Ipswich Unemployed Action.

Campaigning for Unemployed Rights.

Workfare Resurfaces.

with 52 comments

Force claimants to work for benefits, government urged

The BBC reports today.

A US-style “work for the dole” scheme could save £3.5bn a year in welfare costs, a campaign group has said.

The Taxpayers’ Alliance (TPA) said only the “extreme sanction” of stopping claimants who refused to do 30 hours’ activity a week from receiving benefits would force them to find work.

In the absence of such a reform, the government’s flagship universal credit would have “limited effect”, it added.

But opponents of the idea have labelled it “unrealistic” and “demeaning”.

The TPA, which campaigns for lower taxes, said individuals claiming the new universal credit should have their payments automatically suspended if they declined to take part in prescribed activities.

Comment: Leaving aside everything else this is guff.

The scheme would cost an enormous amount, in overseers and the type of chancers prepared to run the scheme, to begin with,

Already a failure

For most claimants, that would mean 30 hours a week of community service, charity work, approved training, work experience or “meaningful” job hunting with officials.

Comment: ‘Community Service’ – exactly the same as those sentenced by the Courts as a punishment.

As said, the cash needed to fund those supervising forced labour, “training” and the rest, would be very great.

What would it ‘save’ – only those further punished by having benefits withdrawn. The rest would be engaged in work which would only make a profit for those assigned to the gang-masters running the show.

Unless, of course, the Tax Payers Alliance means that unpaid labour should replace public, salaried, employees.

Exemption..

Parents of those under four-year-olds, those caring for someone with a severe disability, and pensioners would be exempt.

Those claiming incapacity benefit or employment support allowance would be expected to take part in “activity that they are physically able to do”.

TPA chief executive Matthew Sinclair said: “The government is improving the incentive to work, but they need to go further and remove the option of sitting at home and claiming benefits entirely.

“Taxpayers rightly expect something back for the enormous amount they pay for out-of-work benefits, at the very least a real commitment to find a job as soon as possible.”

Comment:

What exactly would they ‘get back’? A horde of resentful bonded labourers either engaged in ‘make work’ schemes, or replacing paid jobs – which would make the dole queue grow!

Mad Frankie Returns.

Former Labour welfare minister Frank Field – who proposed a similar idea in 2009 – urged his party to “seriously look again” at the idea.

“The next Labour government must ensure that claimants are not simply left drawing benefit rather than having an offer of work,” he said.

Comment:

Few doubt that all governments have ‘looked seriously’ at the idea.

Ian Duncan Smith and his friends were initially overjoyed at plans to solve the servant problem.

James Purnell (Labour – just about – at one time)  would like us to sweat as well.

But they all have peered, pored and the perspired over Workfare and found the idea a vast waste of money and unworkable.

Already a Failure.

But one group which campaigns against forcing those looking for a job to work for free said the idea had been tried and had not worked.

“These schemes are already in place and that’s why we can say they’re already a failure,” Joanna Long from Boycott Workfare told BBC Radio 5 Live.

“Study after study comes out from the DWP (Department of Work and Pensions) showing that these schemes have zero effect on helping people find work.”

Exactly!

Reply to Tax Payers Alliance Boycott Workfare: Workfare is Already Here.

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52 Responses

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  1. Here’s the link for the report: Work for the Dole. What it doesn’t say is how much it will actually cost to administer. The fact is it will cost far more to run than what it will save. And if they’re trying to drive people off benefits with the threat of Workfare that won’t work either.

    Mr Coates says: “What exactly would they ‘get back’? A horde of resentful bonded labourers either engaged in ‘make work’ schemes, or replacing paid jobs – which would make the dole queue grow!”

    This is true.

    But what companies who provide Workfare placements will also get is a Million-plus fifth columnists and wreckers who will engage in acts of vandalism and sabotage that may well leave them teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.

    http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/workforthedole.pdf

    The Helping Hand

    September 4, 2013 at 10:58 am

  2. Anton

    September 4, 2013 at 11:20 am

  3. Is there nothing we can do to stop these bastards?

    The TPA are in bed with the BBC and have been for ages.

    I am so fucking sick of this shit.

    ghost whistler

    September 4, 2013 at 11:22 am

    • I also get really annoyed about the way the hard-right ‘Tax Payers Alliance’ (I wonder how many of their members dodge as much as they can) get treated by the BBC as some kind of respectable pressure group.

      Andrew Coates

      September 4, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    • We can ALL stop paying the TV licence for starters. Stop feeding the monster that is trying to kill us!

      TV Licence Free

      September 4, 2013 at 11:18 pm

      • PS You DO NOT require a TV licence to OWN a TV!

        TV Licence Free

        September 4, 2013 at 11:20 pm

      • The Golden Rule (stick to it and you will be safe 🙂 ):

        NO CONTACT!

        DO NOT answer TVL’s threatograms
        DO NOT answer the door to TVL goons
        DO NOT ever, ever let these c!ӣ$s over you doorstep

        NO CONTACT!

        TV Licence Free

        September 4, 2013 at 11:23 pm

  4. In WW2 the Germans had forced labour,(granted under threat of death or starvation) but the “Workers” still sabotaged the Railways and Factories….are they sure they really want to go there?

    jray

    September 4, 2013 at 11:28 am

  5. Is there no limit to how low this government will stoop with their demonising of the unemployed and disabled?

    If there is work to be done, be it for Tesco, Poundland or the local councils it should be paid at least at NNW. There is a major employer in the West Midlands who in conjunction with JCP are accepting claimants onto ‘work trials’ of a month, at which point the candidate is meant to be called to an interview for a permanent job at £9 per hour.

    At the end of the trial claimants are returning to the JC and the company receive a new batch of free labour.

    Chris

    September 4, 2013 at 12:19 pm

  6. QUOTE;
    Exemption..

    Those claiming incapacity benefit or employment support allowance would be expected to take part in “activity that they are physically able to do”.

    People on ESA who suffer from mental or pyschological problems would also be exempt under the exceptional cicumstances rule of ESA rule 29 and rule 35 of the exceptional circumstances applies to anyone who suffers from a mental illness or pyscyological problems .FACT.I know because i won appeal on the basis these 2 rules applied to me.AND DOESNT ARTICLE 23 OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS ACT APPLY HERE:
    Article 23.
    • (1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
    • (2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
    • (3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
    • (4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

    PETER

    September 4, 2013 at 3:41 pm

  7. ARTICLE 25 HUMAN RIGHTS ACT ALSO APPLYS:
    Article 25.
    • (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
    • (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

    PETER

    September 4, 2013 at 3:46 pm

  8. Chris :
    Is there no limit to how low this government will stoop with their demonising of the unemployed and disabled?
    If there is work to be done, be it for Tesco, Poundland or the local councils it should be paid at least at NNW. There is a major employer in the West Midlands who in conjunction with JCP are accepting claimants onto ‘work trials’ of a month, at which point the candidate is meant to be called to an interview for a permanent job at £9 per hour.
    At the end of the trial claimants are returning to the JC and the company receive a new batch of free labour.

    Who is this major employer? I would like to know so I can email them and give them a piece of my mind.

    The Helping Hand

    September 4, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    • I won’t mention any names on here, but they are a large manufacturer of automotive parts. They are easy enough to find on Universal Jobmatch though. They list the post as Production operatives.

      Until a few years ago pretty much every agency in the area used to supply them with workers. I did a stint there myself in the late 90s while I was between jobs myself and they never had temp workers beyond 12 weeks. They used to create a break in employment and start the cycle again. I was always told that this was because they had to offer permanent work after a set time?

      Chris

      September 4, 2013 at 5:53 pm

  9. For peolpe on ESA who suffer from a mental illness (depression ,anxiety/panic attacks ,pyscological problems to name a few are all classsed as a mental illness) then under the ESA RULES-exceptional circumstances -rules 29 and 35 apply to you and you should be placed in the support group, if you are not put in the support group appeal at tribunal and quote the ESA exceptional cicumstances rules 29 and 35 which both apply to you if you suffer from a mental illness. RULE 29 AND 35 OF THE ESA EXCEPTIONAL CIRCUMSTANCES HERE:
    ESA REGULATIONS 2008 – exceptional circumstances
    refer to regulations 29 and 35
    The two regulations state that a claimant should not be found fit for work (regulation 29), or placed in the work-related activity group (regulation 35), if such a decision would pose “a substantial risk” to their “mental or physical health”.
    1. 29.—(1) A claimant who does not have limited capability for work as determined in accordance with the limited capability for work assessment is to be treated as having limited capability for work if paragraph (2) applies to the claimant.

    (2) This paragraph applies if—

    (a) the claimant is suffering from a life threatening disease in relation to which— .
    (i) There is medical evidence that the disease is uncontrollable, or uncontrolled, by a recognized therapeutic procedure; and.
    (ii) in the case of a disease that is uncontrolled, there is a reasonable cause for it not to be controlled by a recognized therapeutic procedure; or.
    (b) The claimant suffers from some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement and, by reasons of such disease or disablement; there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person if the claimant were found not to have limited capability for work.

    PETER

    September 4, 2013 at 4:18 pm

  10. Is not Mr Cameron a self confessed Christian? These People should take a look at: Timothy Chapter 1 verses 5-18 The Laborer is worthy of his wages or words to that effect depending on what version of the bible you access but they all point to the same meaning!

    Carol Joyce

    September 4, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    • If you look at it literally, the life story of Jesus makes him look exactly like the sort of person the TPA (idiots!) would be against.
      Longhaired rebel, layabout, subversive, still living at parents’ house at age 33, answers back to priests and law enforcement agencies (Herod, Romans). Hippy. Resister of military service. Left a perfectly good paid job as a carpenter (father’s business), and deliberately became UNEMPLOYED!!!!! Rabble-rouser, possible terrorist. Questionable morals, as not married by age 33 (if Bible is to be believed, anyway). Hanging around with a bunch of men, and encouraging them to leave their jobs and become unemployed. Association with a prostitute, yet not sleeping with her (according to Bible), thereby damaging the economy by failing in this manly duty! Possibly gay, or gay tendencies. Liberal socialist.
      Political dissident, public preaching. Wandered around HOMELESS or SOFA SURFING, begging and preaching. Complaints against him as a public nuisance, breach of the peace, offences against public order. Convicted criminal, got himself killed.

      Allegedly distributed food to the poor but gave it without selling it, a crime against the sacred capitalism!
      Squatted with his friends as NEW AGE TRAVELLERS in a public park. When his friend cut an ear off a Roman soldier who came to arrest him, this Jesus healed the soldier. Practicing medicine without a licence, and also free of charge. He should at least have bribed the soldier for a better spot to be crucified in, instead of ‘between two thieves’. (Thieves who take things from people are criminals, but people we like can take from people we don’t like.)
      Gave vague answer when questioned on taxation: “Render unto Caesar….”
      Did not even have the good manners to be born where he lived, to live exactly where he was born, to stay put, or to stay in the same job. Born to an unfaithful teenage girl; his legal father apparently not the same as his real father. Brought back the dead, and this messed up their tax status no end….

      something survived...

      October 7, 2013 at 4:14 pm

  11. What do you expect from an extreme neoliberal group like the Taxpayers’ Alliance? This mob are chummy with those nutters from across the Pond, The Tea Party, who appear to act as some sort of a de facto think tank for Matthew Sinclair and his mates judging by the cranky schemes they are forever proposing.

    As for the Radio 5 Live interview, the spokesperson for Boycott Workfare eloquently got the better of her right-wing opponent, despite negative interruptions from Mr Know-It-All, Nicky Campbell.

    Trevor

    September 4, 2013 at 4:27 pm

  12. “From the jobless line to virtual slavery”

    http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/09/01/inenglish/1378041190_009212.html

    Annos

    September 4, 2013 at 4:28 pm

  13. Clearly this The Taxpayers’ Alliance haven’t done their homework as your sanctioned already and all the things they prescribed have already happened under both labour and conservative governments.

    The thing I like as this lot campaign for lower tax is every time you do these things they aren’t for free meaning more tax money spent running and regulating them meaning even less chance of less taxes. Had they done their homework they’d know that actually if I take last years figures on welfare 117billion that only 11billion actually formed the benefit you actually get in your hand for unemployment and housing. Most of the money is wasted on all these peters and pauls who’s job is to take your taxes to administering it.

    Government and these don’t think first organisations don’t want to talk about where has all this 106 billion gone on Social exclusion (23.8 billion) and Social protection (56 billion) which by the way have gone up this year unlike unemployment, housing and family and children which has lowered. Currently the welfare bill this year is 115.2 billion so what happened to this 10.5 billion saving as all I see is less than 2 billion and the year isn’t either over yet so despite cuts like the economy the welfare bill has flatlined to. This government through every piece of crap they have welded all have flatlined. Don’t get me wrong as that means we loan less but it must be faced that this government couldn’t stave the effects of a global crash anymore than labour did.

    Now prove me wrong as it may well exist but the news todate also haven’t covered this fact and figures.

    gaia

    September 4, 2013 at 8:35 pm

    • 50% of welfare benefits are pensions. TPA are that demographic! And they must all be either very healthy or very rich, as the NHS is a free (by taxation) public service. So are schools, roads, etc. Fine, get a chelsea tractor, but don’t whine when there are no roads to drive it on (full of holes) because the rich stopped paying tax. And if you can afford it, buy health insurance. Only for them to laugh in your face when you need care but are suddenly told you’re not covered. And maybe sell your house to pay your own medical bills or stay alive. Then you are one of those non-home-owning renters, worthless scum, that you always complained about!

      TPA are thick!

      And do they not know our benefits are also taxed before we get them? And we buy goods incurring VAT.

      You can be in the TPA, but what about that stately pile you live in with its huge council tax and energy bills, despite the hole in the roof that’s just opened up fully and lets the rain in? It needs fixing but with what? You’ve no practical skills to make/repair anything yourself. You’ve no real friends so you can’t ask them for help or money. In the old days you could get a bank loan but now you are seen as too much of a risk. You are in debt and your children/grandchildren need school and university fees (and nobody gave Tarquin and Jemima part time jobs as they have no transferable skills). You don’t really have a proper job, and can barely explain to anyone what it is you actually do. You could sell one of your cahhhhhhhhhz, darling? That could make getting to all your different clubs and things difficult. But you are no longer in perfect health. Then one day your horse gets ill, and the vet’s bill is more than a person on the dole gets in a year. Selling a couple of cars might get you temporary cash (most of your wealth is unfortunately ‘tied up’!), to repair the roof. However, if you then tried relying more on public transport, you might well discover that under the spending reductions your party advocates, the buses to your village have ben discontinued. So you could try walking…. unless one day you fall off one of your horses and break your leg. The only functioning hospital is now in the next county.
      Still think the rich should pay less tax?

      something survived...

      October 7, 2013 at 4:39 pm

  14. Off topic but i see they’ve lengthened the complaints procedure some more these days, talk about trying to wear you out or what. These jokers will try anything not to look bad before elections, what a bunch of children, how on earth did they get voted in, their all messing up especially my favourite witch hunt theresa may, i just knew her lies would come back to haunt her. And to think the only alternative is just as bigga dick miliband.

    Heaven help GREAT BRITAIN.

    gaia

    September 4, 2013 at 8:45 pm

    • You’ll probably have noticed that the GL24 appeal forms and information about how to make a complaint have been removed from in the job centres too. The area where the information leaflet racks used to be in my jobccentre is now a podium for the G4S goons to stand. Also clause 99 coming in at the beginning of October. No more payments at the assessment rate while appealing decisions if what I’ve read is true.

      Also whenever you go in there, at least 2 of the 4 job search points are always out of order so you end up queuing to do your 20minute job search before an appointment.

      Chris

      September 4, 2013 at 9:03 pm

      • Arr clause 99, for esa claimants.
        The second round is so they can look at the further evidence you often submit to the judge probably to see how they can get around it before saying no again.

        gaia

        September 5, 2013 at 5:06 am

      • The ESA work capability assessments are about as dodgy as one of Arthur Daleys business deals. I’ve had 3 now and each one has been overturned at appeal, I have my 4th next week.

        The government know that this is happening; you get found fit for work and get bullied onto JSA, you go to sign on but you’re under instruction from a GP or consultant to retrain from certain types of work, Or the GP has issued a med 3 (Note) and in both cases you get told by a job centre advisor that you are in breach of your JSA agreement and have to apply for ESA again, for them to disallow it on grounds of the ATOS hcp’s reports.

        Without the assessment rate being paid during appeals there will be a lot of people going cold and hungry this Christmas. The system is failing, ATOS and DWP are corrupt, but rather than sort the problem the government see fit to remove people’s lifeline and allow the whole debacle to carry on.

        Chris

        September 5, 2013 at 1:12 pm

  15. It must be the way my mind works!.

    They are closing down old prisons one after the other, three more today alone!, they say they are not needed, they are building new ones, in Wales and London, the old prisons are being left empty.

    I think its all a ploy, its all part of a plan to re-open these old prisons to put people into when the troubles start. Its called planning ahead.

    Annos

    September 4, 2013 at 11:09 pm

    • “The new closures brings the total number of prisons closed since May 2010 to 16.”

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23958223

      Annos

      September 5, 2013 at 12:23 am

    • Whats interesting is prisons are still over crowded and this was known by the authoritites before the proposed closures, authorities as yet have made no reply.

      gaia

      September 5, 2013 at 4:36 am

      • Ok I get it, its to justify building super max prisons

        gaia

        September 5, 2013 at 6:32 am

    • Either that or recreating Victorian workhouses

      Chris

      September 5, 2013 at 10:08 am

  16. Morning all

    Today on the news The National Audit Office class universal credit of POOR VALUE.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23963867

    gaia

    September 5, 2013 at 5:10 am

  17. UN scrutinising impact of UK housing benefit changes as regards the human rights act.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23963870

    gaia

    September 5, 2013 at 5:19 am

  18. gaia :
    Morning all
    Today on the news The National Audit Office class universal credit of POOR VALUE.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23963867

    I’ve just read your link. Very interesting. Unfortunately this report won’t make a blind bit of difference to IDS and his cadre because they’ve got UC on the brain. They’ve staked their reputations on it. They are obligated to see it through to the bitter end no matter what the projected outcome.

    The Helping Hand

    September 5, 2013 at 6:53 am

    • I hear you helping hand as these findings are past tense but more importantly to much money has been spent now so stopping it isn’t an option.

      I will tell you something though, no program is without bugs and vulnerabilities so im for one looking forward to seeing how quickly I can kick its back door in so hurry up IDS, us programmers are waiting to test out how crap your security is.

      gaia

      September 5, 2013 at 7:38 am

  19. Right, calling all warriors I have been approached by a claimant who states that DWP are forcing them to find a home on account of them being homeless. This claimant has presented evidence to me that they have successfully gained employment on more than one occasion over the last decade along with proof from their council that they have never paid council tax, nor claimed any housing benefit or tax relief over the same period.

    Ive been looking at acts and so forth but todate cant find anywhere where DWP can force a claimant to get housing. All I can find is a possible avenue for them to threaten you with sanctions through using the following.

    1: Availability for work
    2: Availability to actively seek work

    Now from what I have seen in evidence given this claimant has never been sanctioned for any of the above along with never being sanctioned for failing to produce jobsearch evidence todate. So along with the evidence I mentioned in the first paragraph this claimant as far as I can see fullfills the above to requirements 1 and 2 so I fail to see how he can be threatened.
    Ive also know that it is a citizen right to decide if and when they seek benefits so this would mean if a person doesn’t want to claim a benefit that they don’t have to, I also on the sli rang DWP regarding JSA and they informed me no one has to claim it if they don’t want to and cant be forced to under law regardless of being unemployed.

    ANY HELP WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED.

    gaia

    September 5, 2013 at 8:19 am

    • This is crazy. They can ask you to have a postal address but in theory you can go there to pick up letters without living there. Homeless people must sign on 5 days a week. They can’t order you to get a home, something beyond your control. Often it was those people making people homeless in the first place! If you are homeless your health is impaired and your ability to do the ‘jobseeking activity’ would be greatly reduced.
      DWP are talking out of their arse on this one.

      something survived...

      October 7, 2013 at 4:47 pm

  20. TV Licence Free :
    The Golden Rule (stick to it and you will be safe ):
    NO CONTACT!
    DO NOT answer TVL’s threatograms
    DO NOT answer the door to TVL goons
    DO NOT ever, ever let these c!ӣ$s over you doorstep
    NO CONTACT!

    Yes this is true but im afraid you missed out PCs and smart phones, infact anyone who has internet access and a device as UK TV is broadcast their to in realtime. So even though they haven’t reached so low yet could just stop people in the street using smart phones and be asked then to demonstrate proof of licence so naturally your given time to produce but if you fail then they can proceed with court proceedings. A better alternative is to impose a law on IP providers that all bodies taking out internet access must have their details passed to the licencing authority so in your absence could be judged in court and a fine issued which later gets passed to debt collection so its just waiting until you pop up on the radar like ,maybe a traffic or routine stop.

    Im not saying don’t be clever, im saying make sure you are clever as a nobody like me just demonstrated how despite doing that under a circumstance you can be still caught.

    Careful people, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing

    gaia

    September 5, 2013 at 8:43 am

  21. Quote:

    “Taxpayers rightly expect something back for the enormous amount they pay for out-of-work benefits, at the very least a real commitment to find a job as soon as possible.”

    Response:

    The Taxpayers won’t see anything ‘back’, the only people who will see anything are the Private Providers who get £400 per person referred to a MWA.

    The Taxpayers are being conned on an unprecidented scale.

    Obi Wan Kenobi

    September 5, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    • Private providers should be forced to refund that £400 engagement fee if they fail to get a claimant into work after the 2 years.

      Chris

      September 5, 2013 at 3:27 pm

      • I wouldn’t worry as i worked it out so if more are out of work once the two year mark is met that it put the providers under a loss. Naturally they have dipped into other funds to cushion it but strangely enough didn’t IDS state to the taxpayer that providers only get paid on results, funny that’s not what their financials say.

        The quest though is getting this out to the public as absolutely no way does 400 cover a candidate over 2 years, it was never enough from start.

        gaia

        September 6, 2013 at 8:25 am

  22. Chris :
    The ESA work capability assessments are about as dodgy as one of Arthur Daleys business deals. I’ve had 3 now and each one has been overturned at appeal, I have my 4th next week.
    The government know that this is happening; you get found fit for work and get bullied onto JSA, you go to sign on but you’re under instruction from a GP or consultant to retrain from certain types of work, Or the GP has issued a med 3 (Note) and in both cases you get told by a job centre advisor that you are in breach of your JSA agreement and have to apply for ESA again, for them to disallow it on grounds of the ATOS hcp’s reports.
    Without the assessment rate being paid during appeals there will be a lot of people going cold and hungry this Christmas. The system is failing, ATOS and DWP are corrupt, but rather than sort the problem the government see fit to remove people’s lifeline and allow the whole debacle to carry on.

    The way i see it they are the ones saying your fit so apply for work but as you should always be honest show the employer your current medical record as like the work i do (no im not ESA and im fit and healthy on JSA) you have to have a medical for insurance purposes and if you sir were to do it you would fail so wouldn’t get the job. Do you see my point, they cant prove crap so are shifting people to their only line of attack which is

    1:Availability for work
    2:Actively seeking work

    This they naturally cant do with the sick benefits hence the immoral push to get all on JSA.

    gaia

    September 6, 2013 at 8:34 am

    • Just come back from a post WP appointment.. I were told on July 2nd that I would be able to attend college as long as it was under 16hours per week. I’m still covered by a docs note but an looking for and willing to start work if a suitable job came up.

      Been told today that the laws have now changed in the last month and this was now not the case. I’m studying an Access to HE course. She said she will get some clarification and get back to me. She didnt let me leave before making sure MWA and voluntary work was mentioned.

      The law now states that study is only allowed up to NVQ level apparently? Can’t find any info on this.

      Chris

      September 6, 2013 at 10:52 am

      • Jobcentre Plus Labour Market Conditions Guide
        Claimants participating in full-time and part-time study
        Introduction
        Employment Related Courses
        16. An employment related course is any full time course which aims to enhance
        a claimant’s job prospects. It can be for a particular occupation, for
        employment in general or for help in seeking employment.
        17. Examples of these courses are training for a specific driving licence which
        would enhance prospects generally, training for a specific job with an offer of
        work if the course is completed successfully or a course which helps with
        writing CVs and job applications.
        18. If a claimant wishes to undertake an employment related course they need to
        let us know and have it agreed by an adviser before the course starts
        19. As long as completing the course would improve their prospects of
        employment you can treat the claimant as available and actively seeking
        employment and excuse attendance while they complete the course BUT only
        for a maximum of 2 weeks in any 12 months. The two weeks do not need to
        be taken together.
        20. If the claimant wishes to undertake an employment related course which
        lasts longer than 2 weeks and it would improve their prospects of employment
        you can treat them as available and actively seeking employment for the first
        2 weeks of the course only.
        21. A 12 month period for this purpose should be calculated using the date the
        claimant will start the employment-related course. Check whether the
        claimant has already undertaken a course which used this easement within
        the previous 12 months.
        22. For more information on Employment Related Courses see the Treated as
        available and Actively Seeking Chapter.

        glen1305

        September 6, 2013 at 6:09 pm

      • So courses are limited to 2 weeks in any 12 month period now then. I guess that means CSCS cards, SIA licences and forklift training and the like. And even then there will have to be an offer in writing to get it (as was the case on WP).

        Think I may have to sign off and fight my way through the next 7 months without benefits if this is the case. The only way forward is to retrain. I tried to study while on WP and was told that it restricted my availability to work.

        At the moment they seem to be steady with the appointments and my WCA for next week mysteriously cancelled (i sent an official complaint re the last 2 years under DWP so maybe something is happening). I’m hoping that they might leave me alone for a while longer, or at least leave me where I am with my job search.

        Chris

        September 7, 2013 at 9:56 am

  23. I am due to start on a part time course next week which runs 2 days per week. The course will end in June 2014 and I will be working towards a city and guilds level 1 qualification. As long as the course will enhance your employment prospects and you are prepared to quit the course if you get a job, there should be no reason why you can’t start the training course. Just ask in the jobcentre for the following form: ES567SJP Attending a training or education course.

    glen1305

    September 7, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    • Thanks! I’ll have a look to see if its available as a PDF file to download. They had no info in the jobcentre when i was there yesterday, even the advisor said she would have to get clarification and get back to me as its classed as an employment related course in that it can help you back into work but is above NVQ level.

      The lectures are all day Mon and Tuesday. Works out at just short of 15 hours and i still have 3 weekdays and the weekend available to get in a 40 hour working week. I’ve specifically asked to work around these two days, hopefully they will see sense and allow me to look for evening and Wednesday to Sunday hours.

      Chris

      September 7, 2013 at 8:07 pm

      • I got my form from the person who last signed me on at the jobcentre. You just fill in the form and provide your learning agreement or a document signed on behalf of the college to tell/show the jobcentre how many hours a week you attend. You can also start the course before handing the form back in to your advisor at the jobcentre, as part 1 Q9 asks on what date did your course start. As long as the hours you attend the course do not overlap with the hours you are available for work and you are willing and able to take up employment straight away if it’s offered and the course will improve your chances of finding a job, thers should be no reason at all why they would stop you. Worse case senario, as long as the 2 days the course run on are not your signing on day, just don’t say anything to the jobcentre and attend the course.

        glen1305

        September 8, 2013 at 1:00 am

    • So true glen as I start mine tomorrow and if it helps anyone it is a HE part time course so the level is neither here nor their.

      You will note while filling out the booklet which name and number escapes me but the one that goes to the decision maker, that the rules are plastered on it.

      As long as it doesn’t effect your

      AVAILABILITY FOR WORK AND OR ABILITY TO SEEK WORK.

      Also if like me you took out a 24+ advanced learners loan that irrespective of cost or debt incurred as a result of, a claimant must be willing and able to give up the course if offered work or direction by DWP and or arrange to attend the course at another time so as not to effect and to embrace the above mentioned.

      gaia

      September 9, 2013 at 8:47 am

  24. I agree. At the moment things have stalled with my ESA claim. I sent a complaint recorded delivery last week. Mysteriously ATOS have cancelled next weeks medical and the Jobcentre haven’t even decided when to call me in next. Advisor just sent me off with a cv template and said she would probably see me every few months with a phone call in between.

    Like you say, try and hang in with the course as long as possible and sign off when the cack hits the fan.

    Chris

    September 8, 2013 at 4:24 pm

  25. super ted

    September 11, 2013 at 2:51 pm

  26. what about if you do full time voluntary work? i do 30 hours a week work anyway, so dont need this, or community action programme? would doing voluntary work excuse people?

    marky

    September 12, 2013 at 7:11 pm

  27. Apparently if you volunteer that is wrong, they only want us doing workfare and forced ‘volunteering’ we don’t want to do/are useless at. As soon as you like something they stop you doing it.

    something survived...

    October 7, 2013 at 4:53 pm

    • So you have 18 Hours a week in Cancer Research that you found off your own back. Will they find you Another 18 hours in the same shop ?

      philip

      October 7, 2013 at 7:15 pm


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