Ipswich Unemployed Action.

Campaigning for Unemployed Rights.

Unemployed to Have to Commute up to 90 Mins to Sign on.

with 128 comments

 

Another day, another loony-bins right-wing idea about the unemployed.

Unemployed people should be made to commute for up to 90 minutes – just to sign on, according to David Cameron’s favourite think tank.

The Policy Exchange, which has close links with the Conservative Party, said the controversial proposal, aimed at people without children, would “boost their confidence of commuting”.

The idea comes in a report,  Cultures of Dependency: Fact, fiction, solutions.

The bright young chap who wrote it  has never done a proper job in his life,

Matthew Tinsley joined Policy Exchange as a Research Fellow in the Economic and Social Policy Unit in September 2011. He has researched on a range of economic issues, focussing on UK labour market and social policy issues. Prior to joining Policy Exchange Matthew gained a Master’s degree in  Economics from the University of Bristol with a focus on the labour market, policy analysis and econometrics.

We note with concern that Mr MA in loony-bins says this, “The author would also like to thank Jobcentre Plus and, in particular, Stuart Bennett and offices in Hounslow, Leicester and Stockport. Without their help the surveying of benefit claimants that underpins much of our work would not have been possible. “

His basic idea is that “Individual cities rather than central government should be in charge of helping local people into work.”

This is the recommendation that made the headlines,

Commute to Sign: Currently, jobseekers tend to be assigned to JCP offices near where they live. In areas of relatively few job opportunities, this could reinforce beliefs around the lack of work. To give some single childless claimants a broader knowledge of potential opportunities in a wider area, break down perceived barriers around commuting and boost confidence with navigating public transport, some claimants should be required to sign-on in JCP offices which are located in areas where more opportunities exist (e.g. town centres). This should be within the accepted travel to work time (legislation stipulates that jobseekers should be prepared to travel for up to 90 minutes for work) and JCP would be required to pay associated travel costs until the individual found work (for instance through the flexible support fund).

There is also this,

Family signing: Given the influence that families exert on individuals, both in terms of attitudes and opinions and directly in terms of barriers to work like childcare and caring arrangements, when barriers to work are seen to be driven by family circumstances JCP should pilot family signing. Where appropriate,105 this would involve all members of a family claiming benefits coming in to sign-on and engage with employment support together.
Discussions could involve guidance and support for how childcare is managed across the family and sign-posting to existing family-based support.

And this,

Work Groups: Once Universal Credit is rolled out, it is likely that some employed groups will be required to attend JCP to sign-on.106 We believe that these individuals could provide a positive influence on jobseekers by
extending their networks and giving them access to potential opportunities with employers. They could also break down any norms around a lack of employment opportunities or worries about work. For this reason, JCP
should pilot group employment support activities which bring together jobseekers and those in-work laimants required to sign-on.

Tinsley, Candidate Phd in Advanced Nutterism says (wisely),

Each of these areas of flexibility would likely only apply to a relatively small number of benefit claimants

I say wisely, because this is highly unlikely to happen: it would cost money and involve a lot of futile effort.

There is one major concern however.

This, “The government should go further to devolve control over employment support and skills funding, as well as sharing the rewards of any benefit reduction that they cause. This can create innovation, join up the different branches of support more effectively and reward the most successful programmes.”

Does this mean people will get unequal treatment across the country?

Is it a step towards “decentralising” benefits – that it, cutting money for those in some areas?

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128 Responses

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  1. This is, literally, the stupidest set of recommendations i have ever seen.

    making people commute for 90 minutes puts them at risk of being late and thus sanctioned.

    it also completely screws up the cohort at any given JC – having people in Cardiff sign people in Bristol and vice versa. This makes not one iota of sense.

    ghost whistler

    September 12, 2013 at 11:30 am

    • Puts them at risk of going to the toilet on public transport, in their clothes!

      What if there are no buses? Or buses recently cut, stopped, broken down, discontinued, seasonal, or about to be any of the above?
      Say you live miles from the nearest bus which only comes once a week (a lot of Wales is like that) and only in summer. Or say you are disabled, possibly with a disability stopping you getting on a train or bus. Or you are told to use a train but you can’t get over the bridge above your station.

      something survived...

      October 3, 2013 at 9:34 pm

  2. From the report quoted above: “Once Universal Credit is rolled out…”

    Universal Credit…£34m written-off…and counting?

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/11/iain-duncan-smith-cost-it

    £161m written-off…and counting?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10303154/Universal-Credit-Another-200-million-lost.html

    Poor. Old. Tired. Horse

    September 12, 2013 at 12:05 pm

    • I don’t buy into these lies. These rising costs are nothing more than back-handers to Cameron’s mates. Its an awful lot of money to keep someone sweet. The problem is, its not his money…

      Universal Jobmatch

      September 15, 2013 at 2:15 pm

      • Exactly. Economics? Even Maynard Keynes was quoted as saying economists exist to make astrologers look good. And further it they quote 0.1 per cent it is the economists idea of a sense of humour

        Windmill1

        September 15, 2013 at 2:33 pm

      • CURRENTLY OFF TOPIC.
        HAVE YOU OR ANY OF THE OTHER POSTERS ON THIS SITE HEARD OF OR BEEN MADE AWARE OF SOMETHING CALLED…THE NATIONAL STAFF DISSMISAL REGISTER…. IT CAN HAVE YOUR NAME ON IT FOR THE MOST TRIVIAL REASONS. IF ANYBODY DOES KNOW OF HOW TO FIND OUT IF ANY OF US ARE ON IT LET US KNOW PLEASE. MY WPP HAS HEARD AND SAID IT’S A GREY AREA OF THE LAW OPEN TO ABUSE ETC. HE DOES NOT KNOW HOW YOU CAN FIND OUT THOUGH

        philip

        October 4, 2013 at 5:57 am

  3. Just what kind of planet are these bloody idiots living on!

    jj joop

    September 12, 2013 at 2:28 pm

  4. And incidentally, I live out in the sticks. My Jobcentre is about five miles away in the next town and it costs about four quid for a dayrider. The next nearest JCP is about twenty-five miles away. Christ knows how much it would cost to get there. This is just another attempt to grind us down even further.

    jj joop

    September 12, 2013 at 2:37 pm

  5. This is “Looney Tunes” again. Like the unemployed are less than human “untermensh”. Should we be shot are gassed? That is the level of debate. When I read the comments I could not believe it.

    Windmill1

    September 12, 2013 at 4:39 pm

  6. ps I live in a Tory heartland so at least the local hunt would give us minutes start….

    Windmill1

    September 12, 2013 at 5:03 pm

  7. I have tried on a number of occasions to contact you with regard to fraud and other matters going on here in Bracknell. The latest crazy thing to happen is the wholesale sanctioning of individuals who dare to raise questions over Job Centre Plus policy; banning people from entering Bracknell Job Centre, meaning they have to sign on in Reading. David Penson 1 Detling House, Sycamore Rise. Bracknell RG12 9GE 07949 353631 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 10:39:05 +0000 To: davidpenson2@hotmail.com

    David Penson

    September 12, 2013 at 6:53 pm

    • Now im afraid what with studying currently I am unable to assist, this said though I can offer some off the cuff advice.

      Theirs this thing called burden of proof david so I strongly suspect each and every sanction wont quote questioning policy as what constitutes as, well unless their insane so maybe they have.

      I would suspect as usual they are hiding behind the jobseekers act and that and this is only a guess but these sanctions will read as not available for work, not actively seeking work, not using UJ sufficiently, abuse.

      You see DWP are trading off the fact that most wont appeal beyond the first 2 or 3 stages which they have control over. Now if carried on though does move you to where they don’t have control and what constitutes comes into play.

      So if they are mad enough to cite questioning DWP policy then their screwed hence why im sure its not what their going to state.

      Your plans of attack should be to first consult your sanctioning by finding out exactly how you supposedly broke said rules (ie, not supplying enough evidence for example) as, as cute as quoting not actively seeking work is, a logical reason like in any civil or criminal matters must be applied and so it is this that you need first in each and every case you represent.

      If as I suspect they don’t put , well he questioned us, how dare he, then in each and every case the evidence (reasoning and logic) must be examined to see how air tight it actually is.

      If you in each case can prove to the contrary on the reasoning given then push it all the way in the complaint procedure as it will obviously be overturned in the latter two stages.

      (If you don’t have a legal head please consult a solicitor before acting out anything)

      Additionally if as you say its wholesale then that in itself will present something significant too so if say around 50% have had this then start approaching the newspapers and or freelance journalists and try to get them to run the story.

      Well I hope this helps.

      gaia

      September 13, 2013 at 11:16 am

  8. David I do not know the answer to that one. Has anyone got any ideas? I am sure there is a lot of information to be gathered by your colleagues from this site. Please respond.

    W

    September 12, 2013 at 7:17 pm

  9. David Penson :
    I have tried on a number of occasions to contact you with regard to fraud and other matters going on here in Bracknell. The latest crazy thing to happen is the wholesale sanctioning of individuals who dare to raise questions over Job Centre Plus policy; banning people from entering Bracknell Job Centre, meaning they have to sign on in Reading. David Penson 1 Detling House, Sycamore Rise. Bracknell RG12 9GE 07949 353631 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 10:39:05 +0000 To: davidpenson2@hotmail.com

    Beat it, you BNP bigot!

    jj joop

    September 12, 2013 at 7:27 pm

  10. the 90 minute commute is what they are trumpeting is on the jobseekers agreement also,they try to pass this off as a bus journey time half way there then what is supposed to be from the front door.

    Dont ever give access to universal jobmatch,theres a section in there about feedback,this is also on the jobseekers agreement also saying “act on it”. acting on something because you have a disability or a lack of experience is impossible.but people with a disability wont get the truth and others too in cases if they respond at all.jobcentre plus will try to trip people up with dirty tricks through this site by those giving access at every opportunity.they can exploit anything if they gain entry.

    job centre staff lie,withhold the truth,plead ignorant and play down issues of importance,contradicting healthcare professionals when not being in a position to do so.arrogance and incompetence is rife.

    ken

    September 12, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    • Ken

      It as I have already demonstrated makes absolutely no difference as they don’t actually need your permission to look at it as they are as defined in the UJ small print you should have ready the DATA CONTROLLER. So as long as the advisors are nominated they can look without prior permission however I would imagine so as to not make it obvious they will if they haven’t already set up a team to be nominated independent to local offices.

      Its im afraid perfectly legal under DPA which you can see if you read it along with the section relating to exemptions.

      You see your screwed the moment you sign up to UJ

      TAKEN FROM UJ TOOLKIT (you might want to read to the next ones to as I mentioned in another post datasets as regards how the system populates your suggested jobs section).

      25. UJ brings a shift in the focus from helping claimants search for jobs, to
      looking instead at the claimant’s activity on UJ. This also means you will
      suggest ways for them to improve the matches they receive from the
      information they have recorded about their skills and in their public CV.

      Helping hand called me a fantasist, a conspiracy nut, tell me after you have looked at DPA, the sites small print and toolkit, as its very far from being far fetched and in truth is very common in the work place when monitoring staff activity and has been for quite some time.

      gaia

      September 13, 2013 at 7:45 am

  11. Dear taxpayers

    Lets take an example for costings shall we. If we take a 90 min travel distance so lets say midlands to south. Roughly Derby is around (certain trains and certain times) 90 mins from London so if we take a train off peak at say 11:01, it will arrive in London according to timetable 12:33 (1hr 32 min travel time). The cheapest ticket is a super off peak return and is priced at £64:00. Now an unemployed person signs on currently every 2 weeks so if unemployed for a year and doing this travel to sign will cost an extra £1’664.

    Now interestingly if we stay with the midlands (derby) but this time say go to Northampton which is 65.81 miles away so around half the mileage it is to London the fair costs £32:70 but and heres the interesting thing, the travel times range from 1hr 40 min to 2hr 10min. Now if we go from London to Northampton its costs £59:80 and the journey time is around 1hr 10min to 1hr 30min (67.33 miles).

    (PLEASE NOTE I HAVE ONLY DONE POINT A TO POINT B, TO BE SPECIFIC YOU WOULD HAVE TO FACTOR EACH CLAIMANT SEPARATELY AS WE ALL WALK AT DIFFERENT PACES, THE TIME TO GET TO A BUS STOP AND OR TRAIN STATION FROM A STARTING DESTINATION IS DIFFERENT IN EACH CASE, THEIRS TRAFFIC MOVEMENT,WEATHER AND A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER FACTORS TO CONSIDER HENCE WHY THE LAW OF AVERAGES CANT BE APPLIED, THEIRS JUST TO MANY VARIABLES,ESPECIALLY UNLNOWN ONES).

    So to say traveling on public transport is straight forward bar the buying of a ticket is a gross misrepresentation of the truth.

    I travel as a course of my given trade up and down the UK (where ever theirs work) so know trains and buses extremely well. Im also like this Matthew Tinsley HE in math except we don’t play at it like him otherwise you wouldn’t have trains, planes and buses to travel on let alone everything else you have, had or will do.

    I would imagine if I looked at his work that it would be full of THE LAW OF AVERAGES which if true is the wrong applied math in this instance as you can see above the rule cannot be applied, now can it?

    This Matthew Tinsley obviously needs to go back to university as this is in my expert opinion and yes I will stand up in court, the BIGGEST PIECE OF IDOITIC HYPOTHESES I have seen in some time and if it was ever put in my circle would never pass the peer review on so many levels.

    Train times and costing was taken from the following links

    http://www.directrail.com/derby_london_train.html

    http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/train-times/

    gaia

    September 13, 2013 at 6:42 am

    • Sorry dear taxpayers I need to add an appendix here

      I quoted “ESPECIALLY UNLNOWN ONES”

      Well its what we call a variable variable on account of it changes by the second in an unregularly and unpredictable way so cant be measured by way of an average so as to produce a resultant.

      gaia

      September 13, 2013 at 6:55 am

    • There’s always been a maximum travel time of 60mins to attend the WP interviews.

      1hr 30 mins each way to sign on at the knob centre is a complete joke. Guaranteed that those who have to travel will deliberately be booked for 9am appointments in the hope that they will arrive late or not be able to report.

      I’ve noticed that they’ve increased the commute time we are expected to search for jobs to 90 mins as well, all well and good but 3 hours a day travelling to some jobs on top of working day that is already 12 hours long? And nearly always minimum wage rubbish too!

      Chris

      September 13, 2013 at 11:39 am

      • Even the other way chris when talking taking a job 90 min away. For a start most employers wont hire non local candidates unless its a big temp contract, speciality work or the applicant is going to relocate to said location.

        Next is your valid point, the national min (£6:19 a hour). For a start where is the claimant going to get travel expenses before being paid (cannot be offered as a form of loan/debt unless you except or should I say give your voluntary consent, you cannot be sanctioned because you refuse to get into debt).

        At £6:19 an hour for a 7 hour day (35 hours a week after breaks are excluded) you gross before tax and national insurance £43:33 a day so this figure will be lower after deductions. so if we say take the above posts derby to Northampton we know the travel costs are £32:70 a day meaning after a days graft you only have £10:63 a day to show for it which inturn means £53:15 a week after deductions.

        Well as you can imagine you cant pay rent, cant pay council tax, food and lots of other necessary stuff needed to actually live.

        So already you have DWPs government pledge to ransom in MAKING WORK PAY as you would, would you not still have to go cap in hand despite being over 35 hours according to their ruling.

        So and you do so at your own risk, can on these grounds alone despite applying for it, actually under DWP ruling can say no with good reason.

        gaia

        September 13, 2013 at 12:04 pm

      • They say its to get us used to commuting to work..

        Maybe if they want us to travel to the job centre they could pay us a proper living to get us used to earning a wage? Public transport fares are extortionate nowadays – I used to pay £16 per day for a return to work (Train) when i covered provided holiday cover in Nottingham a few years ago, the company used to refund the travel.

        The same train ticket is now over £30. Thats without the bus to make the connection at both ends. Multiply that by a 5 day week and like you say there’s nothing left, especially as not many companies will take responsibility for employees travel.

        Does the travelling distance vary depending on mode of transport? What I mean by that is that you can cover a lot more miles by car than by public transport.

        Chris

        September 13, 2013 at 5:28 pm

      • The DWP/Jobcentre DO NOT take travel costs into consideration for the purposes of a “better off in work” calculation. Prospective travel costs are NO EXCUSE for refusing to apply for a specific job vacancy, and YES you will be SANCTIONED for doing so!!

        JCP+

        September 13, 2013 at 6:01 pm

      • Not sure of how true it is; I’ve also heard that if a prospective job starts or finishes at hours when public transport isn’t available, you still can’t refuse a job on those grounds either!

        Amazon are good in that they lay on a double decker bus but charge the workers for the privilege of going to work on it!

        Chris

        September 14, 2013 at 9:43 am

      • Lets get this out the way so everyone can save their fingers a little when typing.

        DWP would sanction you for breathing if they could so it goes without saying their try but try doesn’t mean it will stick. They can only ignore correct procedure for the first 3 stages of the complaints process, after that its law versus law and they cant do nothing to stop it so unless they have an air tight case, their screwed.

        If you look cover to cover at their laws and the laws they must comply with like tax, H&S, etc you will see actually how little power they actually have.

        Peoples biggest mistake when sanctioned is relying purely on DWP operation guides and their relevant laws when they should concentrate on those only that give them lawful power like claiming section 3 of the SSA when claiming exemption which is given power under the DPA so it is the DPA you look at as that’s the lawful part in connection to section 3 (ie, what makes it legally so or not dependant on individual case/s).

        DWP are hoping that you value your £71:00 a week as if your like me who doesn’t need it and only signs on for tax purposes your soon see how deflated advisors look when you say things like “go on then sanction me if you think your correct and inline with legal rulings”, “please I insist if you think I am being fraudulent call the police”,” please can you show me some legal clarification, I don’t understand your point, where does it say that” and on and on.

        Don’t get me wrong, they still come after you like the children they are but you see this is where they put their foot in it everytime in my case and those I have represented in the past so I can only imagine this is quite common throughout all their offices.

        DWP are also trading off the fact you don’t know law (not operation guides) as again if you haven’t done it before and know what your doing just wait to see the expression on their faces when you slap it down right in front of them and say can you show me where this is so and I will be happy to comply” which by the way puts them in the position of knowing the law before issuing said sanction so makes them legally culpable (this applies even if they refuse to look at it) if they proceed with what you know is legally unlawful and therefore legally unenforceable.

        So what im saying is when I say they cant sanction you im not saying they wont try, im saying on the long run if handled correctly wont stick as its unlawful (no point doing it if it isn’t such) and so gets overturned.

        YOU’VE GOT TO BRAKE EGGS TO MAKE AN OMLETTE so it is up to the individual to decide which is the best course of action and so if they wish to challenge knowing its unlawful (claimant must be able to prove legal argument) then must be willing to for go this £71 a week for the duration of the complaint which can take months I kid you not but remember theirs still hardship and food banks they cant sanction if your not like me and have a network of support.

        gaia

        September 14, 2013 at 10:45 am

      • Now for JCP+ claims

        What JCP+ is referring to if they don’t know tax laws is the term native which means static place of work (ie same building everyday). Now this law has limits as their are instances where even under PAYE it is still a claimable expense.

        Now this aside the DWP themselves set the permissible limit a person needs to live on each week which is what you receive every week (£71). Also Government (Tory) pledged live on TV on more than one occasion TO THE ENTIRE COUNTRY that they will make work pay (Smith, Hogan, etc are government to the DWP department).

        So I SIMPLY would LOVE to see DWP explain why you should be legally allowed to earn less than the £71 WHILE WORKING that they give to claimants that are not working currently, I truly would and encourage them to do so as I never say no to a GOOD LAUGH.

        Again im not saying they wont try, im saying if they cite this as reason for sanction on paper (always get it in writing, always make sure when doing so that they put the actual reason behind said breach in law) it wont stick on the long run if you know your stuff.

        JUST LEAVE THE ROPE AND LET THEM HANG THEMSELVES (DWP) AS THEIR REALLY QUITE GOOD AT PUTTING THEIR FOOT IN IT, NOT TO MENTION CRAP AT LYING.

        gaia

        September 14, 2013 at 11:27 am

      • Very telling, gaia, you have the luxury of saying: “go on sanction me”… because well there is nothing to sanction. You are obviously in the fortunate position of having to sign-on for “tax purposes” or whatever; I would also wager that you have a secure roof over your head (own outright?) and plenty of cash/equities/gold/property/assets in the bank? It is ridiculous for someone in your position to be telling jobseekers that: “They [DWP/Jobcentre] can only ignore correct procedure for the first 3 stages of the complaints process”, yes after a sanction has been imposed and the unfortunate jobseeker has been left destitute. The reason jobseekers are so compliant and jump through every hoop that the jobccentre places in their path is that they CANNOT AFFORD to live of air until a Judical Review or whatever vindicates them. For some unknown reason, you are either failing to or deliberately not taking this simple point on board. I must say that you do sound a bit Freewo/man of the Land type, Gaia, and I would venture to say that you are comfortably off; enjoy playing your games with the Jobcentre if you have the luxury of being able to afford it, others can’t.

        PS Apologies for the long, rambling most, sure Andy won’t mind 🙂

        Ipswich Jobseeker

        September 15, 2013 at 12:36 pm

      • * long rambling Post, kind of obvious, but don’t want my whole argument to fall on a typo, eh? 🙂

        Ipswich Jobseeker

        September 15, 2013 at 12:41 pm

      • Don’t I just pick up the player haters.

        Ipswich jobseeker, would you rather I lie, pretend im all broken down drawing benefit after benefit, are you saying I don’t have a right to claim, do you even have to fill in tax returns year after year after year, do you even know how to fill one in or are you another person so poor of math and logic that they need an accountant for the whole process.

        I don’t mind admitting im fortunate but why not as I earnt it and the respect that comes from it with my own two bare hands.
        I didn’t waste my time watching the likes of eastenders and every other piece of crap on TV as while the country does im busy learning and or crafting my already acquired skills in science, math and engineering.

        I don’t own a home lock stock and barrel, mortgage or rent as I don’t need to as when I am working im often hundreds of miles away from home so live out of hotels and B&Bs for the duration of the contract. When im not working I stay with friends and associates for free on account of helping them free of charge for decades so they WONT TAKE MONEY FROM ME NO MATTER WHAT I TRY. I also get people giving me cooked food or invites to dinner at homes and restaurants, free clothes, various equipment, the list is endless and why, because I do and have for decades now helped serve my community In a way most cant and that is to supply professional technical assistance including law when needed.

        Im not money motivated, yes when im working on contracts im extremely well paid but that’s not why I do what I do, I do it because I love it and live it and hope to die doing it. I learnt a long time ago that things don’t have to be all about money, that what you sow you reap (i always say to people if you just concentrate on the job the rewards will follow) and that’s exactly how for me its gone.

        So im sorry if I offend you or your sensibilities but as regards my posts I have said on more than one occasion that the individual needs to weigh up the options and im sorry if you don’t like it but im not going to repeat it post after post as their comes a point when a reader has to put the work in which obviously you didn’t this time and anyway people are quite capable of deciding their own next course of action so don’t need you holding their hand sir unless of course your suggesting their not capable.

        Take it or leave it but ITS JUST A POST, JUST LIQUID ON A SCREEN PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

        gaia

        September 18, 2013 at 7:35 am

  12. How arragant to suggest we need to travel for this time to get us used to commuting to jobs? In my last job I left home at 6.30 am to get to work at 8.00am. I now have to travel 40minutes each way to attend my jobcentre appointments
    on at a cost of £4.50 so I think I know quite enough about travelling thankyou very much. It’s a complete waste of time and money and an attempt to grind the unemployed down even further than they allready have been

    Carol Joyce

    September 13, 2013 at 3:33 pm

  13. any reason why this shouldnt be applied to mps then?

    growls

    September 13, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    • Cos ‘we’re all in it together’ as Cameron says. Except that some are in it more than others

      Chris

      September 13, 2013 at 5:46 pm

      • Excellent response Chris except that George Orwell is really a Blair. I think that is more than scary,

        Windmill1

        September 13, 2013 at 6:11 pm

  14. gaia :
    Ken
    It as I have already demonstrated makes absolutely no difference as they don’t actually need your permission to look at it as they are as defined in the UJ small print you should
    have ready the DATA CONTROLLER. So as long as the advisors are nominated they can look without prior permission however I would imagine so as to not make it obvious they will if they haven’t already set up a team to be nominated independent to local offices.
    Its im afraid perfectly legal under DPA which you can see if you read it along with the section relating to exemptions.
    You see your screwed the moment you sign up to UJ
    TAKEN FROM UJ TOOLKIT (you might want to read to the next ones to as I mentioned in another post datasets as regards how the system populates your suggested jobs section).
    25. UJ brings a shift in the focus from helping claimants search for jobs, to
    looking instead at the claimant’s activity on UJ. This also means you will
    suggest ways for them to improve the matches they receive from the
    information they have recorded about their skills and in their public CV.
    Helping hand called me a fantasist, a conspiracy nut, tell me after you have looked at DPA, the sites small print and toolkit, as its very far from being far fetched and in truth is very common in the work place when monitoring staff activity and has been for quite some time.

    they didnt have access when i was there ,a white screen.i did notice what appeared to be a drop down window with the word “retail” and a 0.so i suspect they can see how many jobs are on there.

    ultimately since its their system then yes its not impossible for them to view as is any internet traffic they are so obsessed with.however the button exists for them not to.use it.

    ken

    September 13, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    • I was told that under Universal Credit UJM would be linked and advisors will have access.

      I initially had problems with my advisor logging into UJM and the JC (unsuitable jobs saved by advisor appearing), although since raising a complaint this has now stopped. Advisor logged on in front of me without asking for a password so im assuming that they have some sort of back door administrator access.

      Seems that the advisors are allowed to bend the rules on Data Protection as long as they don’t get caught out and they use claimants lack of knowledge to their advantage.

      Any probs with bullying its worth sending a letter to Caxton House and Independent Case examiner (registered mail) mentioning advisors by name etc. The examiner won’t look at it until the job centre have given a final response, although they forward it back to DWP. The advisors hostile attitude soon changes and they become friendly. They’re still as clueless but just a lot easier to cope with.

      My advisor even quoted that it was my choice whether I allowed access to UJM and virtually quoted from my complaint letter.

      Chris

      September 14, 2013 at 8:29 am

      • No their not bending rules chris, if you read the DPA as I said in another post you will see they merely only have to be nominated by the data controller who is the fullstop to all matters relating to the processing of any personal and sensitive data in a particular given situation.

        On the UJ site in the small print even though its not actually small DWP state themselves as said DATA CONTROLLER.

        Like I said its perfectly legal under law so they are bending nothing im afraid to say. its all above board once you summit your personal and sensitive data.

        gaia

        September 14, 2013 at 11:38 am

      • Got ya. Also says that they will not be held responsible for any losses as a result of UJM either.

        First time I’ve actually sat down and read through the legal rubbish.

        Chris

        September 14, 2013 at 4:36 pm

      • Careful their chris as that’s only half the facts.

        That not liable part only refers to the site, not DWP. By being the data controller DWP have under law excepted to take full responsibility for all personal and sensitive data only.

        You see or have seen that the DPA only covers the UK,

        Wheres the servers Chris, do you know, do any of us, I don’t.

        If its out of the scope of the said law, the law itself becomes mute. Have a chat with ICO, don’t take my word for it.

        This is just one of the many issues I have with UJ and UC or any computer databases.

        Now im trying to find it but if any one else can post a link please do an FOI from DWP that states they if they feel its in the best interests of the public will withhold any and all information regarding any theft of said data or put simply “if we get hacked, we’re probably not going to tell you unless we get Snowden”.

        Personal and sensitive data equals money, that’s why people steal it every second and now as you may have seen on TV it was in the spot light citing governments, police forces, businesses, stars, etc, etc as the purchasers of it. Wait until the press catch on that it doesn’t stop their as it gets sold for favour again and again and again.

        What im saying chris is a lot of people are profiting from your identity but your not, your having to sign on.

        I believe theirs enough evidence to justify changing the law so a person can copyright their personal identity.

        Think about it, all these people would have to pay you every time they use it or lose it. We wouldn’t have to sign on, no one would.

        If people knew just how many databases they were on and how frequent this was processed they would believe me when I say that we would all live above the poverty line.

        So the next time say you might think “who would be interested in boring old me” just remember this

        Its not who you are, its what you represent.

        gaia

        September 15, 2013 at 5:49 am

  15. Chris, “knob centre”, I think you got that one right. I don’t know about your plans but I plan to use my unicycle (as one does). Can’t afford it otherwise

    Windmill1

    September 14, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    • Hi Windmill.

      I’m currently studying 14 and a half hours per week and job searching at the same time. I know we’re supposed to be willing to abandon a course if they push a job onto us but I’m 6 months away from starting uni so will sign off if needs be.

      Chris

      September 14, 2013 at 5:26 pm

      • Back at studying myself a week ago so I share the pain especially if like me you just got into debt with it or forked out a few thousand already.

        If it helps do remember you can negotiate the attendance of your course to any employer while applying and or at the interview stage, I cant say they can support it but theirs no harm in being upfront and asking I think as I find their quite impressed by the thought of an employee that’s willing to work any shift while studying a degree or even BTEC Diploma at the same time.

        Now I know their gold dust these days but you only need 12hrs national min and you can legally loose all hearing after that at DWP as you have just cancelled out the £71 meaning

        SANCTION WHAT LOW EARNER,SANCTION WHAT?

        gaia

        September 15, 2013 at 6:35 am

      • £1:72, Oh, however will I live without it.

        Look I know its old fashioned and they always say apply or look online but get yourself out in the high street but instead of looking for a job for now concentrate on building relations.

        Do it when you shop say, pretend you don’t know where something is and ask a member of staff, use this as a pretext to strike up say a joke, just keep it social and light and innocent. The next time you go in start saying hello, you don’t have to say anything else straight away but the sooner you start the better as your building a link, a link that will later grow in trust, floor staff get passage to managers, you catch me.

        I cant guarantee you a job ok but I have found on occasion it has led to the very thing even if temporary, its all evidence even if you don’t get work and will certainly make this coming 35hr rule less boring.

        gaia

        September 15, 2013 at 7:03 am

      • If Ian Drunken Smith spent just some of the money the government had pissed up the wall with the work programme and Universal Credit on actually training and helping people, a lot more would be able to either go self employed or find a path back into into work.

        I speak for myself but i would say the majority of unemployed people want to work, its the gap in their cv or the need for a specific skill that forces us further from the workplace. Unless you have a HGV licence or want to become an Avon rep there’s not much else around here apart from zero hour contracts and wine rep jobs.

        The only other suggestion from the job centre is look at doing an apprenticeship, which at the age of 35 who is going to employ me? and if they did, how do you keep yourself for 3 years on £2.65 an hour??

        Chris

        September 15, 2013 at 7:35 am

      • Im a lot older Chris myself and have to witnessed ageism up close and personal despite DWP claiming it doesn’t exist but I don’t let it stop me as it obviously hasn’t stopped you in your career direction.

        I know people let alone DWP don’t understand like in your case you get tutored for 14 hrs a week, that you may require as most do 7 to 14 hours study time, if at degree or even BTEC that time is needed for assignments that start the moment you first attend (unknown quantity of time), if degree and job specific that an internship or the likes is needed and that could be 20 to 30 hrs unpaid.

        Then theirs the debt of paying for it which is thousands so any level headed student is going to want to work just to get a jump on the gross yearly interest let alone think about eating.

        I know your life might be as in the case of a lot of students a 60 to 70 hr week so I share the amazement that anyone would suggest students are lazy, especially when they only do a 37 hr week themselves.

        The government need to learn that you cant have it both ways, they either want people to upskill as their below par as they and businesses say and recognise the effort involved or just except the UK citizen as how they say just functional.

        gaia

        September 15, 2013 at 8:15 am

  16. Ian Duncan Smith MP – A Call for said MP to be Dismissed from his current position of Godship over all benefits claimants!

    Obi Wan Kenobi (Jedi Master)

    September 14, 2013 at 5:58 pm

  17. the end of work programme regime with this “tough and uncompromising” has gathered storm.comments on this page below are typical of whats being encountered,worse still the disabled are being exposed to the same levels of abuse. mine went very badly with the obnoxious advisers attitude both unhelpful and having no real purpose.the problem is it doesn’t work and the reality is its back to square one.

    http://www.theopinionsite.org/work-programme-leavers-face-job-centre-threats-and-bullying/

    it appears also they are issuing jobseekers directions to people who refuse to give access,so far i haven’t had one to comply.

    https://aftertheworkprogramme.wordpress.com/2013/06/24/after-the-work-programme/

    there was similar experiences during the first stages of new deal where the “quite talking to” advised most people walk off now.

    ken

    September 14, 2013 at 7:52 pm

  18. I quite agree. He lives ten miles up the road from me. Apart from the big house his wife’s family OWN the village. How feudal can you get?

    Windmill1

    September 14, 2013 at 7:59 pm

  19. Chris :
    If Ian Drunken Smith spent just some of the money the government had pissed up the wall with the work programme and Universal Credit on actually training and helping people, a lot more would be able to either go self employed or find a path back into into work.
    I speak for myself but i would say the majority of unemployed people want to work, its the gap in their cv or the need for a specific skill that forces us further from the workplace. Unless you have a HGV licence or want to become an Avon rep there’s not much else around here apart from zero hour contracts and wine rep jobs.
    The only other suggestion from the job centre is look at doing an apprenticeship, which at the age of 35 who is going to employ me? and if they did, how do you keep yourself for 3 years on £2.65 an hour??

    Ian Drunken Smith, priceless!

    jj joop

    September 15, 2013 at 8:20 am

    • It is jj joop, your right.

      I looked at the work in my direct area this week and apart from train to be a plumber and self employed valeter every single other job required a specific qualification or required you to supply your own transport dew to location and or early start.

      How do you transfer skill your way passed that, how do you pull a car out of your own pocket.

      This is how I know they know they cant make work pay, how they know they cant get you into work so have instead elected to sanction the crap out of everyone hopefully before the working public notice that they have failed again on yet another policy pledge

      If your sanctioned for not being available for work or not actively seeking work then they can claim under the rules AS WHAT CONSTITUES AS EMPLOYED OR UNEMPLOYED and it makes no difference your still signing on every week or 2 that that claimant is to be listed and counted as EMPLOYED.

      The game plan is obvious don’t you think, that all this recent behaviour isn’t to do with how so called lazy and conditioned we have become but more a crunching figures exercise for the upcoming elections.

      gaia

      September 15, 2013 at 10:08 am

      • The problem as you say is that unless you live in a major city like London you are limited to where you can travel by public transport with regards to shift work.

        Todays UJM (emailed) jobs based on my search include travel for 1hr 20 mins by train and 6am starts. Out of a dozen poorly matched jobs there is one that is within cycling distance from home! The rest are miles away

        The first train leaves town at 6:01am so wouldnt get to work til around 8 as the journey involves waiting for a bus at the other end. Would refusing a job on the grounds that you don’t own a helicopter or Tardis still lead to a sanction?

        If you took such a job you would never pass probation cos you’d always be late for work and I assume the sanction for dismissal woul still apply?

        Later in the morning the travel time would drop as the bus and train service becomes more regular.

        Chris

        September 15, 2013 at 2:50 pm

      • So far I’ve managed to avoid being sanctioned. I find it’d easier just to agree with the buggers and tell them what they want to hear. That doesn’t mean you have to do as they say/suggest. I’ve found that the people who get sanctioned are those who answer back or argue. At the end of the day, the advisers have got the whip hand. So I find it better to just to keep my head down.

        jj joop

        September 15, 2013 at 2:52 pm

      • In response to you and Gaia, as President Roosevelt put it all those years ago during the depression in the US, “speak softly, but carry a big stick”

        Windmill1

        September 15, 2013 at 3:25 pm

      • I guess you’re right. It’s easier to apply a sanction than to reverse it – even if JC are in the wrong. I got done for a month for not attending an interview (never got any letter) in August. They’ve only repaid my money this Friday gone.

        Chris

        September 15, 2013 at 3:20 pm

  20. i have one all of my sanctions on the wp for not going and i won all 3 of them and i dont even go to the place been 1 time for 20 mins in 2 years is enough for me.;)

    super ted

    September 15, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    • Before I begin I must say windmill, your humour is real sharp and fast lately, literally post to post, love it sir.

      When we boil down sanctions both jj joop and super ted have a point, both are equal responses to the issue but here’s the thing who’s really best off.

      Like super ted for me if its not legally enforceable its not going to happen as ironic as it sounds I’m just to busy looking for work, studying and looking to set up a voluntary post related to my skill sector as I need all, as 37 hrs. work alone simply isn’t enough for me, I wish it was that simple.

      Take UJ, I’ve lost count how many claimants are complaining about it, how much of their time is wasted getting nowhere as it freezes, refuses to print, corrupts, the list is endless, yet I have no such problems and why because I don’t use a UJ account as their really is no need to, I find tons of work to apply to on UJ and if it doesn’t display contact details I use the alternative methods available. I don’t have to worry about suggested jobs given to me by a computer that doesn’t know one end of a job from the other. I’m quite happy for my advisor to do it manually as then I can dissect it their and then as to why I cant apply or dependant on advisor at least make them acknowledge I’m applying for a vacancy I wont get for good reason.

      At the end of the day if DWP want me to apply for jobs I simply wont get for one reason or another I’m quite happy to as its their loss and not mine as it takes mere seconds to apply for a job, not minutes or hours but and I feel I must say this, I never ever put it down as evidence as I cant trust them to remember who gave it to me and why It was silly to apply for full stop and under current rules doesn’t even constitute as evidence if you never had the requisites required before applying so I have to wonder why their getting so many claimants to apply for work their never going to get.

      What jj joop and all the other UJ account holders don’t know is that DWP haven’t started enforcing it yet, haven’t even begun to scrutinise your accounts and efforts but they will if it doesn’t fit their model and again the UJ toolkit gives this away after point 25 in it where they try to tell you what words to put in.

      Claimants actually believe DWP need their permission to access irrespective of whether or not currently advisors have been nominated by the data controller.

      What they need to realise is DWP like everyone else needs to negotiate whether they like it or not the processing of an individuals personal and or sensitive data at the stage before submitting it so by signing up online they circumnavigate the issue as does other sites and like I said in another post, if the servers aren’t in the UK then theirs absolutely no UK law to apply to.

      If claimants want to get into bed with the devil then they should have chosen the likes of monster, jobsite, etc to upload a CV and profile to as DWP have zero right to snoop their as do remember soon every claimants evidence must prove 35hrs of jobsearch and you wont be able to claim stuff like sitting and waiting or walking around to find a PC within it.

      Their I’m afraid going to play musical chairs with the claimants as probability dictates that the time you cant use a computer somewhere that their will always be at least one claimant their using them so DWP will simply say “well this claimant used them, they got their on time, couldn’t you have left earlier and or queued”?

      So like super ted I prefer to die standing up rather than the so called (for now that is) easy life of jj joops approach which when you think about it is wrong as even though I have to deal with petty advisors weekly its only once a week and for 30 min at most (couldn’t care if its 1hr) and after that don’t suffer any of the troubles other claimants do besides having sanction hung over me but like I said I sign on for tax purposes so don’t have to have the money to claim that as during any sanction it cant be taken away (tax office doesnt care about sanctions) and my case in point is you still have to sign on right or the sanction is suspended until the next time you do.

      I’m not saying we don’t all want the quite life as jj joop states just that first the claimant must way up the option and look very carefully at what this quite life is going to cost them as its NEVER FREE.

      gaia

      September 16, 2013 at 6:25 am

  21. Chris :
    The problem as you say is that unless you live in a major city like London you are limited to where you can travel by public transport with regards to shift work.
    Todays UJM (emailed) jobs based on my search include travel for 1hr 20 mins by train and 6am starts. Out of a dozen poorly matched jobs there is one that is within cycling distance from home! The rest are miles away
    The first train leaves town at 6:01am so wouldnt get to work til around 8 as the journey involves waiting for a bus at the other end. Would refusing a job on the grounds that you don’t own a helicopter or Tardis still lead to a sanction?
    If you took such a job you would never pass probation cos you’d always be late for work and I assume the sanction for dismissal woul still apply?
    Later in the morning the travel time would drop as the bus and train service becomes more regular.

    DWP base this travel stuff on public transport and or a reasonable walking distance well first off they cant get around when public transport starts if we use your above example. As for walking to this 1hr 20 min your talking probably some 60 to 70 mile range at a guess which is unarguably unreasonable. 6MPH (not accurate, only for example purposes as its actually less and is very variant with good reason) walking pace means it takes over 11hrs (70 miles) to walk to work meaning a 22hr round trip so how exactly do we fit this 37 hr job with that and still equal 24hrs, you cant, case closed.

    http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art20257.asp

    gaia

    September 16, 2013 at 6:42 am

  22. Look I haven’t as I have to look the UK head to toe on account of my skill sector and can claim back fully my travel cost (contract/self employed) but their must be somewhere a standard for what is seen as reasonable when considering walking to and from work.

    In the meantime you can use this calculation to stress a very valid scientific point

    24hr day – what the body needs to rest at each night (8 hrs) = remaining daytime (16 hours)

    Remaining day time (16 hours) – work time (7) = total remaining day time (9 hours)

    (SO AT THIS POINT YOU HAVE ONLY 9 HOURS TO TRAVEL ANYWAY, ANY DISTANCE)

    Now the average human walking pace is 3.5 MPH so in 9 hours you would only travel 31.5 miles in any given day full stop at that speed

    So already you have created to inescapable facts

    (THEIRS ONLY 9 HOURS IN ANYDAY TO TRAVEL WHEN WORKING A 7 HOUR A DAY AND A HUMAN AT AVERAGE WALKING PACE CAN ONLY TRAVERSE 31.5 MILES IN THAT TIME)

    So if you walk both ways because of public transport and or location it means you can only walk each way 15.75 miles fullstop so could only ever look for work that distance away but only in this scenario of zero public transport.

    If say you couldn’t get to work on public transport but could get it home you would see the following

    The 9 hour rule (math) above still applies so if we take this 70 mile job as an example we know after subtracting the hour say train journey or bus back home that we now have only 8 hours to walk one way meaning now you could only physically traverse a distance of no more than 28 miles away. So its impossible in the time remaining to walk 70 miles, end of.

    9 HOUR MATHS FACT – FASTEST TRAVEL METHOD (ie,train bus,etc) = REMAINING WALKING TIME

    So if it takes 2 hours to get home on public transport then its now 7 hours remaining meaning now the human body can only get to work at walking pace if the job is no more than 24.5 miles away.

    DWP may not have to acknowledge the cost of going to work if PAYE but they cant ignore physics and maths or put simply, “you cant get blood out of a stone can you because stones don’t use blood”.

    gaia

    September 16, 2013 at 8:32 am

    • AND REMEMBER WHAT THEY SAY

      YOU MUST LOOK FOR WORK 90 MIN AWAY WHICH TRANSLATED INTO PURE WALKING WOULD MEAN WOULD IT NOT IF THE CASE ONLY BE 5.25 MILES AWAY.

      I eat DWP arguments for breakfast, and challenge them again to knock this one out of the park, please do.

      gaia

      September 16, 2013 at 8:52 am

  23. well i am now off the wp had the letter today so that’s the hole 2 years and only went 1 time had 3 sanctions and won them all and they have been wiped from the dwp system now so its like it was never there but i kept all the paper work to prove it tho.

    letter just says i got to see an adviser when i sign on again and thats about it just like it was b4 the wp when i was on new deal so same shit same shovel round and round i go again.

    so thats 5 billion in the bin and back to square 1 like it was b4 the wp was ever there told the person about my time on the wp when i signed on and its jaw hit the desk n shook its head in shame so showed the the letter i got from sainsburrys about there government slave scam n it was like poring salt on a slug haha.

    i also see on the news you now get 10 years for benefit fraud so i will be putting in a complaint about the blatant waste of money that was spent on my provider and all b4 them for the last 15 years on offer for tax payers money that was pissed up the wall over the years

    wonder what my adviser will say about that as i cant wait now 😉

    super ted

    September 16, 2013 at 10:21 am

    • I actually got a written letter reply to a job application today!

      No job, but still….

      And the swallows are already leaving…..

      Andrew Coates

      September 16, 2013 at 3:52 pm

  24. Good on yeh super ted, that’s the way to cook them.

    I should imagine if you’ve been unemployed since new deal (98) that you must have an impressive victory tally on sanctions or did you mean flexible new deal (FND), labours attempt?

    Either way you have me beat as to date they’ve only ever managed to sanction me once and they couldn’t get it to stick longer than a few weeks (this was when I signed on around 2008), and to think people say people like us don’t know the law, that we cant apply logic and win.

    Well im sure you don’t did telling but your going to enjoy your post WP interviews (was called trailblazer during trail) as they try and hound the crap out of you every week trying to find a reason to bring about a sanction and or jobseekers direction.

    It seems although I can only state this at my local office and the surrounding areas that their trying to find grounds to sanction claimants for

    1: not available for work
    2: not actively seeking work
    3: abuse and or threatening behaviour.

    They will also have a spin at, hold on while I laugh, getting you to sign up to UJ again for the hundredth time and again and again. They up until last week tried week after week trying to incite I am not using UJ sufficiently. Of course they failed but this is the dirty but pathetic game they play.

    They will literally pick through everything, even what you say next after they pose a question, seriously your going to love it as it was for me and still is relentless although they have now stopped repeating themselves now I have thrown in some complaints and now have thanks to them even more to add to it.

    Everyone has their own game plan and im sure your no different but currently I am putting them between either having to admit incompetence or deceit/fraud when it gets to my local MP and solicitor as their playing their same old lame trick of admitting nothing and even incite their not legally obliged to produce burden of proof (what constituted as abuse) which is really funny as again I gave them ampule opportunity to clarify this but as usual many weeks on they feel quoting abuse is enough, even after I reminded them that they tried that trick last time and it was over turned in a matter of weeks. So in goes another FOI but this time its going to land on the districts office but they don’t know I know they send it back to the original office meaning stage 2 gone now stage 3,4,5.

    Its like taking candy from a kid isn’t it when dealing with DWP, I swear if it gets any easier I might start feeling sorry for them, may even shed a tear or two.

    So good on yeh super ted, your a man of action and whats not to respect about that, your a star sir, a star.

    gaia

    September 16, 2013 at 4:00 pm

  25. yea i have been on new deal fnd and the wp over the years also been on the work force as well and i still have nothing to put on a cv that an employer will considerer as training to date.

    must have been to all the providers going over the years and 1 thing is the same none of them do anything but rake in the cash from the tax payers and its my job to find work not there’s so they can sit in a office and drink tea and eat cakes all day for 20k a year n push some paper work about.

    only had 1 sanction over the years i can think off but i lost the plot that time and was banned from the jcp i went to then so had to change the office i went to cos i cant damage the jcp staff.

    i always fill in my job search and apply for jobs i cant even get or get to anyway as i have no cv or cover letter and a massive gap on my work history, well none that is so now i cant even get a job as a cleaner now thanks to the dwp but i still try tho which must piss them off tbh.

    ill prob get the ujm shit and get told to register to it and ill just say i will not allow the cookies from that site on my home pc and will reg if they provide me an iad to use it on, all job points have been turned off and no iad will be provided any time soon so there fucked on that 1 as the only other place i could use it on was the work programme and i have finished that now so there stuffed on that 1 as well.

    and id never give them access to it anyway as the server is not even in this country and not covered under the dpa and ico not that i got a cv to upload to it anyway but will prob be told to make 1 up like b4 but its fraud to lie on a cv so there stuffed on that 1 as well.

    so as it stands now i am incomparable with the system they have brought in as i have no cv or anything to put on it and a 15 year gap on jsa and no iads to use ujm on anyway 🙂

    if they gave me the money the providers got over the years i could sign off buy a fat house and car and retire but no that has to go to 3rd party company’s to make them millions instead of helping me with anything.

    so they can send me to prison, prob get a course there that’s better than anything i have done over the years lol or just be done with it and shoot me point blank range at the desk.

    i did find some good it courses at my local collage that i could do but not allowed as its full time at 30hrs but its now fine to work for free as a slave for million pound company’s for free gets me??

    so looks like ill be doing this merry go round till im 65 at this rate or start braking bad and cook up some meth 🙂

    im also going to start recording them as well now cos it s just taking the piss with the utter bollocks they come up and out with if ur stupid they just go for you any way they can get a sanction doubt since the last 2-3 years its pathetic they tried and failed to ground me down over the years im like a car wheel ground down to the axle all that happens is sparks fly off now and sit there with a smile 😉

    super ted

    September 16, 2013 at 5:15 pm

    • super ted: I heartly concur with everything you’ve said. Your story and your experience mirrors my own. Although I haven’t been ejected from the Jobcentre. Well, at least, not yet anyway. I think that’s coming, though.

      jj joop

      September 16, 2013 at 6:21 pm

    • Super Ted. You are really good. Cooking with “Meth” Jamie Oliver surely? Shurely shome mishtake?

      Windmill1

      September 17, 2013 at 9:49 pm

      • You can talk king of wit windmill1, your very much the sharp tack in that respect.

        I love it, love it, love it

        gaia

        September 18, 2013 at 8:04 am

  26. this is the post wp letter i got after signing for it at jcp
    dear super ted
    i have arranged an interview for you with your personal adviser to discuss the
    support available to you now you have completed your time on the work
    programme
    your appointment details are
    on
    at
    place
    with: blank
    if you are already due to attend the job centre on this day, you only have to come at
    the time above.
    how can the appointment help me ?
    now you have completed your time on the work programme, your personal adviser
    will assess the support you will need, based on your needs and skills, to help you
    find work and stay in suitable work.
    what is the appointment about ?
    reverse page 1
    the interview is to talk about the steps you are taking to look for and prepare for
    work and the help you still need to improve your chances of success. as part of
    this your personal will:
    talk to you about jobs, training and other ways of helping you back to work;
    answer any questions you might have about looking for work;
    look at your job seekers agreement to see if it is still relevant; and
    tell you about the help you may be able to get when you find work.
    if you normally attend a job search review on this day, your personnel adviser will
    also look at the steps you have been taking to find work. please bring details of the
    jobs you have applied for with you, as well as ant letters or anything elese which can
    show that you are looking for work.
    do i need to come to the interview ?
    yes. to continue being paid job seekers allowance, you must come to interviews
    when asked to do so. if you cannot attend at the time you are asked to, you may ask
    to re arrange the appointment. if we cannot agree to re arrange your interview your
    benefit could be stopped if you do not attend, unless you show us that you had a
    good reason for not attending.
    can i get help to attend the interview if i need it ?
    to help you get to the interview, we may be able to provide help with:
    the cost of registered child care if you have children and prefer not to bring them
    with you but have no one to look after them (payment will be made direct to the
    child care provider);
    travel costs if your interview is not on the day or at the place you attend
    example, travel tickets); and
    an interpreter, if English or welsh is not your first language.
    you need to contact us before the interview to arrange any of these.
    what if i cannot come to the interview ?
    please telephone before the interview on the telephone number at the top of this
    letter.
    what happens if i don’t come to an appointment ?
    your claim to job seekers allowance will be closed if you do not contact us within
    five working days of the date of the interview.
    if you contact us within five working days, your job seekers allowance and national
    insurance credits will be stopped (or will be paid at a reduced rate, depending on
    page 2
    your circumstances) unless you show that you had a good reason for your non
    attendance for:
    four weeks, or
    13 weeks if we have previously decided on one or more occasions that your
    jsa should be sanctioned because you committed any of the failures listed
    below within 52 weeks (but not within 2 weeks of your last failure.
    the failures referred to are, if without good reason you:
    do not attend an interview that you have been notified of
    if applicable, fail to take part in a particular employment programme (such as
    the work programme)
    do not take opportunity of a place on an employment programme or
    training scheme.
    refuse or fail to apply for or accept a place on such a programme or scheme
    notified buy your adviser
    fail to attend, or give up a place or through your own misconduct lose a place
    on such a programme or scheme
    do not take the actions included in a job seekers direction.
    what we expect from you
    to get job seekers allowance and credits of national insurance, you must be looking
    for work and are expected to take advantage of all reasonable opportunities that are
    made available to help you do so
    yours sincerely
    blank
    on behalf of manager
    jsa wpc 06/13

    super ted

    September 16, 2013 at 9:31 pm

    • super ted: can you let us know the outcome of this interview, so-called. I’ll be coming off the wp in November. So it would be helpful if I know what to say to them Cheers!

      jj joop

      September 17, 2013 at 11:11 am

  27. its probable going to be a, make it up as you goalongaview ,followed buy lies and bullshit imo 😉

    super ted

    September 17, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    • Yep, sounds about right. But good luck anyway.

      jj joop

      September 17, 2013 at 5:44 pm

    • Please oh please read up on the rules of cookies super ted as your find even though they can make you use an IAD (even this is debatable but that’s another story) its still down to the individual FIRST and not the owner of a device as to whether or not they should except them and its all quite clear under law and I will even explain why.

      If I own a PC with internet connection as its mine I could say to someone asking to use it whether or not I will allow them to allow cookies (could even set the PC to block all if I wanted to). Now despite this the cookies are in relation to an activity which is a website on line and so are tracking (recording statistical data such as sites visited, preference settings, auto login, etc) so is tied to the user as it is them and them alone that generates the specific data recorded.

      So DWP can demand all they like that you use a IAD but they cant demand you except cookies and or part with your personal and sensitive data and the law backs that up making it their for unenforceable. I bet they weren’t counting on little old me noticing that one but none the less when you have time look it up and see what you think.

      For a sanction to be lawfully enforceable it must correct and inline with the laws and do so without infringing the rights of the individual under law and or the rights imposed by the individual under law unless they can show exemption and or exemption to the given rule.

      Now I basically condensed that last paragraph in my own words but this is the standard norm.

      DWP may be able to get around what comes out of our mouths but they cant get around the law.

      Now incase theirs any player haters out their who want to make a song and dance about this post as they have done on others then I hope you can do a better job than DWP as todate I don’t use IADs or UJ accounts to apply through and its all legal and above board.

      gaia

      September 18, 2013 at 9:36 am

  28. It will be just that, play the game, but I suggest you insist you to have the manager there too, otherwise they may claim, as mine has done, she does not understand the system. This way it is more likely to be a win/win. It puts them on the spot. You have mastered your case, they cannot respond. Bear in mind they are not the brightest lamps in the street and are struggling with it too. You can always appeal anyway

    Windmill1

    September 17, 2013 at 10:40 pm

    • Not so sure about that windmill as I’ve already cited in a complaint about a few managers being present with an advisor on account of they try the same lies to but think as their managers that your fall for it and when you make them look small infront of the entire staff out comes the threats.

      The best method I have found which you lot probably already know, is to go in their with the acts/regulations (theirs and the ones that give them powers or not) and operation guides like the toolkit for instance as it legally makes them culpable whether they choose to read them or not and still proceed with a unenforceable sanction. Like I said in another post, just leave the rope and let them walk into it.

      Ive read all their laws and those that are attached cover to cover so I know 90% of what they say is utter bull. You will if you haven’t read them be amazed at actually how LITTLE POWER THEY HAVE.

      JSA/ESA claimants need to picture JCP staff as all ex bullied school kids looking for payback but not those bigger than them. To demonstrate petty you might have noticed they say things in a way to produce a contrived response like raising ones voice for instance.

      They are so seriously bad at it I laugh right in their faces or my usual extremely well rested siting position, arms crossed while smiling smugly and why because im right, because im better at the law than they are and know how to interpret and enforce it on account of having to use more complex laws as a course of my trade when in contract.

      Regardless of this im glad im not the only one fighting injustice and corrupt governments, that many a person here demonstrates the very same steal, I salute you all as those that don’t fight are as the government say mere sheep, fodder for the rich and powerful and so will remain such for the remainder of their lack lust non participation.

      Now I ask you super ted, windmill1 and other astute posters, is it me or are these that seek to tear us down only coming here after they have been sanctioned and that rather than it being their fault that its always ours, always someone else ?

      Its funny how it always works for people like us but not them, strange don’t you think?

      gaia

      September 18, 2013 at 8:46 am

      • My late father in law who was very astute and CEO used to say of these people that they are ” dressed in a little brief authority”, quoting Shakespeare (Measure for Measure), It goes on, “most ignorant of what he is assured, his glassy essence, like an angry ape Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven As makes the angels weep.

        Thought for the day. Digest if you will.

        Windmill1

        September 18, 2013 at 2:21 pm

  29. Windmill1 :
    My late father in law who was very astute and CEO used to say of these people that they are ” dressed in a little brief authority”, quoting Shakespeare (Measure for Measure), It goes on, “most ignorant of what he is assured, his glassy essence, like an angry ape Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven As makes the angels weep.
    Thought for the day. Digest if you will.

    Most profound but I wouldn’t expect any less when it comes from you sir.

    gaia

    September 18, 2013 at 4:38 pm

  30. ps in the words of the immortal Bard,”what happened to Waynetta?”

    Windmill1

    September 18, 2013 at 5:54 pm

    • Hopefully hes earning the bucks as if his story is true I would hate to see him back on the dole what with that sanction still in place unless he got it removed.

      I seriously hope this self employment works out for him, I really do.

      gaia

      September 19, 2013 at 12:29 pm

      • That is good to know. I am reassured. I was having difficulty sleeping at night because of the worry.

        Windmill1

        September 19, 2013 at 2:25 pm

      • Sharp and witty as always sir.

        gaia

        September 20, 2013 at 12:01 pm

  31. OK you got me

    Windmill1

    September 18, 2013 at 7:30 pm

    • Titter!

      The Helping Hand

      September 19, 2013 at 4:47 pm

  32. Gaia you are doing good…it is a thankless task but don’t give up

    Windmill1

    September 19, 2013 at 10:55 pm

    • Thankyou Windmill1, that means a lot coming from some such as yourself who knows the pains only to well.

      I will always endeavour to do all I can to protect all claimants, even the waynes and helping hands of this world.

      gaia

      September 20, 2013 at 12:07 pm

  33. If We Have Too Commute To Sign On.
    >what if there are delays on the public transport system.
    >who will pay the fares. Ipswich to Norwich £20+ Morning Signing In London £ Don’t Even Think About It.
    >G4S And Serco Bidding For Govt Contracts. JOBCENTRE PLUS ??????

    ipswich signer

    September 20, 2013 at 10:08 am

    • If there are delays on public transport, the Jobcentre won’t want to know. The only excuse you’ll have for being late for your signing and not being sanctioned is if you’re dead! And don’t laugh. I’m being serious.

      jj joop

      September 20, 2013 at 11:48 am

    • IPSWICH SIGNER its only at think tank stage and is due to cost unlikely to come about I THINK as logically to make it boarder line cost effective they would have to sanction for at least a year 33% to 40% of the total claimant count.

      This aside if they do , MAY I TAKE THIS MOMENT NOW TO THANK DWP EARILY FOR MY FREE DAY OUT AT THE TAXPAYERS EXPENSE, I LOOK FORWARD TO SHOPPING,MUSEUMS,CINEMA,ETC.

      Now that’s how to get something good out of something bad don’t you think.

      gaia

      September 20, 2013 at 12:32 pm

  34. Windmill1 :
    ps in the words of the immortal Bard,”what happened to Waynetta?”

    Perhaps Wayne / a police officer would like to let us know how is faring. And I promise I’ll be polite and supportive to his whims and rants. No, really I will. Oh Wayne: will you noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo come back to us. Come on, give it up.

    Looking for Wayne (formerly The Helping Hand)

    September 20, 2013 at 11:59 am

    • I have very low self esteem so unless you have been insulted by Wayne, you really don’t exist

      Windmill1

      September 20, 2013 at 2:33 pm

  35. got my exit report review for next week cant wait to see what bull shit they put on that pmsl, letter is from learn direct tho and jhp has gone from the letters but its at the same place tho

    super ted

    September 20, 2013 at 1:05 pm

  36. Windmill1 :
    I have very low self esteem so unless you have been insulted by Wayne, you really don’t exist

    Ouch!

    Looking for Wayne (formerly The Helping Hand)

    September 20, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    • Try to be positive. I am here for you. Wayne could upset you too. I cried obviously. It hurts but it is worth it.

      Windmill1

      September 20, 2013 at 5:56 pm

      • You’re taking the piss, aren’t you! That’s a rhetorical question, by the way.

        Looking for Wayne (formerly The Helping Hand)

        September 20, 2013 at 6:26 pm

      • In response (where none is needed, as you know) are bears Catholic and does the Pope shit in the woods?

        Windmill1

        September 20, 2013 at 6:44 pm

  37. When are you going to announce the fake competition winners on your fake site, Mr Coates?? We are still waiting…

    a police officer

    September 20, 2013 at 5:36 pm

    • Welcome back, Wayne. How are you feeling today?

      Looking for Wayne (formerly The Helping Hand)

      September 20, 2013 at 6:28 pm

      • I known it is late, had friends over and too much sauce but are you suggesting that Wayne is a self employed Policeman? I knew things were getting a little bit desperate but…(sorry, I could not resist)

        Windmill1

        September 21, 2013 at 1:31 am

  38. when are the police going to arrest these 3rd party private company’s for mass fraud of tax payers money

    super ted

    September 20, 2013 at 5:58 pm

  39. Banged to rights Mary Poppins! You’re a gent and no mistake (copyright Dick van Dyke, and how not to do Cockney, ever)

    Windmill1

    September 20, 2013 at 6:11 pm

  40. “A Police Officer/Super Ted” re tax. Normally people get knighthoods or made a lord for this kind of thing if done on a significant scale. What is that all about? I used to work for Barclays and they and lots of other companies have been doing it for decades. Aggressive tax avoidance.

    Windmill1

    September 20, 2013 at 7:26 pm

  41. Windmill1 :
    I known it is late, had friends over and too much sauce but are you suggesting that Wayne is a self employed Policeman? I knew things were getting a little bit desperate but…(sorry, I could not resist)

    Indeed I am. And please, there’s really no need to apologise.

    Looking for Wayne (formerly The Helping Hand)

    September 22, 2013 at 9:39 am

  42. Where are you, dog?

    Looking for Wayne (formerly The Helping Hand)

    September 22, 2013 at 9:40 am

    • I am Windmillus Windmillus Maximus, commander of the armies of the north, and will have my vengeance in this world, or the next.

      Windmill1

      September 22, 2013 at 2:43 pm

      • What are you talking about, or you still sauced up from last night?

        Looking for Wayne (formerly The Helping Hand)

        September 22, 2013 at 3:22 pm

      • No. At least I hope not. “Gladiator” the movie. I take it you have not seen this (Russell Crow). 10 years ago?

        Windmill1

        September 22, 2013 at 3:36 pm

  43. ps When you see Wayne, tell him if he is constipated, you can seek instant relief

    Windmill1

    September 22, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    • If ” Wayne” is constipated = looks like ”Police Officer” glued his mouth up for him. Maybe he could do with a ”Helping Hand”, but that could leave him with a ”scar[ed]face

      Wordsmith

      November 21, 2013 at 11:13 am

  44. Windmill1 :
    No. At least I hope not. “Gladiator” the movie. I take it you have not seen this (Russell Crow). 10 years ago?

    Nope, fraid not. Bummer, eh!

    Looking for Wayne (formerly The Helping Hand)

    September 22, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    • Are you having a bad day?

      Windmill1

      September 22, 2013 at 4:31 pm

  45. Can’t see myself cycling for 90 minutes to sign on… me legs would be like jelly … lol

    Jellyfish

    September 22, 2013 at 7:32 pm

  46. WHY ARE WE WAITING, WHY ARE WE WAITING, MR COATES?? WHEN YOU GOING TO TELL US WHO WON THE SIX WEEKS GIRO AND SIX CRATES OF ABBOT’S ALE?? OR DO YOU AND YOUR IMMIGRANT WIFE WIN ALL THE FAKE COMPETITIONS ON YOUR FAKE SITE, MR COATES??

    a police officer

    September 22, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    • SHUT UP, INNIT!!!

      I am Wayne (formerly The Helping Hand)

      September 26, 2013 at 11:56 am

      • Really.

        I am not Wayne (formerly The Helping Hand)

        September 26, 2013 at 11:57 am

      • Wayne doesn’t live here anymore.

        I don’t know why I’m writing this crap. This is The Helping Hand saying goodbye and thank you for listening. Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh, they’re all over me! Get them off! Just get the fuckers off me, please!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Who is Wayne? (formerly The Helping Hand)

        September 26, 2013 at 12:01 pm

  47. Windmill1 :
    Are you having a bad day?

    I was having a bad day. But guess who’s back! It’s our old friend Wayne/a police officer. And he appears to know how to use an apostophe to denote possession. Well done. Top marks. Although he’s gone an spoiled it by making a racist comment about Mr Coates’ wife. What’s the matter, dog? Don’t you like immigrant’s? Shame on you.

    Looking for Wayne (formerly The Helping Hand)

    September 22, 2013 at 8:28 pm

    • 6 weeks giro and six crates of Abbot’s Ale for the first person who can spot the boo-boo in my posting (above). And Wayne, you’re barred from entering. You’re too thick to see it, anyway. You knucklehead.

      Looking for Wayne (formerly The Helping Hand)

      September 22, 2013 at 8:34 pm

    • Could ”Wayne’s Surname be ”Kerr”

      philip

      September 27, 2013 at 7:26 pm

  48. “A Police Officer” is not happy. These are serious allegations

    Windmill1

    September 22, 2013 at 8:35 pm

  49. Because there is a time delay I did not see previous comments. I am no expert on the law but would suggest racism is not forgivable ever.

    Windmill1

    September 22, 2013 at 8:43 pm

  50. Windmill1 :
    Because there is a time delay I did not see previous comments. I am no expert on the law but would suggest racism is not forgivable ever.

    I’m waiting for Wayne/a police officer’s comment. I’m not holding my breath, though; he’s probably too hungover to remember what he posted, anyway. Hey-ho. Just another day in Wayne’s world, eh.

    Looking for Wayne (formerly The Helping Hand)

    September 23, 2013 at 4:42 pm

  51. Who is Wayne? (formerly The Helping Hand) :
    Wayne doesn’t live here anymore.
    I don’t know why I’m writing this crap. This is The Helping Hand saying goodbye and thank you for listening. Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh, they’re all over me! Get them off! Just get the fuckers off me, please!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Yes, off you fuck. And never darken this forum again.

    jj joop

    September 26, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    • ps. Sounds like someone is having a meltdown.

      jj joop

      September 26, 2013 at 12:09 pm

  52. Annos

    September 27, 2013 at 6:34 pm

    • Hello “Annos”

      I’ve just beaten you by two minutes with the link to the story about the free travel for the Tories in Manchester next week! I posted it on the latest page on this site entitled “A4E Fraud Charges as Work Programme Collapses”.

      Tobanem

      September 27, 2013 at 6:42 pm

      • Well done Tobanem, lol. If anyone was going to do it, it would have been you…

        All the best.

        Annos

        September 27, 2013 at 7:31 pm

  53. SORRY SHOULD HAVE ADDED IS THIS THE SAME AS THE DEFUNCT ECONOMIC LEAUGE

    philip

    October 4, 2013 at 6:02 am

  54. I was sanctioned for not attending one of their activites (the travel time would have been over two hours each way). I informed them beforehand and asked for it to be re-scheduled to another town (travelling time 90 minutes each way) and attended the following week.

    Although the law says the maximum travelling time is 90 minutes, I’m not sure if it applies to Jobseeker’s directions – their internal guide simply says “the travel time and route to and from the place of employment is inappropriate.”.

    Ironically, when I did attend the course, the instructor (very nice guy) said it was a waste of time and couldn’t understand why they’d sent me. I had to insist he take me through the course so I didn’t get a second strike against me.

    I’m going to appeal and then take it to a tribunal, so we’ll see what happens…

    Daniel

    November 21, 2013 at 11:01 am

  55. A computer starts somewhere. It starts with a bios and a CPU and a motherboard ect… When we code that computer to pump out a random number, what makes it pick the number it picks? Exactly the same computer sits beside it’s identical and they both pick different 1st random numbers. Is the Bios fed a seed during construction and every new bios gets a different seed? Those of us that have worked with random numbers know what a seed is. So why does my computer give a number between 100 and 1000 as 756, but yours gives, 537? Is that not a form of intelligence beyond that of artificial? We gave the computer the ability to give random numbers, but what makes it give or pick that random number when in reality it has no ‘will’ to decide. Why 3 and not 4, when it favours nothing? Even with a seed, what makes it choose 5 with this seed but 7 with that seed? Where in the ruels of life does it say that, with this seed equaling 756395837 in that computer, 1st random # will be this?.

    yuki springbed

    September 9, 2014 at 1:08 am

  56. Is it possible to convert a two column Joomla template into a three column one?

    muscle fitness supplements

    September 30, 2014 at 4:08 pm

  57. Is there a degree that exists for use of music AND creative writing two fields? If there is, do you know the name of it?. . I want to combine these two of my interests (loves) but I don’t know what kind of degree offers the use of both.. . Please help? Approaching college?.

    weird gifs

    October 13, 2014 at 4:22 pm

  58. put a post on the sound on sound site or gearslutz 😉

    super ted

    October 13, 2014 at 4:33 pm


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