real time irrespective of when you chose to use its findings. Keystrokes are constantly already monitored by the OS as are a great many things so it knows what its doing. Now for a human to view this data however one must direct the system to produce a report.

        To give you some scope here, not only can I tell what key strokes you made, I can even tell you the time it takes between each depression.

        Moving on to DWP your always guilty until proven innocent and you only have to acknowledge the fact of having to surrender jobsearch evidence to know this to be true.

        Suspicion is an as yet uncorroborated (lacking evidence) belief that something is the case. Your reasonably right that their has to be grounds but you will find often these are very flimsy and besides DWP avoid correct police practice as much as they can as if they did more often than not the case would be overturned leaving certain sanctions in tatters.

        Take for instance DWPs use of abuse as a warning/sanction tool. Technically only a court can reside over what is and is not abuse yet your never see the police regularly called unless an physical assault is, has or liable to happen. Most of what DWP term as abuse would I kid you not NEVER make COURT let alone see the person receive a charge providing the claimant wasn’t dumb enough to except a caution under section 5 of the public order act just so they can get out of the police station sooner rather than later.

        I on one accusation when they tried it on me i insisted they called the police, naturally they refused yet within days I received a DWP letter citing this and stating how it will not be tolerated and if repeated will call the police. The first thing I did was laugh right in their faces followed by going then, report me now, lets see how far you don’t get, then preceded to rip it up infront of them saying I don’t acknowledge this letter and will continue to act as I see fit but do feel free to call the police anytime you like. Naturally they hated this but as I already knew were POWERLESS to do anything about it as I had committed no such offence what with knowing abuse law better than them.

        Look, I cant say they are or are not keylogging and or entering peoples email accounts now or in the future but what I can say is under law (data protection act) no person can be compelled under force to part with their personal and or sensitive data meaning you have the reasonable and legal right as the data subject (datas owner) to remove without reason any or all such data or refrain from entering it and DWP cant do anything about it.
        So they might be able to make you sit at a computer but cannot force you to enter into any system irrespective of who owns it be it the device you are using or the site you are communicating with. So basically you can be made to search for work but as personal and or sensitive data is used in applications cannot force you to apply or if using a PC that’s not your property make you enter an account be it email, ujm or otherwise.


        July 25, 2014 at 8:25 am

      • Thank you for your comment. It is clear to me now that you are saying that Windows and every other OS monitors keystrokes; in other words, every OS contains a built-in keylogger. I don’t know whether or not this is true, but I have to admit that I have my doubts. My reasons for doubting what you say are, firstly, that the third-party software and programs that you can create yourself and which you have described sound to me very much like keyloggers, i.e. programs which actually carry out the keylogging activity; and, secondly, that if what you say is true then I would have thought that the entire Computing Community would be aware of it and would be letting the rest of us know (by rest of us I mean people like me who use computers every day but don’t really know very much about them). They do not, however, appear to have done so.

        But who knows, perhaps what you say is indeed true and they have all decided amongst themselves that they’re just not going to talk about it.

        I also do not know whether or not the DWP is using keylogging on their IADs. If the DWP is actually using keyloggers to obtain claimants’ login details to their e-mail accounts then it occurs to me that the fact that the Department is acting covertly does not mean that it is sidestepping the law and that if this practice were to be discovered the DWP would find itself in very hot water with the Courts. Another thing that strikes me is that if this is indeed occurring I would have thought that a Jobcentre worker who is a member of the PCS would have blown the whistle on this practice by now. This does not seem to have happened.

        But perhaps the DWP really is engaged in keylogging and PCS members are too afraid for their jobs to speak out.

        What it comes down to is that every claimant will have to decide for her/himself whether or not to use the Jobcentre IADs. For myself, I shall be continuing to use them because the Jobcentre demands evidence of jobseeking and I shall be doing this by supplying them with printouts. The alternative is to give them access to my UJM account but I will not be doing that. The DWP likes to say that Job Coaches and Assistant Job Coaches are there to provide continuing support; it appears, however, that in the looking-glass world of the DWP ‘continuing support’ can mean imposing damaging sanctions for what it sees as the least infringement of its increasingly arbitrary ‘rules’.

        Thank you again for your replies. They have been very enlightening.


        July 25, 2014 at 1:42 pm

      • Key Loggers These also work like morse code. They can tell ”by touch” who is using the keyboard. Bletchley park during the war could also tell who was using the morse key


        July 26, 2014 at 7:32 am

      • The real computing community wouldn’t be concerned with what I told you as like me they understand how electronics works, how energy is converted into what you know as a PC output.

        As you know or at least i hope you do, we cant actually visually see electricity, we only see its secondary effect like light or heat for instance. Electricity like magnetism is a present invisible force.

        Now when people like me work with it we use waveforms. Naturally working in waveforms being a shape we can then convert this to math. This process is exactly how a PC does it.

        So every time you press a key or keys you create a waveform or waveforms we call a pulse or pulses. This pulse or pulses is converted to a number which is attached to an outcome.

        Naturally a lot goes on in a system so when faults occur their has to be a way to monitor this, now we don’t have time to sit and wait so incorporated in the system a method of both automatically monitoring and recording the observation. This incorporation is a small piece of programming that allows us to monitor everything that goes on in a system or systems dependant on setup.

        Now the public only often hear about how this is used for nefarious means when its often used for very legit purposes like fault finding for instance.

        So me or the community isn’t going to use shock and awe to announce something that’s perfectly natural for PCs to do and have been doing since they were first created.

        Side stepping the law is just another name for bending it, something everyone even governments do so its absurd to think its doesn’t happen on a regular basis. Like I said if I own the PC and block you admin privileges as is always the practice for businesses, governments and anyone with the PC know how. HOW are you going to prove what im doing as I can tell you now email hosters will NOT allow you to legally attach programs to their remote software/servers AND DO REMEMBER all this can happen while your on it at the time so would be invisible to you.

        Theirs are ways of doing this away from the email servers thats legal but I can tell you are not currently practiced by PC users as they lack the knowledge that isn’t going to be found on your basic computer courses. You as the user only see the shop window reflection, the secondary effect, you don’t see whats going on behind it all.

        I see you still seem to imagine humans need to be involved well they don’t besides one person or three if we include the minister and HEAD CHIEF of the DWP. All advisors will ever know is what the screen infront of them instructs them to do period stroke period. Also remember part 4 of the data protection act I mentioned making it all perfectly legal anyway if guilt is found and if not all they have to do is not say a thing and end of, its really that simple.

        Obviously UJM accounts will replace advisors checking evidence when fully computerised but what sets it so very far apart is the system can do so very much more so YES it would easily aid in finding sanctionable offences.

        Your quite right to continue to present your evidence as you currently are but do remember when using a PC at DWP or a provider for jobsearch your mandated to that they can view all you have done while using it. This we let you delete your browsing history is a smoke screen as the most damaging cookies known as super cookies reside with the OS and aren’t removed when you select delete browsing or even if the browser is set to delete all on shut down. You need different software for that or the know how and I can tell you now theirs no way in hell their let you use it as data is the new currency.
        Even if you use a computer away from whom I mentioned I guarantee your still screw up and form a traceable link unless you act in a certain manner.

        Heres a link to help explain super cookies and a bit on apps on peoples mobiles.


        I like you don’t make jobs up so my evidence to is legit but this isn’t my concern, my privacy and the right to be deemed innocent until proven guilty and the right to a fair trial is, which is three things DWP along with the rest of government and businesses as a whole just wont abide by.

        Im lucky, I have decades of experience in engineering so anyone trying to play games with me will only ever see what I want them to and I call it hiding in the open but while I enjoy this billions don’t and it never ceases to amuse me in exactly how very little the public know and understand about it all.

        SO all things standing people can believe what they want but if they get burned I will not shed a tear for their ignorance to learn to move with technology, their propensity to rely on others, their desire to assume rather than know.


        July 26, 2014 at 10:41 am

      • Oh dear, now you’ve lost me completely. I understand, however, that this is due to a lack of understanding on my part. Thank you again for your contributions.

        Completely off-topic and by the way, this is interesting:



        July 26, 2014 at 2:37 pm

      • Oh dear, someone’s dummy fell out.

        Look JBS, its perfectly natural to resist change, but your just going to have except the world has.

        Just remember those that resist, get left behind.


        July 27, 2014 at 6:52 am

  23. Reblogged this on Britain Isn't Eating.


    July 20, 2014 at 9:14 am

  24. A new system is about to be rolled out. computers on the main floor for clients to come in and search for jobs. Halesowen JCP is due to have 16 eventhough i can only see enough space for 4 maybe 5. They were piloted in wolverhampton JCP which is also the BDC. The idea being that people come in to use one or preferably book one. apparently people will be trained and on hand to help out. it is planned that they will be able to upload cv’s etc so you will be able to bring in usb sticks and use them leaves alot open for abuse, keyloggers and the likes.

    I asked the question what will be available for the disabled will people be able to use screen magnification software. I didn’t get a satisfactory answer. they said some form of screen magnifier will be available.

    —JBS Reply —–
    The Jobcentre cannot specify how you produce your jobsearch you could write it out by hand if you wish to. I do applaud the idea of using their printers and using their resources so kudos to you for that


    July 20, 2014 at 10:09 am

    • I hope you’re right Kyron.

      But I see people all the time who are quite happy to use the Jobpoints and don’t have a clue about computers – or simply don’t want to be bothered with them.

      I have to do a print-out like JBS btw.

      Andrew Coates

      July 20, 2014 at 10:24 am

      • Replacing Jobpoints with computers might be the first step in forcing jobseekers to do a 3 month, 35 hour a week job search at the Jobcentre in a ‘supervised’ environment. I refer to your posting last month, Mr Coates.


        jj joop

        July 20, 2014 at 10:44 am

      • People have referred to a lack of space for computers.

        It’s hard to see them rustling up the space and the resources for all the people that would be sent to this modern version of oakum picking.

        Perhaps we’ll see yet more ‘pilots’ for it.

        Andrew Coates

        July 20, 2014 at 10:59 am

      • They make they space by getting rid of the jobpoints, phones, waiting areas and reception areas.

        refuted have a post on the ‘piloting’ of 35 hours jobsearch.

        Another Fine Mess

        July 20, 2014 at 2:09 pm

  25. With me and my visual impairment i make life difficult for them so they have given me an a4 form which I have blown up to A3 everytime I need some from the jobcentre. It makes life interesting the advisor is quite often gone from the desk for 10 minutes trying to get them enlarged.

    As for the Idea of those computewrs I have a feeling some more will be put. The idea I heard being floated is the people that dont give them access to their UJ they will sit them down infront of a computer and ask the client to access it and show them visually. My DEA made the point alot of people dont use UJ or if they do it’s just for the now mandatory cv posting.


    July 20, 2014 at 12:46 pm

    • Don’t be beguiled by advisors and their wants as they already have access to the data base so could contact any of these agencies or employers to find out if you did apply to them.

      By sitting down and typing into your account is the same as giving them access and theirs a reason the latter is in place and its called your right to privacy and is fully backed by the data protection act and cookie regs.

      No matter who owns a system and or connection CONSENT OF THE USER MUST BE GAINED PRIOR as cookies don’t just take down OS and browser details, they follow your activity to. This is how you know its all leading to profiling.

      If your FORCED to sign up to UJM then exert your data protection rights as the data subject by stating you will comply but as the data subject reserve the right to control the flow of your personal and or sensitive data as you see fit. Basically this allows you to legally withhold such data meaning a CV with no full name, no address, no phone number or email address, company names worked at and dates and lastly qualifications if numbers giving. Please remember you can enforce your right at anytime even after complying.
      Also remember you can open and shut as many UJM accounts as you like meaning as soon as you show them you can inform them that officially your closing this one down and opening a new one. Doing this everytime they ask will soon dampen their spirit.

      Oh before I forget, wording your CV, profile in the right way will yield zero search results and theirs no law on your encrypting your CV but do bare in mind the site doesn’t allow encrypted docs currently. What I do on all jobsites is replace the CV with a notice informing that info is withheld for data protection purposes what with the transference being unsecure. I also put my email address explaining they can contact me their and that once trust is formed between addresses will freely forward in a secure manner one CV (not the exact wording used). This basically removes the jobsite from the equation and thus reduces middle men acquiring your personal and or sensitive data.


      July 21, 2014 at 7:23 am

  26. From what I am gathering as well people coming of the workprogramme will be given a booklet type diary where people have to write down what they are doing on a given day. Some people that I know are on a month long daily signing at the jobcentre. It is getting more and mor elike they are trying to inconvenience you so much that you sign off


    July 20, 2014 at 12:49 pm

    • I reckon that’s exactly what’s happening – they’re trying to frustrate people off JSA. I’m not on daily signing – at least, not yet – but they keep changing my appointment time every two weeks.


      July 20, 2014 at 1:06 pm

    • Same here, they keep changing my signing time. I think the stupid idea is to make it more likely you’ll miss a signing time so they can sanction you.
      It doesn’t bother me, they’re probably just making more work for themselves. I’ll sign at 3am if I have to – I’ll just take a longer lunch break from my 12 hour night-shift (the money’s much better on nights).

      Another Fine Mess

      July 20, 2014 at 1:42 pm

      • 😀


        July 20, 2014 at 2:41 pm

  27. Ids = Independent dole stopper


    July 20, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    • Perhaps “Incompetent Dole Stopper” might be nearer…


      July 20, 2014 at 1:20 pm

      • Yer your right!


        July 20, 2014 at 1:23 pm

  28. Reblogged this on UNEMPLOYED IN TYNE & WEAR and commented:
    For a couple of months now, jobpoints in my local jobcentre have carried posters telling us that the jobpoints would be replaced in the Autumn and to ask a member of staff for more details.
    When i did, I was told they would be replaced by computer terminals.

    it’s also noticable that they’ve been rearranging the office furniture, presumably to fit all these new terminals in. They’ve also halved the number of claiment seats, bastards !


    July 20, 2014 at 1:25 pm

    • ours in halesowen had out of order signs placed on them. DEA stated that there hope is for them to be working in about 3 weeks time


      July 20, 2014 at 3:25 pm

  29. Supervised Jobsearch Pilot Scheme launched: 35 hours per week for 13 weeks.

    The Jobseeker’s Allowance (Supervised Jobsearch Pilot Scheme) Regulations.

    Made 17th July 2014.

    Read the regulations online or download original PDF file: via http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1913/contents/made

    Scheme for jobseekers registered at Jobcentres in: (a) East Anglia; (b) Black Country; (c) Mercia; (d) Surrey & Sussex; (e) West Yorkshire.


    Obi Wan Kenobi

    July 20, 2014 at 5:32 pm

    • i said they would get the providers to do it and not be in the jcp, what a fkn joke 13 weeks sat in a office so a provider can get more tax payers cash.

      done the same thing at a4e with 30ppl in a room full of computers 10 years ago n did not care if you looked for work just that you signed in and out so they got paid.

      super ted

      July 20, 2014 at 5:45 pm

    • Who will be running this scheme, anyway? Seetec and G4s, I’m guessing.

      jj joop

      July 21, 2014 at 6:42 am

      • You forgot SERCO

        Mr Middlesex

        July 21, 2014 at 8:32 am

    • Obi:

      This a seriously scary piece of legislation. It actually says you can be referred to this scheme if you are failing to secure job interviews. How many jobseekers are actually able to secure face-to-face interviews these days anyway?

      Example: I recently attended a week long Skills Conditionality course, mandatory for WP returners who remain unemployed. Anyway, there was a dozen of us. The tutor asked how many of us had an interview recently. Answer: no one. Only one person out of the whole group had had an interview this year. And that was for a temporary job, a fortnight I believe.

      I think this piece of legislation is going to be used to sanction jobseekers off the unemployment register.

      jj joop

      July 21, 2014 at 11:39 am

      • I’ve been in the same job (support worker) for over two years. All the while I have been applying for jobs and haven’t ‘secured one interview’. So God help jobseekers is all I can say.


        July 21, 2014 at 12:09 pm

      • In other words it’s ‘New Deal’ (a Labour programme) all over again, but this time without the extra £15 per week.

        Obi Wan Kenobi

        July 21, 2014 at 4:22 pm

  30. I would imagine all the work programme providers will jump on board as that’s twice as much use of their already existing system.

    I particularly likes the post by Obi wan on the regs as one not getting interviews hardly constitutes as not doing enough when the choice resides with the employer or agency.
    This leads me to believe that DWP doubt the material your sending as we have all had our CVs checked by both provider and DWP so we know its not that.

    A person of trust being infront of you hardly proves this has changed as its all hidden when sent so they must be using the data the PCs collect to know for sure.

    I strongly urge claimants to question these providers quite hard in respect to your personal and or sensitive data on the PCs inregards to who they intend to share it with. Even if they say they don’t insist you get confirmation of this in writing BEFORE agreeing to anything.


    July 21, 2014 at 8:12 am

  31. Reblogged this on Beastrabban’s Weblog and commented:
    Obi Wan Kenobi suggests that the reasons they’ve been removed is because the government didn’t realise that they’d have to keep on upgrading the operating system, and has been too tight-fisted to do so. In fact, this is a real problem with introducing computers anywhere in the state sector. Regardless of the initial savings, they constantly require further expenditure on maintenance and upgrades, and hence the further expense with computers in public libraries.


    July 21, 2014 at 8:18 am

  32. Even most Jobcentre personnel don’t know what is going to happen on the computer front – or when!

    WiFi, Ubuntu, Widows this, Windows that, Ghz, Gb, input-output modulator, Firefox, Waterfox – it’s all meaningless to the many computer illiterate Jobseekers.

    Where are all the jobs? That is (always) the question!

    By the way, I liked the comment above asking “What is a computer”?!!!


    July 21, 2014 at 8:19 am

  33. OT

    Just before the Commonwealth Games begin this Wednesday in Glasgow, a “joke” is circulating about ATOS, the official sponsor, and who were also the sponsors of the Para Olympic Games.

    Apparently, some Para Olympic competitors have been disqualified because they are not “para enough” after being assessed by ATOS.

    Here is an excellent video seriously challenging ATOS:



    July 21, 2014 at 8:30 am

    • Not So Funny. Some Athletes In The Para-Olympics DID Lose Benefit Because They Were Not Para-Enough! Check It Out On Google

      Mr Middlesex

      July 21, 2014 at 8:34 am

      • Hello, Mr Middlesex

        Yes, it’s not funny for the many victims of ATOS.

        I think that was the serious purpose of the “joke” – note my inverted commas in the original.


        July 21, 2014 at 8:44 am

      • Hello Mr Tobanem, Yes I agree it is not funny for the victims of ATOS. I have been waiting nearly a year for a PIP medical. I sent my forms and reports in last August. I wonder how many other victims never get the medical or get worse waiting for the medical

        Mr Middlesex

        July 21, 2014 at 10:06 am

    • Says ‘disgruntled employee’ but could easily be a ‘disgruntled CWP victim’, just seem a bit suspicious the timing (CWP just started) and the fact that it is a ‘re-cycling plant’ (a favourite of these MWA/CWP slave-drivers.

      Miss Marple

      July 21, 2014 at 1:48 pm

    • Just imagine, we could soon have ex-jobcentre ‘advisers on here, complaining about the number of fake job postings!

      Another Fine Mess

      July 21, 2014 at 10:42 am

    • The latest on our old friends SEETEC, in charge of Community Work Placements in Suffolk (and elsewhere),

      DWP’s Seetec investigation under MPs’ spotlight
      Posted on July 20, 2014 by thelovelywibblywobblyoldlady
      Reposted from Disability News Service

      The most senior civil servant in the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has been questioned by MPs about an investigation into alleged fraud by a company paid to find jobs for disabled people.

      Concerns raised about Seetec in a Disability News Service (DNS) investigation were put this week to Robert Devereux, the Department for Work and Pensions’ permanent secretary, by members of the Commons public accounts committee.

      DWP launched an “investigation” last autumn into fraud claims made to DNS by two whistleblowers, who claimed Seetec had been artificially inflating the number of jobs it said it was finding for disabled people through the specialist Work Choice jobs programme.


      Andrew Coates

      July 21, 2014 at 11:39 am

  34. You know makes me laugh is you never see an advisor issuing a jobseekers direction to sign up to other jobsites do you. All they ever do is cite UJM as though no other sites exist, that no other site is better.

    If they can question a persons use of UJM then surely they could criticise their other evidence right.


    July 21, 2014 at 10:42 am

    • gaia:

      I think they only cite UJM because that’s the only website where they cam legally contact an employer and check that you’ve applied for an advertised vacancy.

      jj joop

      July 21, 2014 at 10:47 am

      • Just because they own the site it doesn’t give them any legal rights to your personal and or sensitive data from a third party.

        For a potential employer to say yes you applied is legally deemed as processing under the law. You see when you send a CV or anything containing personal and or sensitive data it is that company who must issue you with a DPA policy which by law your consent must be given before any processing can begin. Theirs no inferred rights here plain and simple.

        This being the case means the employer has breached ICO regulation so even though it might be hard to put the mockers on DWP it will be like taking sweets from a baby to cite this employer. Naturally hes going to be none to pleased and will nodoubt think twice before advertising on UJM again, especially when ICO hand them a fine.

        The way to nip this in the bud is what I said before and that is for you the data subject (legal owner of data) to set controls prior to sending out CVs, cover letters or any material containing personal and or sensitive material. You quite literally put it on the bottom of your CV and cover letter just like even DWP and every other company does.


        July 23, 2014 at 6:40 pm

    • you never see an advisor issuing a jobseekers direction to sign up to other jobsites do you

      Yes, although most advisors themselves know absolutely nothing about the other sites, they just think UJ is the pinacle of jobsearch technology.

      Another Fine Mess

      July 21, 2014 at 11:11 am

      • What you mean it isn’t ?


        July 23, 2014 at 6:41 pm

      • My wpp says don’t bother with other sites or ujm it’s all on jobs24


        July 24, 2014 at 9:54 am

      • My wpp says don’t bother with other sites or ujm it’s all on jobs24

        So ask them why there’s only 50k jobs on jobs24, and 600k on UJM.
        Are they admitting that out of the 600k jobs on UJM that 550k of them are repeats and/or fakes.

        Another Fine Mess

        July 26, 2014 at 3:32 pm

      • Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:32:31 +0000 To: middlesex5000@outlook.com

        Philip Brown

        July 27, 2014 at 9:06 am

      • Should have read we must have the same pa


        July 27, 2014 at 9:28 am

  35. Senior Employability Advisor
    Glasgow £21900 per annum + other benefits

    Search Consultancy are delighted to present to the market a 6 month contract for a Senior Employability Advisor – a role which our client has described as perhaps one of the most challenging and rewarding careers a candidate will ever embark upon. As our client provides community support for those experiencing mental health problems, addictions, homelessness and other forms of social exclusion the successful candidate must be able to demonstrate empathy and belief in the potential of our clients customers and work creatively to respond to ever changing needs of customers.

    Key responsibilities in this role would be as follows:

    * Provide a personalised support service assisting customers to develop skills, motivation and confidence to enable them to overcome barriers and move into sustainable employment.
    * Provide support and guidance to employability advisers to ensure provision of high quality support to clients
    * Coordinate and provide support for customers whilst they are in employment in partnership with our client’s national employment team via regular telephone contact, face to face visits, monitoring and the provision of employer support

    Key knowledge and experience our client is looking for is as follows:

    * Proven ability to manage and support a client caseload and achieve targets for employment progression is essential
    * Working knowledge of the DWP regulatory framework for Welfare to Work providers essential
    * Sound knowledge of best practice in the provision of supported employment essential
    * Good understanding of local labour market.
    * Good understanding of effective employer engagement strategies
    * Detailed knowledge and understanding of issues faced by people with a mental health problem or a disability in the job market.
    * Understanding of employment law and employer’s responsibilities
    * Experience in the field of Welfare to Work, essential.
    * Experience of human resources, recruitment or other employment based services, essential.
    * Experience of working across sectors, essential.
    * Experience of working within a high performance, high pressure and target driven environment essential.
    * Experience working with people with a mental health problem or other disability in an employment setting.
    * Experience of monitoring, evaluating and reviewing personal plans, desirable
    * A proven track record in placing customers into employment.
    * A proven track record of supporting customers to achieve sustained unsupported employment.

    As this role is of a senior level the position will involve travel across Renfrewshire and West Dumbartonshire and a full driving licence and access to own transport is essential.

    If you feel you could add value to our client’s organisation in this role and have the drive and passion to aid others in finding work please apply directly today!

    Job Reference: Req/293581

    Closing Date: 24 July 2014

    Apply here 😀

    Universal Jobmatch - Jobmatcing Alerts Service

    July 21, 2014 at 11:41 am

    • You forgot to include in that job advert – ‘MUST BE PREPAIRED TO LEAVE YOUR CONCIENCE AT THE DOOR’.

      Obi Wan Kenobi

      July 21, 2014 at 4:32 pm

  36. empathy
    achieve targets for employment
    Good understanding of local labour market
    Detailed knowledge and understanding

    Well that excludes all JC advisers!

    Another Fine Mess

    July 21, 2014 at 12:45 pm

    • Change it to:

      achieve targets for sanctions, sanctions, sanctions
      No understanding of anything beyond the end of your nose
      Detailed knowledge of how to push papers around and stare blankly at computer screens

      and you could include all the JC Advisers again.


      July 21, 2014 at 2:47 pm

  37. my jcp has now put out of order on all the phones on the 1st floor and left 2 working for the hole town to use.

    since i won my sanction for not attending my mwa i have now been told ill sign as normal so no adviser any more, said i will be sent up now and then to see one if i want pmsl.

    they got nothing else to try to sanction me now and i won 5 in a row 😉

    super ted

    July 21, 2014 at 4:21 pm

  38. Anybody else been asked by their Wpp or Jcp why they have NOT got a Facebook or Twitter Account?.


    July 24, 2014 at 8:37 am

    • No, but I’ve seen your question asked before.
      They’re just clutching at straws, the idiots should know that unemployment is caused by more unemployed people than there are vacancies, and not by a lack of FB or twitter accounts.
      On the other hand it would help by more quickly outing the slavefare exploiters.

      Another Fine Mess

      July 24, 2014 at 7:01 pm

    • i got a good answer for that one lol no because army of angles had me banned for posting the truth on there fb page n they dont like it haha

      super ted

      July 24, 2014 at 7:05 pm

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