Ipswich Unemployed Action.

Campaigning for Unemployed Rights.

Universal Jobmatch: Criticism Grows and Grows.

with 135 comments

Many comments here, and on other Blogs by the unemployed, take up Universal Jobmatch.

Having to register with this site, as a condition of receiving JSA, was and is, a big issue.

As is whether or not DWP advisers should have to right to be able to look directly on people’s own accounts.

But more recently people have concentrated, more and more, on the faults of this site.

Here are a few.

  • You have to Log in with a identity in numbers. Most web stuff, like E-Mail, uses a combination of easy to remember name and a couple of numbers. With all the lists of numbers you already have (Debit card, phone and so on), another one is hard to recall. I suspect most of us have to write this one down and keep it – something you don’t always have to hand.
  • You regularly sent a list of Job alerts. The jobs on them are practically never relevant. When they are they could be in addresses that could range (for Ipswich) from London, Southampton to Lincoln. This is clearly an automatically generated system that probably rakes in some money for the American owners of the site, Monster, but is of no help for us.
  • When you do a job search yourself on the site you nearly always tumble on a demand to go through another up-loading CV process, or a long and elaborate form-filling. Most people, that is those using public computer terminals, simply physically cannot do this. Suffolk libraries for example, do not permit uploading from memory sticks, or allow the time to fill in a complicated form.
  • I have yet to hear from somebody who has got a simple register that you have made a  Job Application from an employer.
  • I have yet to hear of anybody who got a job through Universal Jobmatch. Not that there aren’t any – there must be. But amongst the unemployed forced to use the scheme its reputation is simple: you have to use it and show you’ve done so, when you give your fortnightly ‘essay’ on your job search.

I bet there’s plenty more to say!

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135 Responses

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  1. JCP ADVISERS CANNOT MANDATE YOU TO GIVE ACCESS TO YOUR ACCOUNT NOR CAN THEY MANDATE YOU TO PROVIDE PRINT OUTS FROM YOUR UJM ACCOUNT.

    This is from a DWP response to a FOI request:

    “In response to the question you have raised about requiring jobsearch
    evidence from Universal Jobmatch. Advisers cannot mandate claimants to
    give them access to their Universal Jobmatch account, nor can they force a
    claimant to print out screen prints of their UJ account.”

    Apparently they can “suggest” that claimants show print outs:

    “Reviewing jobsearch activity – claimant using Universal Jobmatch (No DWP
    access to their account) 87. To help assess that a claimant is actively
    seeking work you may suggest that they show you:  prints of any number or all
    of the screens/pages detailed in paragraph 86 from their Universal Jobmatch
    account. However, this will not be possible for claimants who do not have access
    to a printer or cannot afford to print out copies of these pages; or  any
    number or all of the screens/pages detailed in paragraph 86 from their Universal
    Jobmatch account if they have access to the internet on a smartphone. Districts
    will need to consider the guidance on Restricted Use of Electronic Media in
    Jobcentres although paragraph 7 in this guidance enables offices to allow
    claimants to use their mobiles for this purpose. 88. If it is not possible for
    the claimant to do any of the above, or the claimant does not wish to accept
    cookies and so needs to use a DWP IAD, advise the claimant that they can login
    to their UJ account and print off copies of the relevant screens/pages from an
    available IAD in your office. 89. However, the onus is on the claimant to
    provide evidence of their jobsearch activity (by whatever means they choose).
    90. Therefore if a claimant does not wish to do this, you will need to base your
    assessment on the evidence they have provided. If this is insufficient and
    you are not completely satisfied they have met the requirements to actively seek
    work, raise a labour market doubt in the usual way!

    The DWP response can be found here:

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque…FOI%203354.pdf

    Gissajob

    July 23, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    • (Not relevant to your comment, but moving the post further to the top…)

      Check out the list of most common employers on Universal Jobmatch right now … http://www.dugjobs.com/employers.php

      CV Library (Job Warehouse Only) Database of agencies (most fake)
      Agency Central Limited (Job Warehouse) Agency
      Technojobs Job Warehouse Only Shady – genuine site, but over inflated jobs on there

      CareerBuilder (Job Warehouse) CareerBuilder one of the dead job boards, now in the top 10 UJM employers but no where to be seen on directgov job search?! A job warehouse site, where mass jobs are imported without checks…. like strike jobs and most of the other job board sites, its just to build traffic to their websites whilst it fills up UJM for the government
      Salian Group – a company with thousands of jobs, yet only 12 likes ( https://www.facebook.com/TheSalianGroup?ref=stream ) not much of a “group” company … the logo suggests its a Kleeneze affiliate … p.s. you can buy “likes” rather easily
      Pieroth Ltd – a Wine company … with so many jobs? One job “Area Sales Representative” in EVERY town… its a sales commission self-employed position – more of an advert than anything else
      Kleeneze – self-employed jobs … no real vacancies exist, as such
      Monster (Job Warehouse) – Monster ….
      One Recruitment Agency
      Infocus Group – a directgov job search parasite legend… major scammer
      Vision Focus Group – all self-employed sales jobs … not a real job
      Staffworks (uk) Limited Agency
      Vicomte Bernard De Romanet Ltd – A direct clone of the Pieroth Ltd jobs … same company? a competitor perhaps? We are a nation of alcoholics, but there is not that much demand for a sales agent in each town for each wine company… we have places called Tescos, Waitrose, Sainsburys etc. to buy booze from
      EPCRS LTD – self employed jobs… catalogues!!! Betterware this time.
      Tjgrecruitment – Agency
      MechanicsRus Ltd – appears to be a legit recruitment business for the motor trade, but who knows
      Aberdeenshire Council – council on an employment drive?!
      Maid2Clean – cleaning agency (a bit obvious, you guess that right? lol)
      Sporting Dreams – teaching agency
      PK Prospekts – more self-employed sales jobs … cannot spell “prospects” correctly or perhaps an internal job
      Harper Construction Recruitment – Agency
      Hunkindistribution – sales agents for more catalogues!
      UK Local Recruitment – worrying customer service and sales positions… job adverts have specific pages on their website to apply for all jobs except the traditional link with a job identifier ID. Seems a one web form to steal your data… would avoid like the plague
      LogicMelon (Job Warehouse) – agency with mass import feature
      Anglian Home Improvements – sales
      The Best Connection – agency
      XL Group – thousands of “Retail Sales Team” positions – more self-employed catalogue delivery and collection – assume like the others, the reason for this is to get a scan of your driving licence perhaps?
      Private Eye Service Ltd – disappointment… is another catalogue collection self-employed positions
      Jobsgopublic (Job Warehouse Only) – agency (with mass import) – many council jobs on their books… by the name it seems its a public sector agency… might just be re-advertising openly available public jobs as available on local government websites
      Eteach Uk Limited – agency for teaching – niche – but also do motor trade and various other positions… very illogical, if they do indeed have real clients, many of which might not have real jobs going
      Hays – Agency

      Excuse my language, but Universal Jobmatch is fucking shit. The top 30 or so, consist of one public employer and potentially a few probably-safe agencies. The rest is littered with agencies, many of which are recession agencies, wine sales people, self-employed jobs galore and catalogue collection businesses.

      Catalogues… Argos, you have to collect from a store. Next is delivered by home delivery(renamed yodel now?). Betterware, Kleeneze and AVON etc are delivered by own agents. What can these catalogue companies really be? Obviously a scam. Thousands are falling for this.

      Recession or not, there aren’t that many jobs going. So how come so many agencies with thousands of jobs, yet employment levels not rocketing by half a million in the next quarter or so?! They are FAKE. Universal Jobmatch is full of scams, fake agencies and even job affiliate sites posting jobs found elsewhere to get traffic, that includes jobsball.com and the like.

      A job.. A job is where you work for an employer for a wage or salary, through the books as PAYE. Self-employed is where you are your own boss, doing your own business as a sole trader. Why is 80% of the “jobs” on Universal Jobmatch, actually self-employed? The fact of the matter is, many jobseekers do not get the self-employed (record keeping, filing tax returns etc.) thing, otherwise they would set up their own business (indeed some do), they are relying on jobs… where the employer deals with paying their tax through a PAYE scheme.

      As for self-employed positions that actually exist that should be a job… these will increase over the next 5+ years, as the government makes pensions contributions mandatory.

      Universal Jobmatch

      July 24, 2013 at 10:23 am

      • I wondered about that CV library myself….

        Andrew Coates

        July 24, 2013 at 10:34 am

      • Andy, it has at least 10,000 agencies… only around 50 are even serious agencies, such as the large ones like Hays, Adecco etc

        The rest are recession agencies (i.e. unemployment = money; do a business in recruitment) – most have little if any actual clients.

        I think around a third of which are part-time second jobs, operated evenings and weekends – you know, they think the industry has the money but not brave enough to jack their job in to do it full time.

        I get the sense many are just “testing the water”. The problem with this, it messes around, and obtain a lot of data from jobseekers.

        Universal Jobmatch

        July 24, 2013 at 10:48 am

  2. ****RECORD ALL YOUR SIGNINGS AND INTERVIEWS!****

    1. To protect myself from sanction-happy JCP advisers, I now record all my signings/interviews. As most signings take place in an open plan area, accommodating me is unfortunately causing my Jobcentre considerable inconvenience because they now have to ensure that I do not accidentally record other claimants’ personal information.

    This is the FOI link for Recording by claimants during interviews, telephone calls etc.

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/167004/response/405790/attach/html/3/Recordings%20by%20claimants1.pdf.html

    2. This is the letter I sent. You may want to add your own reasons for recording your signings. For example: advisor bullying you to sign up to UJM or pestering you for access to your UJM account. And so on.

    Dear ******

    I am writing to advise you that as of the ******, which is my next signing day, I intend to record all my signings/interviews/telephone conversations with the DWP Jobcentre Plus. This will be done via a digital recording device. The recording device will not be visible to the adviser.

    My reason/s for doing this are as follows.

    Recent reports in the media seem to suggest that Jobcentres have been setting targets and league tables to sanction benefit claimants. And that staff are being warned by managers that they will be disciplined unless they increase the number of claimants referred to a tougher benefit regime.

    Furthermore, reading comments made by claimants on various Internet forums, it would appear that some JCP advisers do not know exactly what they are allowed/not allowed to say to claimants, particularly regarding Universal Jobmatch. Some even appear to be making it up as they go along, either through ignorance or just sheer frustration.

    When a claimant is sanctioned or a sanction doubt is raised against them, decision makers tend to believe the DWP by default. Being sanctioned or having a sanction doubt raised against me will cause me considerable financial hardship. Consequently, recording my signings/interviews will ensure that there will be no misunderstanding as to what or wasn’t said between myself and an adviser .

    If my signing/interview takes place in an open plan area, I may accidentally record other claimants’ personal information. To ensure this does not happen you may want to use a private interview room.

    I must stress that these recordings are for my personal use only and will not be published on the Internet. They will only ever be heard by a third party if used as evidence in an appeal should I ever be sanctioned or if a sanction doubt is raised against me.

    I would be grateful if you would write to me confirm receipt of this letter.

    Yours sincerely

    **********

    3. Insist they write back to you. The following link may be of some help. It is for a Jobcentre publication called “About Jobcentre Plus (Our Service Standards)”. You can also get a copy from your local Jobcentre as well. In the back is a feedback form with tick boxes where you can state the nature of your feedback, i.e. a complaint, and how you want them to reply to you, i.e. by letter. Staple this form to your letter. Address the letter to the office manager. Ask for their name at the reception; they are obliged to tell you who it is.

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@benefits/documents/digitalasset/dg_202270.pdf

    4. For whatever reason, some Jobcentre managers may decide not to inform their staff that they are being recorded. To ensure that your adviser is on-message when you sign, advise them that the signing/interview is being recorded and give them a copy of the following letter. When I showed it to the adviser at my last signing, she freaked. She couldn’t wait to get rid of me. She asked me if I’d done any work in the last two weeks and if my circumstances have changed at all, and then it was a case of: OK mate, off you fuck!

    Dear JCP Adviser,

    I wrote to your manager on the ****** to advise them that I intended to record all my signings and interviews with the DWP, and I explained why. This will be done via a digital recording device. The recording device will not be visible to you.

    If my signing/interview takes place in an open plan area, I may accidentally record other claimants’ personal information. To ensure this does not happen you may want to use a private interview room.

    I must stress that these recordings are for my personal use only and will not be published on the Internet. They will only ever be heard by a third party if used as evidence in an appeal should I ever be sanctioned or if a sanction doubt is raised against me.

    Yours sincerely,

    **********

    5. To reinforce your message, email it to your Jobcentre as well. You may also want to send a copy to the JCP district manager.

    http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/managers-by-region.pdf

    The Helping Hand

    July 23, 2013 at 1:47 pm

  3. AS ABOVE, I WANT THE JOB. MY EXPERIENCES AS UNDER.
    1. I HAVE 12 YEARS EXPERIENCE FOR MAIL SORTINGS AS A POSTPERSON.
    2. I HAVE 04 YEARS EXPERIENCE AS A MACHINE OPERATER IN FOOD CO.
    3. I HAVE 03 YEARS EXPERIENCE FOR MACHINE OPERATER IN LA BUGUETEE DOREE.
    4. I AM COMMERCE GRADUATE.

    BHARAT DESAI

    July 23, 2013 at 2:03 pm

  4. As long as you register with UJ, you do not have to give advisors access to your UJ account.
    All jobs on the UJ site can be found on Indeed.co.uk and TotalJobs.co.uk—with the exception of literally one or two.
    When i sign on every two weeks, i bring in a number of printouts of applications I have made using those two agencies and others.
    I have had no problem whatsoever (ever since I showed him the DWPs own memo stating that they cannot insist they have access).

    epsom

    July 23, 2013 at 3:04 pm

  5. Gissajob :
    JCP ADVISERS CANNOT MANDATE YOU TO GIVE ACCESS TO YOUR ACCOUNT NOR CAN THEY MANDATE YOU TO PROVIDE PRINT OUTS FROM YOUR UJM ACCOUNT.

    This is from a DWP response to a FOI request:
    “In response to the question you have raised about requiring jobsearch
    evidence from Universal Jobmatch. Advisers cannot mandate claimants to
    give them access to their Universal Jobmatch account, nor can they force a
    claimant to print out screen prints of their UJ account.”
    Apparently they can “suggest” that claimants show print outs:
    “Reviewing jobsearch activity – claimant using Universal Jobmatch (No DWP
    access to their account) 87. To help assess that a claimant is actively
    seeking work you may suggest that they show you:  prints of any number or all
    of the screens/pages detailed in paragraph 86 from their Universal Jobmatch
    account. However, this will not be possible for claimants who do not have access
    to a printer or cannot afford to print out copies of these pages; or  any
    number or all of the screens/pages detailed in paragraph 86 from their Universal
    Jobmatch account if they have access to the internet on a smartphone. Districts
    will need to consider the guidance on Restricted Use of Electronic Media in
    Jobcentres although paragraph 7 in this guidance enables offices to allow
    claimants to use their mobiles for this purpose. 88. If it is not possible for
    the claimant to do any of the above, or the claimant does not wish to accept
    cookies and so needs to use a DWP IAD, advise the claimant that they can login
    to their UJ account and print off copies of the relevant screens/pages from an
    available IAD in your office. 89. However, the onus is on the claimant to
    provide evidence of their jobsearch activity (by whatever means they choose).
    90. Therefore if a claimant does not wish to do this, you will need to base your
    assessment on the evidence they have provided. If this is insufficient and
    you are not completely satisfied they have met the requirements to actively seek
    work, raise a labour market doubt in the usual way!
    The DWP response can be found here:
    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque…FOI%203354.pdf

    When was this PDF written, because the link to it says *page does not exist”?.
    There have been many amendments to DWP policy etc over the last year/ months and this may have been an early PDF which has now been superceded.

    epsom

    July 23, 2013 at 3:11 pm

  6. Refused to give my JCP adviser access to my UJM account, also refused to give my phone number.

    No sanction, however just out of spite the adviser has referred me to a 4 week MWA. I just hope Cait Reilly wins at the Supreme Court next Monday.

    Obi Wan Kenobi

    July 23, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    • Obi Wan Kenobi :
      Refused to give my JCP adviser access to my UJM account, also refused to give my phone number.
      No sanction, however just out of spite the adviser has referred me to a 4 week MWA. I just hope Cait Reilly wins at the Supreme Court next Monday.

      You should have shown her the DWP directive that tells them that you do not have to give access.
      What is a MWA? Mandatory Work Activity? ….and if it is, what excactly does that entail?

      epsom

      July 23, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    • FAO Obi Wan Kenobi

      Your experience comes as no great surprise – MWA is being used as a punishment for standing your ground!

      You might have read my recent comment on this site within the last few weeks about a conversation I overheard in a Jobcentre between an advisor and claimant. The claimant was being signed-up for UJM and was told to tick the “access” box, because, as the advisor said, “bascially it’s to avoid all the hassle OTHERWISE”!

      DWP rules say that MWA should not be seen as a threat or as a punitive measure. It is also not meant to come as a surprise to the claimant.

      Tobanem

      July 23, 2013 at 4:40 pm

      • 4 weeks is nothing compared to the 2 years on the work programme.

        Obi Wan Kenobi

        July 23, 2013 at 4:47 pm

  7. MWA is a Mandatory Work Activity, it lasts for Four weeks and is 30 hours a week. You can be referred to an MWA anytime unless you are on The Work Programme. As to what you will be doing is anybodys guess however, they have to take into account any medical issues you have and you must ask to see a copy of the firms liability insurance and Health and Safety poster.

    Obi Wan Kenobi

    July 23, 2013 at 4:35 pm

    • FAO Obi Wan Kenobi

      You are now going on MWA, which means you are not volunteering and you are being sent “under the menace of a penalty”.

      That means you are being used as “Forced or Compulsory Labour”, which is illegal under Section 71 of the Coroners and Justice Act 2009 in England, Section 47 of the Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2010.

      Do you intend to challenge the ROLE OF THE EMPLOYER in MWA under that legislation?

      Remember, “Forced or Compulsory Labour” is defined as: “All work or service which is exacted from any person under the menace of any penalty and for which the said person has not offered himself voluntarily”.

      The person who commits the offence is the person (employer) who requires another person to perform forced or compulsory labour.

      Tobanem

      July 23, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    • Obi Wan Kenobi :
      MWA is a Mandatory Work Activity, it lasts for Four weeks and is 30 hours a week. You can be referred to an MWA anytime unless you are on The Work Programme. As to what you will be doing is anybodys guess however, they have to take into account any medical issues you have and you must ask to see a copy of the firms liability insurance and Health and Safety poster.

      My work programme with Seetec finishes in September, but I have been doing voluntary work since January in my local AGEUK shop. This is usually two days a week for about 2 or 3 hrs per day.
      I don’t mind doing that, as I am in charge of the books–and I do get the pick of the best!
      As I am doing this, would I still be “mandated” to do MWA?.

      epsom

      July 23, 2013 at 5:32 pm

      • Epsom:

        If they want to refer you it won’t matter about voluntry work.

        Obi Wan Kenobi

        July 23, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    • Every time they sent me they ignored ALL my medical issues/disabilities.

      something survived...

      July 24, 2013 at 3:19 am

  8. FAO Obi Wan Kenobi

    You say 4 weeks is nothing compared to the Work Programme for two years.

    But what happens if you are repeatedly recycled on MWA?

    Tobanem

    July 23, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    • Wait and see what happens next monday in the Supreme Court.

      Obi Wan Kenobi

      July 23, 2013 at 5:10 pm

      • Obi Wan Kenobi

        When do you start MWA?

        Tobanem

        July 23, 2013 at 6:13 pm

    • I’ve been on these shitschemes since 2003 and churned round and spat out each time.

      something survived...

      July 24, 2013 at 3:20 am

  9. This is information from a well informed individual on another website forum called http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org:

    What is a Mandate?

    In this context it is a judicial command or order, so you merely ask which court, j
    udge, or magistrate made such an order against you, and why the court didn’t contact you prior to this being heard, and why you weren’t allowed to make a defence, then watch them cringe when you tell them to put it all down in writing and sign it with a true signature.

    DWP operate under contract law so contract law applies, it may be a subtle difference, but a very significant one.

    The law applies differently depending on what context it is being used under, and the DWP work solely on consent and contracts, under contract law (which you are under) a mandate must be authorised by a court, magistrate,or a judge, and must be made against a specific person.

    As to terminology, in a previous post we see the phrase “you are expected” being used, what this means is they try to give the impression they have the power, but have none, and you don’t have to follow their instructions as its consensual but they don’t want you knowing they need your consent because they have no power, and need to bully you into doing what they want.

    As regards Monster:

    EU legislation doesn’t apply in America, and the UE/USA agreement is merely that, an agreement which is unenforceable under English and EU law.
    By entering into Monster you do so consensually and agree to their terms and conditions, and even if the EU/USA agreement could be enforced, you have consented to Monsters terms and conditions which means they can do what the hell they like with your personal information and they get round the law by transferring it to a different country, and you have agreed to this by signing up.

    Its all a play on words to dupe people into consensually giving away their personal information.

    Lets look at this in detail:

    At their first appointment they will have to agree a binding (Note: as in Bondage) back-to-work plan laying out what they are required to do.

    “”A FOI request to the DWP in the public domain clearly states that nobody can be forced into signing an action plan.

    “”Contract law (it is a contract) clearly states that any contract entered by threats, bullying, intimidation, or coercion is unlawful and the contract is invalid.

    “”Nobody has to sign any contract.

    “”Any contract can be negotiated

    We’ll be stepping up the pressure on claimants, who will be expected to attend the Jobcentre more frequently, with rigorous monitoring to ensure they are doing everything they can to find work.

    “”Here’s that word “EXPECTED” again, basically they can do nothing and have no power to make you do anything, but like to give you the impression they can.

    Claimants will be expected to be on a training scheme, Mandatory Work Activity placement or intensive work preparation within days of finishing on the Work Programme – losing their benefit if they fail to comply.

    “”Again that word “EXPECTED” and they fail to tell you that it must be appropriate to your experience, qualifications, and skills; and if its not appropriate they cannot force you to do anything anyway.

    Claimants will also have to attend the Jobcentre far more frequently than other jobseekers, with weekly signing on being routine and some people being required to meet their adviser every day.

    “”Totally unlawful, it must be suitable in your personal circumstances, and they cannot financially penalise you, so charge them for your travel, subsistence as you’re perfectly entitled to do.

    Every Work Programme returner will also be required to register with Universal Jobmatch to aid work search and job matching and to allow their adviser to check their work search activity online.

    Clear breach of Article 4 of Human Rights Act, you cannot be forced to give away your personal information, and you’re not obliged to give any personal information to anyone.

    “””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    Had a case just this week where I represented someone none too bright, but a nice individual; it started:

    Hello, I’m John ****** are you Mr ******, no answer was given and we went and sat down, he asked who I was and I told him his lay adviser in such matters and he told me I couldn’t be there, I told him I could and would be, they asked me to leave so I refused and quoted a FOI request I submitted which stated clearly you can have representation and I was that representation.

    “”””Round 1 to us

    He went on to explain that a tough new regime was in place and he would be ‘expected’ to do more to find work, I asked when his agreement changed and where was his signature was on such an agreement, he said he would have to sign a new jobseekers agreement and it was included in this, I asked under what law he HAD to sign any new agreement and to produce it. He said he didn’t have it to hand, so I said produce it, he couldn’t so I stated very clearly that I had a copy of a FOI request which clearly stated that nobody is required to sign any new agreement and their old one can remain in force indefinitely, and showed him.

    “”””Round 2 to us.

    He said he would have to get advice and summoned a manager, the usual bullshit ensued and stated clearly they were saying something totally different to the hierarchy of the DWP who had sent the response to my FOI request, so I asked them both to put this in writing and sign it with their true signature to make them liable, they refused. I merely asked why they were making oral claims and were not prepared to back up their claims in writing bearing their signatures.

    “”””Round 3 to us.

    They then went on to tell us he would have to sign up to UJM as it was compulsory, I asked them to prove jurisdiction to enforce this and show us the legislation, they couldn’t, but provided a document from management which proved it was not actually legislation, merely policy, so I asked how they could even enforce policy without jurisdiction, they claimed they had it. I asked them to prove it as jurisdiction could only be gained if he signed the new agreement and he hadn’t and wouldn’t as he wasn’t obliged to and this was confirmed by a FOI request from their upper echelons and not the muppets they were.
    I also told them to open a UJM account they had to open a Government gateway account and they cannot force anyone to open such an account and backed this up with another FOI request confirming this, so they could do nothing.

    “””””Round 4 to us.

    They then went on to say they could use a jobseekers direction or mandate him to do this, I asked if they were aware they were operating under contract law and they cannot mandate anyone as this mandate under contract law is actually a judicial command or order, and they are neither a court, judge or magistrate, and no actual law exists, only their policy which is unenforceable as he hasn’t signed their new agreement, so no jurisdiction. I also informed them that impersonating a court, court official, judge, or magistrate carries up to 10 years in clink, were they aware of this, it went very quiet.

    “””””Round 5 to us.

    At this point I went into full legal mode and said they were guilty of several civil and criminal offences and these included:

    Fraud by misrepresentation (Fraud Act)
    Fraud by false representation (Fraud Act)
    Fraud by failing to disclose information (Fraud Act)
    and by all the above they would make a gain for themselves and expose another to the risk of loss (benefits)

    Fraud by failing to disclose information (Fraud Act and Contract Legislation under full disclosure rules)

    Possession of articles for use in fraud, namely paperwork which purported to be legislation when it was only policy and they weren’t having it back as it was now evidence.

    Permanently depriving him of his property, tangible or intangible, i.e. personal information (Theft Act)
    Belonging to another – his personal information (Theft Act)
    Robbery by intentionally depriving him of his personal information (Theft Act)
    Blackmail by using menaces (threats to sanction him) to obtain his personal property (Theft Act)

    Failing to provide full disclosure
    Failing to ensure both parties are fully aware of all contractual conditions including all benefits, liabilities, and penalties.
    Making misleading statements in a contract.
    Using threats, intimidation, and coercing him into signing a contract.
    All covered by contract law.

    I went on to say I could go as far as intellectual property legislation, or even the Bill of Rights, or European Human Rights legislation article 6 or even Habeas Corpus.

    They relented.

    “”””””we won the war

    epsom

    July 23, 2013 at 5:53 pm

    • Epsom, does all this mean that someone can avoid Mandatory Work Activity by not consenting to sign any document put before them by their Provider, thereby not entering into any contract with their Provider?

      Tobanem

      July 23, 2013 at 6:27 pm

      • As far as I know you are not required to sign any document when referred to MWA. You might be able to get out of it by asking for written confirmation that you will be covered by the Employers Liability Insurance when on placement, which applies to anyone undertaking paid and unpaid work experience with a company.

        ECAP

        July 23, 2013 at 10:13 pm

    • Epsom you said ” I had a copy of a FOI request which clearly stated that nobody is required to sign any new agreement and their old one can remain in force indefinitely, and showed him.”

      Please can you let us have the link to the relevant FOI request (I have tried to find it but failed). This would be really powerful information to have with us at all times.

      Lucozade

      August 1, 2013 at 8:45 pm

      • Lucozade :
        Epsom you said ” I had a copy of a FOI request which clearly stated that nobody is required to sign any new agreement and their old one can remain in force indefinitely, and
        showed him.”
        Please can you let us have the link to the relevant FOI request (I have tried to find it but failed). This would be really powerful information to have with us at all times.

        I will try to find it and link it here.

        epsom

        August 1, 2013 at 8:53 pm

      • Many thanks!

        Lucozade

        August 1, 2013 at 10:44 pm

  10. I have a major problem with jobmatch, this all happened today. I’ll paste the email i have just sent my mp

    Dear sir, my name is mr Tony Sutcliffe I am long term unemployed and have recently completed the work program. So now i am attending my local job centre to do the intensive job searching program (another complete waste of time). I have to place my detail on the job match site and apply for the fantasy/fake jobs on there. Below is a reply a found in my email account today.

    Dear Tony,
    Thank you for your application
    for the role warehouse
    operation coordinator,
    We have had a significant
    number of applications. I am
    delighted to say we would like
    to hold an interview with you.
    I will confirm all details for a
    date and time for your
    interview by Friday. Could you
    inform us about your availability
    and your earliest start date.
    We are required by law to
    check your eligibility to work in
    the UK.
    In order to make these checks
    please email scanned or
    photocopied for the following:
    (PLEASE NOTE: pictures from a
    camera/camera phone will not
    be accepted/validated)
    Proof of identification: this must
    be a passport
    Proof of residency: This must be
    either a bank statements or
    utility bill showing your current
    address
    Proof of National insurance
    Number: this can be your NI
    card, payslip or P60.
    I would be grateful if you could
    confirm receipt of this message.
    I look forward to your reply,
    Kind Regards,
    Alex Dean

    This clearly a fraudster fishing for personal details and i’m not happy about being forced to surrender my details under threat of sanctions to a website with such poor security. I would like ask for your help and advice with this matter.

    Tony Sutcliffe.

    Tony

    July 23, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    • Tony :
      I have a major problem with jobmatch, this all happened today. I’ll paste the email i have just sent my mp
      Dear sir, my name is mr Tony Sutcliffe I am long term unemployed and have recently completed the work program. So now i am attending my local job centre to do the intensive job searching program (another complete waste of time). I have to place my detail on the job match site and apply for the fantasy/fake jobs on there. Below is a reply a found in my email account today.
      Dear Tony,
      Thank you for your application
      for the role warehouse
      operation coordinator,
      We have had a significant
      number of applications. I am
      delighted to say we would like
      to hold an interview with you.
      I will confirm all details for a
      date and time for your
      interview by Friday. Could you
      inform us about your availability
      and your earliest start date.
      We are required by law to
      check your eligibility to work in
      the UK.
      In order to make these checks
      please email scanned or
      photocopied for the following:
      (PLEASE NOTE: pictures from a
      camera/camera phone will not
      be accepted/validated)
      Proof of identification: this must
      be a passport
      Proof of residency: This must be
      either a bank statements or
      utility bill showing your current
      address
      Proof of National insurance
      Number: this can be your NI
      card, payslip or P60.
      I would be grateful if you could
      confirm receipt of this message.
      I look forward to your reply,
      Kind Regards,
      Alex Dean
      This clearly a fraudster fishing for personal details and i’m not happy about being forced to surrender my details under threat of sanctions to a website with such poor security. I would like ask for your help and advice with this matter.
      Tony Sutcliffe.

      It’s not necessarily a fraud…. UPS ( a legitmate company) ask for almost the same proof of identity etc.
      Why don’t you investigate the company to make sure they say who they are
      ?

      epsom

      July 23, 2013 at 6:29 pm

      • ok, will do.

        Tony

        July 23, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    • Tony,

      Even the Universal Jobmatch site says somewhere that you should not disclose personal information such as your National Insurance number.

      You were right to contact your MP. You should also contact your local Press and the Police – especially about the information requested about your bank account and your address.

      Tobanem

      July 23, 2013 at 6:31 pm

      • I have mailed them back and stated i will bring the documents along to the interview. They have a website but the last latest offer they had on was? 26/06/2011 ?

        Tony

        July 23, 2013 at 7:03 pm

      • Tony

        July 23, 2013 at 7:13 pm

  11. Tobanem :
    Epsom, does all this mean that someone can avoid Mandatory Work Activity by not consenting to sign any document put before them by their Provider, thereby not entering into any contract with their Provider?

    It seems that way Tobanem—–although I would go to http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org and follow assassin, who is the provider of this information.
    You can register for free there, and then go to the forum and search for the member called “assassin”.

    He provides updates and will answer questions if you have any.

    epsom

    July 23, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    • There was someone on here in January this year saying he did not sign any document at the Jobcentre to consent to going on to the Work Programme.

      When he arrived at the Work Programme provider, he did not sign any document – including the travelling expenses form – and answered all their questions with the words: “I do not consent to supply you with information”

      His “confused and perplexed” WP advisor then referred him for a sanction at the Jobcentre.

      He wrote back to the Jobcentre with the words: “I have no contract with this private company, no signed agreement, and I do not consent to provide them with information”.

      Eventually, he was told by the Jobcentre: “We recently told you a doubt has been placed on your entitlement to Jobseekers Allowance. We have decided this doubt no longer applies”.

      I’m now wondering if this “no contract” defence would work with Mandatory Work Activity?

      Tobanem

      July 23, 2013 at 6:48 pm

  12. There was someone on here in January this year saying he did not sign any document

    that was me lol

    super ted

    July 23, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    • Super Ted,

      You might well not have signed any document, but the person I was meaning used a different name to you, and in any event, his writing style was rather different from yours!

      Tobanem

      July 23, 2013 at 6:54 pm

  13. same thing lol i have been to the wp 2 times in 2 years and finish in a few weeks now 😉

    super ted

    July 23, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    • Hello again Super Ted

      Will you do the same thing when they send you on to Mandatory Work Activity?

      Tobanem

      July 23, 2013 at 7:05 pm

  14. For all concerned with Mandatory Work Activity.

    As I understand it, and I am not a lawyer, two possible legal defences exist. Either the “no contract” defence or the “forced or compulsory labour defence” – the latter challenging the role of the MWA employer under the criminal Acts mentioned in my post a few moments ago on this page.

    Get SOMETHING done about it. Don’t just sit there and go under!!!

    Tobanem

    July 23, 2013 at 7:02 pm

  15. i had a letter a while ago from my wp provider saying i had been selected to work for free in a local pound store but i never went so got a sanction for not going.

    i have over turned every sanction the wp has thrown at me.

    cant wait to read my exit report to see what they put on it:)

    looks like ill get the hit squad next ill try to hit them as hard as i can for ya

    super ted

    July 23, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    • Did you sign you’re provider’s data consent form allowing them to share your details with third-parties?

      ECAP

      July 23, 2013 at 10:16 pm

  16. The Cait Reilly case comes up again at the Supreme Court on Monday 29 July. It will be of great interest:

    http://www.supremecourt.gov.uk/current-cases/CCCaseDetails/case_2013_0064.html

    Tobanem

    July 23, 2013 at 8:02 pm

  17. are the job points working at ur jcp? there all of at mine and no pc to use ujm either

    was told to use the local library for 35hrs a week when universal chaos comes in

    super ted

    July 23, 2013 at 8:10 pm

  18. Did you sign you’re provider’s data consent form allowing them to share your details with third-parties?

    no i dont even sign the book at reception i just put a x i dont have to sign the data waver as i have not signed a contract with them so there powerless when they try to sanction me.

    super ted

    July 23, 2013 at 10:53 pm

  19. The UJM site is useless and I was alarmed while using it a couple of weeks ago to be alerted by the security software on my sister’s computer that I should not continue with the job I was looking at because the anti virus software had detected a security problem! It rarely finds any jobs related to my skills in my area. I use a 20 mile radius in my searches and sometimes get jobs 100’s of miles away suggested! I was also sent a list of jobs deemed suitable to my email!
    no.1 was for a fitness instructor with a firs aid certificate.
    no.2 was for a labourer on a building site.
    no.3 was for a peadiatric nurse.

    I am a 60 year old Children’s Nanny looking for work as either a nanny, nursery nurse or PreSchool Assistant so all the above are innapropriat. I am being forced to sign on because this government have stolen my pension until I’m 63 and the job I had hoped to take me through to retirement ended this year.
    It’s insulting to have to keep jumping through thier bloody hoops!

    Carol Joyce

    July 23, 2013 at 10:59 pm

  20. Well this week they told me to be a lorry driver in Poland – ‘local jobs’. I even get sent tons that are for 16-19 years old only, when it knows I’m 36. All jobs sent to me by UJM are hundreds of miles away and totally unsuitable.

    You said what do we have to say. Who said anything about SAY? Just wait till you have bad diarrhoea, and introduce your UJM letter (representing UJM) to the exciting opportunities available in arsewiping.

    something survived...

    July 24, 2013 at 3:37 am

  21. The BBC Newsnight programme is looking for people in danger of eviction due to the bedroom tax and benefits cap.

    This item is of interest to all readers of this page – readers who are potential victims of these savage welfare cuts and sanctions themselves.

    See this link:

    http://dpac.uk.net/2013/07/journalist-calls-for-people-for-newsnight-re-bedroom-tax-and-benefits-cap/

    Tobanem

    July 24, 2013 at 8:03 am

    • Tobanem:

      Had to shoot off last night to reseach MWA rules and regs, I found out that my adviser has not followed the rules for referral at all and tried to coerce me (which is illegal), so I have put a letter together and I’m nipping up the road to MP’s office shortly.

      Obi Wan Kenobi

      July 24, 2013 at 9:33 am

  22. Who is this Epsom as regardless of whether or not JCP understood it, his legal logic appears floored.

    Take article 4 of the human rights act, in all cases I have heard of this in reference to JCP the European court of human rights has rejected all such arguments. The UK until around 2009 didn’t even have an anti slavery law, section 71 of the Coroners and Justice Act 2009 was formed.

    The jobseekers agreement (the bit of paper you take home isn’t the actual agreement) as far as I know so do check it out but it is not a legally binding contract, it use to be printed on it but has now been removed.Epsom is right that no one has to sign a contract but this is mute if infact the agreement isn’t legally binding but as a matter of record do not let no signature be your action as no signature is viewed as acceptance of. This said the public are expected to be afford protection of investment so a legally binding contract is warranted and the unemployed must enter into it if they wish to receive benefit.

    Jobseeker Directions

    3. The purpose of a Jobseeker Direction is to make sure that those claimants who are not
    effectively looking for work, undertake a specific jobsearch activity that will put them in a better position to find a job.

    4. This is distinct from those claimants who: are thought not to be Actively Seeking Employment, which is one of the basic conditions of entitlement for Jobseeker’s Allowance; and Refuse Employment (RE). That is, those who, without good cause, refuse or fail to
    apply for or accept a job notified to them by Jobcentre Plus.

    5. A Jobseeker Direction may be appropriate for claimants who are persistently not taking a
    particular action, or ignoring an obvious route that has been discussed in interviews with an
    adviser.

    6. A Jobseeker Direction is only to be considered when a claimant does not voluntarily
    undertake a particular action, which will improve their prospects of finding work.

    7. A Direction can be used to compel claimants, under risk of loss of Jobseeker’s Allowance
    and/or National Insurance credits, to undertake a specific course of action that the adviser
    deems necessary to move them closer to finding work, as long as it is reasonable and
    appropriate.

    Example
    It may be determined that a claimant is reducing their chances of finding work if they are
    looking for office work and do not have a bank account. As any salary would be paid into a
    bank account, the use of a Jobseeker Direction would be appropriate in this case.
    However, if the claimant was looking for manual work, there is a reduced likelihood that salary would need to be paid into a bank account. It would therefore be unreasonable to issue a Jobseeker Direction, as the claimant cannot be deemed to be reducing their chances of finding work.

    Each of us has different circumstances, take me, since leaving the WP I have attended a post interview but dew to errors have yet to see my actual advisor which may in part be my doing as I prevented my WP provider from conversing with third parties. This said so far the experience has been quite pleasant. They were so far more than satisfied with my job searches and although I refused to sign up to the UJ site (do have a testing account so as to advise others but not actually used), they were still satisfied I was using it effectively regardless. As yet im not on a MWA but im in the throws of going back to college to continue my studies while looking for work so I wouldn’t say no if its one that helps me and is in keeping with my skillsets and direction. Even if I don’t which is highly unlikely unless I secure it myself (multi skilled engineer) its still something to do as it doesn’t take me all day to search for and apply for work but that is my choice and regardless I still fully support the opinion that it should NOT be MANDATORY.

    Ive voiced enough times to DWP/JCP that forcing people to do things who are not this group who are deemed as career benefit takers is immoral and that they would fair far better if they just left rope out for people to step into rather than the blanket cover they currently have as lets face it that they cant produce any evidence to substantiate such a claim.

    Its stated that volunteering will increase your chances of employment but as I pointed out before in another post its a law of averages as the reality for me is that it hasn’t and in some circumstances has worked against me what with the general public generally considering volunteering to NOT BE REAL WORK.

    Also and I did this a few years ago uploading your CV for employers to view doesn’t live up to the claims either and I found the outcome was actually less effective than the traditional method, to be blunt, I DIDNT GET A SINGLE REPLY.

    WORD TO THE WISE, IF YOU HAVE DEBT I WOULDNT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES UPLOAD YOUR PERSONAL DETAILS ONLINE AS FACT, DEBT COMPANIES ARE POSING AS EMPLOYERS TO CHASE DEBTORS.

    This MWA argument really does depend on whether you have been a tax payer or not within a realistic timeframe and even then the stamp we have payed wont if it hasn’t already been spent cover the cost of our respective drawing of benefits over time so we cant really use the words I HAVE A RIGHT TO BENEFITS.

    I don’t know why we as a country don’t close down unemployment benefits and instead pay it as a wage when you lose your original job. I think when a person becomes unemployed that they should go to their councils and tender a CV and based on that skillset place you accordingly within the councils employ so as to keep your skills current (ie, if accountant then account,etc) until you have secured work elsewhere. It works out with most drawing JCP,housing,council tax,etc benefits that at min wage that the individual would to equal it work 37 hours a week. Lose your job here and well no money period. This way all are working, all are keeping our skillsets current, all have dignitiy and self respect and so on and so on.

    Yes this does poke in the eye public workers but in a country where we are broke and in debt it does actually make sound sense for all UK citizens.

    Maybe someone here has an even better idea on improving this defunct system and if so please state as lets face it that the government cant help us so we must help each other if we are ever to get into work and work that actually pays.

    gaia

    July 24, 2013 at 9:48 am

  23. Obi Wan Kenobi :
    Refused to give my JCP adviser access to my UJM account, also refused to give my phone number.
    No sanction, however just out of spite the adviser has referred me to a 4 week MWA. I just hope Cait Reilly wins at the Supreme Court next Monday.

    FWIW, don’t the rules for MWA say that they cannot just simply mandate you. That there has to be reason. I’m sure there was (at least) something along the lines of ‘it cannot be used simply as something to do’.

    ghost whistler

    July 24, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    • Well, the haggis is well and truly in the fire now, been to see my MP and his team and they have taken it on. Will have to wait and see what happens now.

      Obi Wan Kenobi

      July 24, 2013 at 3:43 pm

  24. I simply cannot use this site. It’s so dysfunctional.

    You wouldn’t expect someone to drive a car with broken brakes. yet again the unemployed have zero rights or even say, at all.

    This site is a complete mess. Using it is a giant chore. Here’s an ad for a luggage porter at ‘my client’s hotel’. I have never heard of such a place! of course these assholes never give the full info and it could well be nowhere near where the ad claims to be based – routine basic info is regularly omitted forcing you to follow the links.

    https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/GetJob.aspx?JobID=2759516&JobTitle=Hotel+Porter&rad=10&rad_units=miles&pp=25&sort=rv.dt.di&vw=b&re=134&setype=2&tjt=&where=bs495dp&q=&tm=0&AVSDM=

    If you follow the application link you get another of these dodgy looking CV upload sites. For all I know the link could be genuine, but the lack of info leads me to think otherwise. Of course the JC+ wouldn’t agree.

    This is completely ridiculous. Where’s Anonymous when you need them!

    ghost whistler

    July 24, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    • If your asking what I think your asking at the bottom, it took about 7 and half minutes to do so and no I wont be entering into a discussion on it, im just saying its not safe and for the record no im not Anonymous or lulz sec.

      rage

      July 24, 2013 at 3:45 pm

      • Gaia,
        Firstly, I am a male.
        Secondly, it is not my legal logic….. I would suggest (as previously stated) that you go to http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org and go to the forum.
        You need to register.
        Once you have done that, I suggest you go here:
        https://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=48749&hilit=assassin

        There are 6 pages of debate on UJ—to which I contribute—but you need to look at Assassins contributions, as he seems to know what he is talking about.

        There really needs to be a DEFINITIVE line of information in one place for those Jobseekers who are on JCP or a Work Programme—and not bits and pieces of information here and there.
        You know?…… I personally am of the opinion that JCP and the Work Programme SHOULD be able to help the youngsters 18-24 to get work–there are all types of courses/ apprenticeships/ trainees etc available for the young.
        Those who are older, in their 20’s, 30’s and 40’s are also young enough to be retrained for other types of work—-the fact that there are so many of this age (especially the younger element), means that the WP providers and JCP are NOT doing their job properly.
        I am 58, and I feel this age group is not easy to find work for or to help.
        When you get to this age, you are more or less set in your ways.
        Hey, i would love to train to be a doctor! …. and i am also interested in Law!…. but I think i am a bit old to be retrained in those professions!

        So, thank you for your “blessings”, gaia, but that really does sound a little patronising.

        epsom

        July 24, 2013 at 6:03 pm

  25. Here’s another that seems odd: self employed cleaner? You work for an agency that gets you clients and they pay you and give you the keys to their house to come in and clean. Trust is based on two written references (no CRB mentioned). Seems an awful lot of hassle at best for what must surely be a zero hours affair.

    https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/GetJob.aspx?JobID=2554289&JobTitle=Cleaner+Domestic&rad=10&rad_units=miles&pp=25&sort=rv.dt.di&vw=b&re=134&setype=2&tjt=&where=bs495dp&q=&tm=0&AVSDM=

    ghost whistler

    July 24, 2013 at 2:01 pm

  26. So now we know what jobseekers direction is and how actually it can force you to register a UJ account and use it to apply for jobs on the site so the only thing remaining is WHAT THEY CANT FORCE YOU TO DO.

    THEY CANT FORCE YOU TO UPLOAD YOUR PERSONAL AND SENSITIVE DATA IRRESPECTIVE OF BEING THE DATA CONTROLLER. Unlike the WORK PROGRAMME they cant claim exemption under section 3 of the SSA and the case in point is as if they could then just like the programme they would just sign you up, load your details and order you to use it without first seeking permission from you to.

    Just like the programme providers you again have to enter into agreement with them regarding your personal and sensitive data further proving the case in point. Now unlike the work programme theirs no forwarding of your data at the JCP so JCP is totally reliant on you making the full submission in respect to your PERSONAL AND SENSITIVE DATA. Now as you know or will find out trying to negotiate this DPA procedure with any website is non existent as they are totally reliant on I hate to say but will, your data, all your data so wont want to enter into agreement although don’t quote me just yet until you have tried as they might be the first to.

    Now JCP might say you are being restrictive, well news flash as using british law or the lack of it in the case of how you present you media (work evidence) is NOT BEING RESTRICTIVE WHEN IMPRESSING ITS IMPORTANCE AND LEGALITY UPON THE ADVISOR.

    LAWS ARE WRITTEN SO PEOPLE USE THEM AND OBEY THEM, EVEN THE GOVERNMENT MUST ABIDE BY THEM.

    Next up is work evidence. Well their isn’t a law to cover it as their isn’t a law to cover the recording of it. This means you are free to present it how you please so if you want to put it on a napkin and sneeze all over it or have food stains on it, then your absolutely free to do so as long as it is legible. As for the recording of, if you wish to use paper instead of this electronic record then your free to do so however bare in mind if you do use this UJ account that it automatically does it. Its up to you as I personally don’t see the point but you are free to ring up for these jobs vacancies as is clearly stated on the home page and even while doing that theirs absolutely no way they could tell whether or not you are using your real NR number and name meaning theirs nothing stopping you using a non claiming friends name and number with his or her approval that is.

    Another question often asked of me is CAN JCP FORCE ME TO USE THAT SPECIFIC ACCOUNT TO DO MY SEARCH AND APPLICATIONS. The answer is NO as all they can mandate and only if they can mandate IS THAT YOU USE THE SITE TO SEARCH AND APPLY FOR WORK. Your free to have as many account as you like so for instance you could open up another account for each and every job you apply for although I wouldn’t recommend it dew to time wasted. You could do as I and others do and use the site without signing in as still many, many jobs are giving out email addresses and numbers and the ones that don’t, well you can always pick up the phone and ring the number on the homepage to the site. Their is and I cant say whether its a legality or a moral issue at this stage but it is not equal nor reasonably fair to expect someone to have to sign up and surrender certain rights or ring at cost inorder to gain employment employer details, jobs must be equally accessible to all without restriction.

    I get and read a lot of people complaining about the suggest vacancy part of this program, that its often not in keeping with their searches. Well if you don’t already know, welcome to whats known as a dataset. You see this set isn’t just looking at job titles but at all the text on the pages to the server in question so yes you will get stuff that’s absolutely no help at all.

    To get around this don’t use your account, open another up and use that as a dumping ground while searching and applying but make sure like the other account you don’t use personal data that identifies you while registering. This way your original account remains clutter free and doesn’t supply the evidence you may wish to keep private. As an added bonus you can use this second to print out your work evidence saving you filling out a sheet of paper but do black mark anything that identifies that said second account. Im not saying if I had access to this system that I couldn’t locate you on that as I could very, very easily but in the light of day if DWP/JCP did that and mentioned this finding, they would have to explain why they did it as its prohibited to spy on people without just and legal cause.

    Lastly theirs no law that states you cant encrypt and copyright protect your electronic CV which I strongly recommend you all do. Sadly though until further notice the UJ site doesn’t allow such uploads so do expect to have issues until the site sorts it out which I can tell you will be never as your data is currency so its never in their interests to allow you to hide it. As for the paper version, put DPA controls on it along with your emails,documents, literally anything sent to employers or anybody else for that fact so even if JCP say ignore you, yes im aiming it at you google, the employer would be in DPA breach to dicuss anything with them regarding you.

    I currently use PDF redirect pro for my electronic CV but for the record it isn’t free although if you research it their might be a free one out their.

    Well that’s me out so I hope this is of some token help and yet again may I thank all here who tirelessly work to bring us the truth, even Epsom bless him or her as they made quite an effort and despite what I said earlier still do appreciate their work very much.

    gaia

    July 24, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    • gaia :

      So now we know what jobseekers direction is and how actually it can force you to register a UJ account and use it to apply for jobs on the site so the only thing remaining is WHAT THEY CANT FORCE YOU TO DO.
      THEY CANT FORCE YOU TO UPLOAD YOUR PERSONAL AND SENSITIVE DATA IRRESPECTIVE OF BEING THE DATA CONTROLLER. Unlike the WORK PROGRAMME they cant claim exemption under section 3 of the SSA and the case in point is as if they could then just like the programme they would just sign you up, load your details and order you to use it without first seeking permission from you to.
      Just like the programme providers you again have to enter into agreement with them regarding your personal and sensitive data further proving the case in point. Now unlike the work programme theirs no forwarding of your data at the JCP so JCP is totally reliant on you making the full submission in respect to your PERSONAL AND SENSITIVE DATA. Now as you know or will find out trying to negotiate this DPA procedure with any website is non existent as they are totally reliant on I hate to say but will, your data, all your data so wont want to enter into agreement although don’t quote me just yet until you have tried as they might be the first to.
      Now JCP might say you are being restrictive, well news flash as using british law or the lack of it in the case of how you present you media (work evidence) is NOT BEING RESTRICTIVE WHEN IMPRESSING ITS IMPORTANCE AND LEGALITY UPON THE ADVISOR.
      LAWS ARE WRITTEN SO PEOPLE USE THEM AND OBEY THEM, EVEN THE GOVERNMENT MUST ABIDE BY THEM.
      Next up is work evidence. Well their isn’t a law to cover it as their isn’t a law to cover the recording of it. This means you are free to present it how you please so if you want to put it on a napkin and sneeze all over it or have food stains on it, then your absolutely free to do so as long as it is legible. As for the recording of, if you wish to use paper instead of this electronic record then your free to do so however bare in mind if you do use this UJ account that it automatically does it. Its up to you as I personally don’t see the point but you are free to ring up for these jobs vacancies as is clearly stated on the home page and even while doing that theirs absolutely no way they could tell whether or not you are using your real NR number and name meaning theirs nothing stopping you using a non claiming friends name and number with his or her approval that is.
      Another question often asked of me is CAN JCP FORCE ME TO USE THAT SPECIFIC ACCOUNT TO DO MY SEARCH AND APPLICATIONS. The answer is NO as all they can mandate and only if they can mandate IS THAT YOU USE THE SITE TO SEARCH AND APPLY FOR WORK. Your free to have as many account as you like so for instance you could open up another account for each and every job you apply for although I wouldn’t recommend it dew to time wasted. You could do as I and others do and use the site without signing in as still many, many jobs are giving out email addresses and numbers and the ones that don’t, well you can always pick up the phone and ring the number on the homepage to the site. Their is and I cant say whether its a legality or a moral issue at this stage but it is not equal nor reasonably fair to expect someone to have to sign up and surrender certain rights or ring at cost inorder to gain employment employer details, jobs must be equally accessible to all without restriction.
      I get and read a lot of people complaining about the suggest vacancy part of this program, that its often not in keeping with their searches. Well if you don’t already know, welcome to whats known as a dataset. You see this set isn’t just looking at job titles but at all the text on the pages to the server in question so yes you will get stuff that’s absolutely no help at all.
      To get around this don’t use your account, open another up and use that as a dumping ground while searching and applying but make sure like the other account you don’t use personal data that identifies you while registering. This way your original account remains clutter free and doesn’t supply the evidence you may wish to keep private. As an added bonus you can use this second to print out your work evidence saving you filling out a sheet of paper but do black mark anything that identifies that said second account. Im not saying if I had access to this system that I couldn’t locate you on that as I could very, very easily but in the light of day if DWP/JCP did that and mentioned this finding, they would have to explain why they did it as its prohibited to spy on people without just and legal cause.
      Lastly theirs no law that states you cant encrypt and copyright protect your electronic CV which I strongly recommend you all do. Sadly though until further notice the UJ site doesn’t allow such uploads so do expect to have issues until the site sorts it out which I can tell you will be never as your data is currency so its never in their interests to allow you to hide it. As for the paper version, put DPA controls on it along with your emails,documents, literally anything sent to employers or anybody else for that fact so even if JCP say ignore you, yes im aiming it at you google, the employer would be in DPA breach to dicuss anything with them regarding you.
      I currently use PDF redirect pro for my electronic CV but for the record it isn’t free although if you research it their might be a free one out their.
      Well that’s me out so I hope this is of some token help and yet again may I thank all here who tirelessly work to bring us the truth, even Epsom bless him or her as they made quite an effort and despite what I said earlier still do appreciate their work very much.

      Just to correct you—they can force you to REGISTER on the UJ site, but they cannot force you to look for jobs on the site.
      All the jobs on the UJ site are also on Indeed.co.uk and TotalJobs.co.uk—therefore I use those sites (and others) to apply for jobs and use printouts as proof of jobsearch.
      There is no problem with this.

      epsom

      July 24, 2013 at 5:37 pm

  27. gaia :
    So now we know what jobseekers direction is and how actually it can force you to register a UJ account and use it to apply for jobs on the site so the only thing remaining is WHAT THEY CANT FORCE YOU TO DO.

    THEY CANT FORCE YOU TO UPLOAD YOUR PERSONAL AND SENSITIVE DATA IRRESPECTIVE OF BEING THE DATA CONTROLLER. Unlike the WORK PROGRAMME they cant claim exemption under section 3 of the SSA and the case in point is as if they could then just like the programme they would just sign you up, load your details and order you to use it without first seeking permission from you to.
    Just like the programme providers you again have to enter into agreement with them regarding your personal and sensitive data further proving the case in point. Now unlike the work programme theirs no forwarding of your data at the JCP so JCP is totally reliant on you making the full submission in respect to your PERSONAL AND SENSITIVE DATA. Now as you know or will find out trying to negotiate this DPA procedure with any website is non existent as they are totally reliant on I hate to say but will, your data, all your data so wont want to enter into agreement although don’t quote me just yet until you have tried as they might be the first to.
    Now JCP might say you are being restrictive, well news flash as using british law or the lack of it in the case of how you present you media (work evidence) is NOT BEING RESTRICTIVE WHEN IMPRESSING ITS IMPORTANCE AND LEGALITY UPON THE ADVISOR.
    LAWS ARE WRITTEN SO PEOPLE USE THEM AND OBEY THEM, EVEN THE GOVERNMENT MUST ABIDE BY THEM.
    Next up is work evidence. Well their isn’t a law to cover it as their isn’t a law to cover the recording of it. This means you are free to present it how you please so if you want to put it on a napkin and sneeze all over it or have food stains on it, then your absolutely free to do so as long as it is legible. As for the recording of, if you wish to use paper instead of this electronic record then your free to do so however bare in mind if you do use this UJ account that it automatically does it. Its up to you as I personally don’t see the point but you are free to ring up for these jobs vacancies as is clearly stated on the home page and even while doing that theirs absolutely no way they could tell whether or not you are using your real NR number and name meaning theirs nothing stopping you using a non claiming friends name and number with his or her approval that is.
    Another question often asked of me is CAN JCP FORCE ME TO USE THAT SPECIFIC ACCOUNT TO DO MY SEARCH AND APPLICATIONS. The answer is NO as all they can mandate and only if they can mandate IS THAT YOU USE THE SITE TO SEARCH AND APPLY FOR WORK. Your free to have as many account as you like so for instance you could open up another account for each and every job you apply for although I wouldn’t recommend it dew to time wasted. You could do as I and others do and use the site without signing in as still many, many jobs are giving out email addresses and numbers and the ones that don’t, well you can always pick up the phone and ring the number on the homepage to the site. Their is and I cant say whether its a legality or a moral issue at this stage but it is not equal nor reasonably fair to expect someone to have to sign up and surrender certain rights or ring at cost inorder to gain employment employer details, jobs must be equally accessible to all without restriction.
    I get and read a lot of people complaining about the suggest vacancy part of this program, that its often not in keeping with their searches. Well if you don’t already know, welcome to whats known as a dataset. You see this set isn’t just looking at job titles but at all the text on the pages to the server in question so yes you will get stuff that’s absolutely no help at all.
    To get around this don’t use your account, open another up and use that as a dumping ground while searching and applying but make sure like the other account you don’t use personal data that identifies you while registering. This way your original account remains clutter free and doesn’t supply the evidence you may wish to keep private. As an added bonus you can use this second to print out your work evidence saving you filling out a sheet of paper but do black mark anything that identifies that said second account. Im not saying if I had access to this system that I couldn’t locate you on that as I could very, very easily but in the light of day if DWP/JCP did that and mentioned this finding, they would have to explain why they did it as its prohibited to spy on people without just and legal cause.
    Lastly theirs no law that states you cant encrypt and copyright protect your electronic CV which I strongly recommend you all do. Sadly though until further notice the UJ site doesn’t allow such uploads so do expect to have issues until the site sorts it out which I can tell you will be never as your data is currency so its never in their interests to allow you to hide it. As for the paper version, put DPA controls on it along with your emails,documents, literally anything sent to employers or anybody else for that fact so even if JCP say ignore you, yes im aiming it at you google, the employer would be in DPA breach to dicuss anything with them regarding you.
    I currently use PDF redirect pro for my electronic CV but for the record it isn’t free although if you research it their might be a free one out their.
    Well that’s me out so I hope this is of some token help and yet again may I thank all here who tirelessly work to bring us the truth, even Epsom bless him or her as they made quite an effort and despite what I said earlier still do appreciate their work very much.

    Gaia,
    Firstly, I am a male.
    Secondly, it is not my legal logic….. I would suggest (as previously stated) that you go to http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org and go to the forum.
    You need to register.
    Once you have done that, I suggest you go here:
    https://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=48749&hilit=assassin
    There are 6 pages of debate on UJ—to which I contribute—but you need to look at Assassins contributions, as he seems to know what he is talking about.
    There really needs to be a DEFINITIVE line of information in one place for those Jobseekers who are on JCP or a Work Programme—and not bits and pieces of information here and there.
    You know?…… I personally am of the opinion that JCP and the Work Programme SHOULD be able to help the youngsters 18-24 to get work–there are all types of courses/ apprenticeships/ trainees etc available for the young.
    Those who are older, in their 20′s, 30′s and 40′s are also young enough to be retrained for other types of work—-the fact that there are so many of this age (especially the younger element), means that the WP providers and JCP are NOT doing their job properly.
    I am 58, and I feel this age group is not easy to find work for or to help.
    When you get to this age, you are more or less set in your ways.
    Hey, i would love to train to be a doctor! …. and i am also interested in Law!…. but I think i am a bit old to be retrained in those professions!
    So, thank you for your “blessings”, gaia, but that really does sound a little patronising.

    epsom

    July 24, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    • Firstly sorry if you felt offended, I really really do appreciate yours and others efforts, its no joke as in the beginning I thought I was alone until finding this site and im sure you appreciate when doing it yourself it is hard to look at laws along with looking for work.

      Im 44 so I know how hard it is when at age as employers don’t like people who know employment law and of course lets face it that hiring the young is cheaper not to mention how the government are throwing loads of money at employers just to get them to take them on.

      It is an uphill battle for us more shall we say mature citizens, it gets even worse in my trade as the government keep inventing crap for these peters and pauls companies meaning I have to part with even more money all on account of a new rule meaning yet another college course.

      I wouldn’t say no to you being a doctor or lawyer but we both know JCP wont give you seven years to study it. This said it doesn’t matter if your heart is really set on this as their full time courses so you would have to put in for student loans which do cover living expenses aswell as tuition and you don’t pay them back until your earning over a certain amount. If and this is dependant on your education over the years that you don’t have the necessary ucas points to take these degrees then the 24+ advanced learners loan scheme is available for level 3 and A level courses, this runs like student loans and bursaries.

      Your never to old, infact I think it actually makes you a better candidate what with the maturity and wisdom you have gained over the years. No one likes or feels at ease having a twenty something opening them up or a young cocky lawyer more interested in their reflection than you.

      Its a long road granted but one worth walking as we both started in the days when it was never about qualifications but about starting at the bottom and working our way up so you know real graft. Take me, whether working or not in my trade your always in and out of college and university, its just part and parcel of the skilled sector.

      At the end of the day its your choice but why not do a course or two while your looking for work as even if not a doc or lawyer, theirs other respectable trades like engineering, science, teaching, the list is endless. Even just being a domestic level 3 sparky will net you 20 to 30 grand a year and you can complete the learning in just 2 years.

      Either way I wish you luck and once again I apologise if I offended you as I never meant to.

      gaia

      July 25, 2013 at 2:38 pm

      • gaia :
        Firstly sorry if you felt offended, I really really do appreciate yours and others efforts, its
        no joke as in the beginning I thought I was alone until finding this site and im sure you appreciate when doing it yourself it is hard to look at laws along with looking for work.
        Im 44 so I know how hard it is when at age as employers don’t like people who know employment law and of course lets face it that hiring the young is cheaper not to mention how the government are throwing loads of money at employers just to get them to take them on.
        It is an uphill battle for us more shall we say mature citizens, it gets even worse in my trade as the government keep inventing crap for these peters and pauls companies meaning I have to part with even more money all on account of a new rule meaning yet another college course.
        I wouldn’t say no to you being a doctor or lawyer but we both know JCP wont give you seven years to study it. This said it doesn’t matter if your heart is really set on this as their full time courses so you would have to put in for student loans which do cover living expenses aswell as tuition and you don’t pay them back until your earning over a certain amount. If and this is dependant on your education over the years that you don’t have the necessary ucas points to take these degrees then the 24+ advanced learners loan scheme is available for level 3 and A level courses, this runs like student loans and bursaries.
        Your never to old, infact I think it actually makes you a better candidate what with the maturity and wisdom you have gained over the years. No one likes or feels at ease having a twenty something opening them up or a young cocky lawyer more interested in their reflection than you.
        Its a long road granted but one worth walking as we both started in the days when it was never about qualifications but about starting at the bottom and working our way up so you know real graft. Take me, whether working or not in my trade your always in and out of college and university, its just part and parcel of the skilled sector.
        At the end of the day its your choice but why not do a course or two while your looking for work as even if not a doc or lawyer, theirs other respectable trades like engineering, science, teaching, the list is endless. Even just being a domestic level 3 sparky will net you 20 to 30 grand a year and you can complete the learning in just 2 years.
        Either way I wish you luck and once again I apologise if I offended you as I never meant to.

        Apology accepted Gaia.
        At 58, there is no way in the world that I would start a new career in medicine or law!!!
        No, actually, I am interested in alternative medicine as a particular interest for myself. I don’t need any bits of paper to tell me I passed this or that—-in fact, the whole medical industry is based on fraud —especially the pharmaceutical industry who produce pills for this and for that—and which cause more harm than good.
        It’s all about money and PROFIT.
        It’s a long story, so i won’t go into it here….. and i will tell you that there are cures for cancer , and have been for many years—which are being suppressed because cures are not profitable for the Big Pharma.
        I will give you one example of a cure…. google Rick Simpson on You Tube.
        No, my interests nowadays are purely for my own satisfaction and my desire to learn what I WANT to learn—-rather than having bullshit shoved down my neck as todays “students” are.

        epsom

        July 25, 2013 at 7:50 pm

    • Not from Ipswich here, but hope nobody minds. I don’t think there’s a local group like this where I live.

      I’m really worried I made a stupid mistake. I haven’t claimed JSA since about 5 years ago and went to my first new claim appointment yesterday. It wasn’t what I expected (the one-on-one agreement session of olde). After being herded into a room with twenty or so other new claimants a delightfully optimistic young woman proceeded to process us like cattle, giving handouts and rushing us through signing our agreements. Basically we just had to fill out the three job titles and sign (she really emphasised ONLY to fill that part out). Against my instincts not to sign a form that wasn’t completely filled out, I did so along with everyone else just to get things over with. I don’t know if I’ll have the option to negotiate my jobseeker’s agreement when I go in again in two weeks or if I’ll get back a form with 30 impossible tasks to do each week.

      As for the UJ, I had already signed up to it and saved CVs to apply for a couple of jobs before I started my claim, but I haven’t made them public or authorised DWP to view my account. I really don’t want to do either. Thing is, according to the booklet of digital and social media BS they gave me (Really? You want me to join LinkedIn for a shop job?), i should:

      “Remove unneeded info – Do not list your full address, date of birth or any telephone numbers that you won’t be there to answer. Stick with Name, mobile phone and email details.”

      “Keep your CV tailored and targeted – Match the keywords used in job ad’s”

      It’s funny to me because my address is something I don’t want to share with just anyone, but it’s exactly the kind of info I think would help me out if I was applying to a legit local job. I wonder if I could leave out phone numbers altogether, insist on email contact to a secondary email, make the CV really barebones and spammy with keywords that they think I should be filling it with, and just go along with uploading it and letting the nosy fuckers see it just to keep the peace and take the first crummy job that comes along. I’m still not happy to publicise my work and education history though. A huge part of me wants to fight everything tooth and nail, but the rest of me just wants to concentrate on finding a job. And I’m kind of worried it will impact my mental health and cause me to knock one of these illiterate pencil-pushers the fuck out if I have to sit and argue with them.

      I’ve just had such a damn headache over the whole thing, haven’t slept, spent the last 24 hours just trying to figure out what my rights are when I could have spent that time, you know, job seeking. I am still very interested in trying to compile all of the cold facts and links I can; when I’m back in work I’d like to stand outside the JobCentre and hand out small leaflets with links to the sources so people who don’t realise how they’re being screwed over can get informed.

      Any advice for a semi-psychotic dolie with a short attention span for breathing government rectal excretions would be appreciated. Are the Citizen’s Advice Bureau good at helping out with this kind of thing?

      Gloomybear

      August 21, 2013 at 10:19 am

  28. Annos

    July 25, 2013 at 12:48 am

    • Don’t worry about them as their treated as under 16 hours so you don’t have to except them and even if JCP change the game plan somehow theirs no LAW that states you must sign a employment contract which if you don’t naturally the employer wont hire you.

      gaia

      July 25, 2013 at 2:49 pm

  29. FAO “Epsom”

    Has the web site you refer to ever mentioned Mandatory Work Activity?

    Perhaps you can start a run of comments of that subject on the “get out of debt free” web site?

    It is becoming clear that Mandatory Work Activity is increasingly being used as a reprisal against anyone who dares stand up for themselves at the Jobcentre.

    As you might know from my earlier comment, I overheard someone being told in a Jobcentre to tick the “access” box on Universal Jobmatch, because, as the advisor said, “it’s basically to avoid all the hassle OTHERWISE”!

    Tobanem

    July 25, 2013 at 7:53 am

    • Tobanem :
      FAO “Epsom”
      Has the web site you refer to ever mentioned Mandatory Work Activity?

      Perhaps you can start a run of comments of that subject on the “get out of debt free” web site?
      It is becoming clear that Mandatory Work Activity is increasingly being used as a reprisal against anyone who dares stand up for themselves at the Jobcentre.
      As you might know from my earlier comment, I overheard someone being told in a Jobcentre to tick the “access” box on Universal Jobmatch, because, as the advisor said, “it’s basically to avoid all the hassle OTHERWISE”!

      I refer you to this thread on the getoutofdebtfree site:

      https://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=48749&hilit=assassin

      The thread has a lot of information referring to MWA and the best poster is Assassin.

      epsom

      July 25, 2013 at 2:05 pm

  30. Jobcentre Plus likes to protect itself by disclaiming all liability over any issues which arise from Jobseekers using Universal Jobmatch. Note the following:

    “Jobcentre Plus cannot be held responsible for or accept liability for the content of any displayed website addresses. Any inclusions to an external website from Jobcentre Plus must not be interpreted as an endorsement of that site, product or services it supplies.”

    A case in America resulted in the murder of 3 men who replied to bogus job adverts online:

    http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2013/03/24/a-deadly-warning-from-across-the-ocean-for-universal-jobmatch/

    Tobanem

    July 25, 2013 at 11:50 am

    • Yep, I hear you Tobanem, loud and clear, its just a pity like you say government don’t seem to give a crap. I myself when the site started posed as an employer and it took little to no effort to complete so I know first hand how easy it is and did this to highlight to HQ caxton hse how vulnerable the system actually was but they didn’t want to listen I reckon on account of that they had already paid a fortune so didn’t want to look like a failure. Even before that I myself offered a programme far better that is completely different to any jobsite around.

      Basically not only does it aggregate jobs from any job site but also prepares your cover letter and CV and emails it for you without you ever having to physically do anything after setting up. Dependant on system and set parameters (datasets) you could be if the vacancies were available apply for around a 100 jobs a minute hands free.
      I even tried to sell it to these jobsites but as they saw no profit in it, naturally I got the cold shoulder.

      Put it this way, with my programme once set up with the candidates details means they wouldn’t ever again have to do it manually, JCP would never have to check work evidence ever again, never have to look at what your doing to find work (how you go about it) amongst other plus bonuses.

      As for security though its Im sorry to say a myth that anyone can be protected if we exclude amateurs (these are basically sacrificed lambs gullible to the idea of being a cyber warrior with having the actual knowledge to not get caught). You make it, I break it as at the end of the day its all just voltage states on an IC.

      YOU CANNOT BE PROTECTED while pcs remain to use logical sequencing.

      As for murders and pedos, without a criminal background check which is only good if they have ever been caught your never going to know and i can tell you now if potential employers have to go through that then they wont be advertising any jobs on that site (this applies to all jobsite), as for jobs for erotic dancers and escorts, what if you are one and like your profession, why should they have to have their adverts tucked away in small print in the back of a paper, arent they intitled to equally advertise as its not like the jobs are illegal now is it.

      THAT SAID NO ONE SHOULD BE FORCED INTO THE SEX INDUSTRY PERIOD, SANCTIONED OR OTHERWISE.

      Trust me when I say I will represent anyone being sanctioned for such a thing as I know I wont have to as DWP/JCP no only to well the rules on that one. Regardless of that I’d like to see the advisor explain how they knew the candidate skillset or transferable skillset was right for the job, that would be very funny to hear I suspect.

      The very fact that the DWP DONT EXCEPT LIABILITY JUST PROVES THAT MONSTER DOESNT WORK FOR THEM SO WE ARE TALKING FROM A JCP STAND POINT THAT THE UJ SITE IS A THIRD PARTY, MEANING THE CANDIDATE MUST ENTER INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH THE SITE THUS MAKING THE SITE A SECOND PARTY FROM THE OFF.

      Look for now as I know people are under pressure from shall we be kind and say misguided advisors ( see at least we treat them with respect like their charter says we should but they don’t) do the following.

      1:State at the off that you are not saying NO, just that inorder to be better informed to make the right choice you must first ask a few questions not covered by their documents or advisors.

      2: Ask to know in writing WHERE are the servers that host our personal and sensitive data kept, are they on British soil. Don’t except a verbal explanation, it must be in writing detailing the country and county/state. IF NOT ON BRITISH SOIL, YOU ARE NOT PROTECT BY DPA.

      3: Ask to know in writing WHERE who manages this system resides, again if not on British soil DPA doesn’t apply.

      4: Ask in writing WHAT RELATIONSHIP DWP/JCP HAVE WITH THIS SITE, DO THEY OWN IT, HOW MUCH CONTROL THEY HAVE OVER IT AND WHO MANAGES IT.

      5: In respect to DPA when signing up to this UJ site are you entering into a second or third party agreement.

      6: Inform them that you suspect that you might not agree with all the terms of the contract before signing up, will the DWP/JCP or monster amend these terms to encompass your rights under British law like your right to control the flow of data in respect to third parties.

      7: Same as above but this time in regards to the cookies rules in respect to your rights to privacy. It makes no difference who’s PC it is as it is your footprint they are tracking.

      PLEASE GET THEM TO REPLY IN WRITING ONLY, NO VERBAL EXPLAINATIONS.

      Ok, As you should already know or do now, you are not compelled under any law to sign any contract, this includes the UJ site agreement and cookies rule irrespective of who owns the PC and internet connection. You cannot although they will certainly try punish someone for enforcing their rights under British law and that right is to contest any term within a contract or rule be it one or all of them.

      Like I said, your not saying NO, your just saying that in order to make an informed decision you must first ask a few questions not covered by their documents or advisors.

      Untill it catches on and JCP has caught up this will in the first instance prevent them from both forcing you to sign up and prevent a sanctioning order in the meantime.

      Hope this helps

      gaia

      July 25, 2013 at 1:59 pm

  31. Meanwhile, blood is shed inside Jobcentre at Runcorn:

    http://www.runcornandwidnesweeklynews.co.uk/runcorn-widnes-news/runcorn-widnes-local-news/2013/07/25/man-cuts-throat-with-knife-in-runcorn-benefits-office-in-protest-bedroom-tax-55368-33650506/#.UfECWlIynAt.twitter

    According to an eye witness who was standing in a queue of other people: “Nobody did nothing”.

    Tobanem

    July 25, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    • Wasn’t it yourself that posted a while back how some people in france set themselves alight in protest to unemployment.

      Im not surprized no one did nothing, that’s our species for you but you never know how much of a character this person was before hand so it might have been the norm.

      He clearly never wished to harm himself as you only cut downwards when doing the wrists so as to stop anyone stemming the flow. As for the neck its the jug if you want to do real harm (often ending in death) or pulse artery which even though wont kill you, will make an all mighty mess.

      Think about it, now he will be diagnosed mental so the bed room tax will no longer apply along with the other benefits cap if he handles his Atos right.

      I would follow his case as he might have given people a loop hole, imagine that, people cutting themselves at JCP sign on dates up and down the country, it would certainly get noticed wouldn’t it.

      gaia

      July 25, 2013 at 3:00 pm

      • The whole system is degrading.

        Andrew Coates

        July 25, 2013 at 3:48 pm

  32. THIS IS A COPY OF A POST I SENT TO GETOUTOFDEBTFREE SITE ON APRIL 30TH THIS YEAR.
    IN THE ORIGINAL, I HIGHLIGHTED THE MOST IMPORTANT BITS—-BUT I CANNOT HIGHLIGHT THEM HERE.
    ANYWAY, HERE IT IS:-

    I did the following review of the Terms and conditions for Universal Jobmatch some time ago, when it was not mandatory to register.

    It now seems it is mandatory from this week or last week.
    There are other mandatory schemes to come in, such as looking for work 35 hrs a week–to be tracked online.
    The plan is for all jobseekers to do ALL jobseeking on-line and make jobcentres a thing of the past.

    Those in minimum-waged, part-time jobs of less than 35 hours a week risk losing their benefit unless they attend job interviews with as little as 48 hours’ notice.
    The regulations can even compel a worker to quit the job they have for one with slightly more hours, on pain of freezing their benefit.
    There are plans to sanction you even if you are working. This would happen if, for instance, you are working part time or less than 35 hrs a week and do not try to find full time or higher paid work.

    Anyway, the following is my review ( with questions) that I did before Universal Jobmatch became mandatory:

    UNIVERAL JOBMATCH TERMS AND CONDITIONS

    I have just been looking at the Direct.Gov site ( now http://www.gov.uk), and going over the Terms and Conditions.

    I have found a few interesting items there: I HAVE INSERTED COMMENTS, SO I HOPE YOU CAN DISTINGUISH MY COMMENTS FROM THE T&C’s!

    1. Information

    1.1 This website is managed by Monster Worldwide Ltd–An American company–on behalf of the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP).

    4. Our obligations

    4.7 We will not be contractually bound by any of your actions or statements.

    ***Now, does that mean that if we sign ANYTHING related to this site, that there is actually NO CONTRACT?

    6. Data protection

    6.1 Information you provide to Usmay be passed to relevant service providers, including government departments, agencies or authorities, for example in order to respond to any query you have made with Us or process any application you may have made.
    Your information will be managed in accordance with the law, including the Data Protection Act 1998. For further information please read Our Privacy Policy.

    6.2 We will comply with our legal obligations to keep your information safe and secure, but we cannot guarantee the absolute safety of any information that you send to us. This means that you send Us information at your own risk. We will not pay you any damages to cover any loss that has resulted from someone accessing the service without permission or making changes to information on the site, except for where Our employees or agents are at fault.

    7. User content

    7.3 If you submit User Content to this site you grant Us a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free licence to reproduce, adapt, distribute and publish the User Content through this site.

    7.5 We reserve the right to refuse to accept, post, display or transmit any User Content as we choose

    8. General

    8.1 This service and the use of it are governed by English Law. The English Court system shall have exclusive authority over any disputes connected to or arising out of the use of this service.*
    * If this is so, then the European Court of Human Rights would apply, wouldn’t it? (After going through the corrupt English court system first, of course).

    ****(although Monster Worldwide is a US company)*

    9. Additional terms for Jobseekers

    9.8 You agree that you have no ownership rights in your account and that if you cancel your account or your account is closed, all of your account information, including CVs, saved jobs and questionnaires may be marked as deleted and maybe removed from our databases. Information may continue to be available for some period of time because of delays in processing.
    Third parties may retain saved copies of your information which they have downloaded from the site. We may delete your account and all of your information if you do not use this site at least monthly

    Lots of things there that make one think.

    If we sign this Universal Jobmatch, it should be a contract, right?
    But they say specifically that THEY WILL NOT BE BOUND BY ANY OF OUR ACTIONS OR STATEMENTS.

    Does that mean that anything we sign is null and void?

    As I am aware, a contract has to be signed and agreed by both parties.

    So, if I was to sign up and register with Universal Jobmatch, as they want you to, am I bound to a contract with them?—even though they say they will not be bound by any contracts etc?.

    The Terms and Conditions give overwhelming proof that the individuals data and privacy are not safe and not protected.

    Surely the Terms and Conditions violate privacy laws and are NOT SAFE.
    They actually state that they can do what they wish with OUR information and we have no rights to it!

    Could they be taken to court over this? The English courts first, then, if that fails (and it would), then the European Court of Human Rights.

    epsom

    July 25, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    • The very fact that they state they are bound by DPA means you are fully within your rights to control the flow of your personal and sensitive data in respect to third parties (the site would be a second party).

      Also as ICO will contest to, if the servers or the managers of the system are outside the UK then DPA is invalid, meaning your not protected under it.

      This is why DWP/JCP cant force you to upload your personal and sensitive data, why they cant prove safety in accordance with UK law.

      As for electronically tracking you, the government cant order that either as you would have to be suspected of criminality in order for your human rights not to be violated. I already did a piece on fraud which is what they would have to cite it as but of course this is all mute as they are the data controller in respect to claimants data so being second party in respect to that only, they can look at your data anytime they like, they just cant use it against you if they cant claim criminality.

      As for monsters American, actually their global, we have an office in WC1 London so we would need to know exactly who manages it and where from to be sure.

      The 35 hour thing is the reason why they are so hastily getting universal credit into full swing.
      Think about it, get a job say less than 16 hours and you still receive your other benefits like housing yet they can nolonger threaten you with sanctions as you’ve cancelled down the JSA benefit pound for pound. The reason why their not pushing this currently is well most current vacancies are part time to zero contract so its currently whats deemed as unrealistic, this doesn’t mean they wont try it in the furture. Sadly it wont work on me as I only claim JSA and that’s only because the TAX office informed me that if I don’t that they will keep expecting me to hand in tax declarations every year. Your only listed as unemployed if you are claiming an out of work benefit. I wish they would sanction me as I don’t want anything other than to be on the books as unemployed while searching for work but get this, they said I cant sign on unless I take the money, go figure eh.

      Getting back to tracking and this work search for 30 hours a week, for one if you used just this site you would be infact lowering your chances of finding work, especially if the 22% bit earlier mentioned on a post is right. The UJ site has never been the top site even under its old software so that’s another slam dunk against the idea. Then as no one currently allows anyone 30 hours a week on a PC, not even on the work programme so that’s against the idea too.

      Everyones experience is different at JCP despite the echos, but I have already proved myself to a JCP office, you don’t need 30 hours to do a good search and apply for work and in earnest I would urge against as again in the same office I proved with the aid of a smart phone how I could easily open a few browser pages and change one or two every 5 minutes and even without applying to a single job could spend 30 hours just looking except I never really looked for work at all let alone 30 hours. If it was a desktop and I had admin privileges I could go further and program macros to do the page changing for me meaning now im doing absolutely nothing at all.

      Ive demonstrated how on this site you can encrypt and copyright protect your CV which is perfectly legal yet so sorry these sites don’t allow them to upload because even though they wont admit it, they cant use your data for gain without hacking you first which no matter where you are on this planet you can still be extradited for.

      I have to ask Epsom, have you been forced to sign up already or like me have they left you alone, satisfied with the evidence you already supply?

      gaia

      July 25, 2013 at 4:01 pm

      • gaia :
        The very fact that they state they are bound by DPA means you are fully within your rights to control the flow of your personal and sensitive data in respect to third parties (the site would be a second party).
        Also as ICO will contest to, if the servers or the managers of the system are outside the UK then DPA is invalid, meaning your not protected under it.
        This is why DWP/JCP cant force you to upload your personal and sensitive data, why they cant prove safety in accordance with UK law.
        As for electronically tracking you, the government cant order that either as you would have to be suspected of criminality in order for your human rights not to be violated. I already did a piece on fraud which is what they would have to cite it as but of course this is all mute as they are the data controller in respect to claimants data so being second party in respect to that only, they can look at your data anytime they like, they just cant use it against you if they cant claim criminality.
        As for monsters American, actually their global, we have an office in WC1 London so we would need to know exactly who manages it and where from to be sure.
        The 35 hour thing is the reason why they are so hastily getting universal credit into full swing.
        Think about it, get a job say less than 16 hours and you still receive your other benefits like housing yet they can nolonger threaten you with sanctions as you’ve cancelled down the JSA benefit pound for pound. The reason why their not pushing this currently is well most current vacancies are part time to zero contract so its currently whats deemed as unrealistic, this doesn’t mean they wont try it in the furture. Sadly it wont work on me as I only claim JSA and that’s only because the TAX office informed me that if I don’t that they will keep expecting me to hand in tax declarations every year. Your only listed as unemployed if you are claiming an out of work benefit. I wish they would sanction me as I don’t want anything other than to be on the books as unemployed while searching for work but get this, they said I cant sign on unless I take the money, go figure eh.
        Getting back to tracking and this work search for 30 hours a week, for one if you used just this site you would be infact lowering your chances of finding work, especially if the 22% bit earlier mentioned on a post is right. The UJ site has never been the top site even under its old software so that’s another slam dunk against the idea. Then as no one currently allows anyone 30 hours a week on a PC, not even on the work programme so that’s against the idea too.
        Everyones experience is different at JCP despite the echos, but I have already proved myself to a JCP office, you don’t need 30 hours to do a good search and apply for work and in earnest I would urge against as again in the same office I proved with the aid of a smart phone how I could easily open a few browser pages and change one or two every 5 minutes and even without applying to a single job could spend 30 hours just looking except I never really looked for work at all let alone 30 hours. If it was a desktop and I had admin privileges I could go further and program macros to do the page changing for me meaning now im doing absolutely nothing at all.
        Ive demonstrated how on this site you can encrypt and copyright protect your CV which is perfectly legal yet so sorry these sites don’t allow them to upload because even though they wont admit it, they cant use your data for gain without hacking you first which no matter where you are on this planet you can still be extradited for.
        I have to ask Epsom, have you been forced to sign up already or like me have they left you alone, satisfied with the evidence you already supply?

        The place where our private information goes is at the Monster HQ, which is in Utah, USA.
        They have just finished building the biggest spy network on earth—except for maybe the GCHQ in Cheltenham, UK.
        It is a multi billion dollar HQ and will open in September.

        epsom

        July 25, 2013 at 7:56 pm

      • As I say elsewhere in this thread, gaia, at the moment I am on JCP and I have been asked to register on UJ—-but I have not given them permission to access the account. They can only see that I have registered.
        As long as i take in printouts of my applications, which I do—and I use Indeed.co.uk, TotalJobs.co.uk and others (all the jobs on UJ are on indeed)—-then they are satisfied.

        I am due to leave the work programme in Sept (after 2 yrs) and then it starts again with an “intensive” drive by the JCP to find any excuse to sanction you.
        I look forward to it—-its a challenge! I love a challenge!

        epsom

        July 25, 2013 at 8:04 pm

  33. Dear Andrew coates, any chance of a post on London relocating their claimants as lately the east midlands jobless has increased by 1000 and the west midlands by 15000 and im wondering as these were areas that London councils were trying to relocate housing benefit tenants to.

    If true talk about crazy as the jobs are actually in London so these claimants will be spending thousands just travelling to work everyday. The amount of claimants all going for the same position here is massive meaning now its even harder to find work.

    gaia

    July 25, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    • There was a piece on Channel Four news about a woman having to do that, leaving Enfield.

      I will look into this.

      Andrew Coates

      July 26, 2013 at 9:41 am

  34. Just applied for 2 jobs on Universal Jobwank and the bloody thing hasn’t saved them to my application history, but I have backed it up with screen prints.

    It’s a really crappy system and doesn’t work right.

    Obi Wan Kenobi

    July 25, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    • I haven’t had to apply through UJ site as all mine have supplied contact details todate. but I cant say im surprized what with knowing how the original monster site works.

      You see a secure jobsite will only let potential employers view CVs but prohibits downloading, sadly this doesn’t prevent them from snagging it from the page if in HTML. This aside monster adopted a tier approach which users of the site will know as it doesn’t follow the usual path and you have to upload a CV instead of using the one already uploaded. This approach does not show up in the account holders history.

      So then Obi Wan how did they get you to sign up or did you do it of your own free will ?

      gaia

      July 26, 2013 at 9:39 am

      • It is Mandatory to create an account with your profile and public CV, but not mandatory to use it to search or apply for jobs, I use it occasionally because people who don’t have a computer have to go to the Jobcentre each day, but if you can prove your using it from home they only ask you to go to the Jobcentre once a week.

        Obi Wan Kenobi

        July 26, 2013 at 12:40 pm

  35. Obi Wan Kenobi :
    It is Mandatory to create an account with your profile and public CV, but not mandatory to use it to search or apply for jobs, I use it occasionally because people who don’t have a computer have to go to the Jobcentre each day, but if you can prove your using it from home they only ask you to go to the Jobcentre once a week.

    Mandatory under jobseekers direction if your not fulfilling your jobseekers agreement or not using the UJ site without good course (their isnt one i know of) yes but not if you are currently.

    I always think if you can access your own pc or a friends then do so as lets face it JCP, WP, their all underpowered and slow machines adding valuable minutes to each and every job application which doesn’t help when the sites you do visit are slow enough dew to a lot of traffic.

    As for this your profile and CV they cant make you enter personal and sensitive data onto it meaning what is point of making you register in the first place if you factor in that. Now I thought I read somewhere that the claimants CV is only viewable by those that you apply to but it seems like monsters site that it is infact open to employers regardless of whether or not they have a vacancy.

    This is what I have discovered naturally with the help of people on this very site so cast a view if it doesn’t sound right or need me to expand on certain points.

    It appears that the UJ site when a claimant signs up, forced or otherwise becomes a SECOND PARTY in reference to all data entered by the claimant EXCEPT WHERE IT IS PERSONAL AND SENSITIVE. Now to get around that DWP/JCP has declared themselves as the DATA CONTROLLER THUS MAKING THEM ONLY IN REFERENCE TO PERSONAL AND SENSITIVE DATA A SECOND PARTY. This means the potential employers become THIRD PARTIES NATURALLY. Now UJ isn’t a workfare, scheme or form of training so as such unlike the WP they cant automatically give your PERSONAL AND SENSITIVE DATA to this site by using section 3 of the SSA.

    So what this means is that once the claimant has signed up and if dumb enough uploaded their personal and sensitive data that DWP/JCP can now claim exemption SHOULD YOU TRY AND ALTER YOUR THIRD PARTY RIGHTS AND CAN ACTUALLY REINSTATE IT AGAINST YOUR WISHES EVEN IF YOU GET A JOB AND SIGN OFF AS CAN NOW THE SITE ITSELF. AS I SAID ITS ONLY ILLEGAL TO HAND OUT WILLY NILLY WHEN ON UK SOIL SO UNLESS THE INFRACTION HAPPENS ON BRITISH SOIL DESPITE BEING SECOND PARTY AND THE DATA CONTROLLER, DWP/JCP can do absolutely nothing about it period.

    Whether you like it or not data is the new currency and you would be amazed at how often your own data is bought and sold every second be money or favour (to gain under law doesn’t imply only money). You would not have to draw benefits and some, that’s how much is made out of you or should I say your details, your electronic footprint. The hot to trot IT industry currently is profiling or put a better way the direct aggregation of specific data sets.

    EVER RECIEVED A CHEQUE FOR THE USE OF YOUR DATA, NO YOU HAVENT AS WE THE PUBLIC ARE EXPLOITED VIA THE LAW AND LACK OF IT SO AS TO KEEP THE FULL 100% AWAY FROM US.

    Now some say I removed my name, address and telephone number and I thought for a while myself that this was satisfactory however after attending another convention have since had it demonstrated to me how an individual can identify a person from their work history and although abit harder and not as fullproof and qualifications so even this is to be considered as PERSONAL AND SENSITIVE DATA TOO.

    So I contest anyone who states that an near entire CV isn’t both personal and sensitive thereby proving without doubt that DWP/JCP CANT FORCE YOU TO UPLOAD YOUR CV WHEN CONSIDERING DPA regulations, All they can force you to upload of a CV is hobbies,profile providing no P AND S DATA involved and job description minus the company name and years spent in employment.

    DWP/JCP didn’t have to go down this path but they deliberately choose to solely so they can spy on you for what ever reason (remember they are data controllers so they don’t need you permission period so that little tick box is mute im afraid).
    DWP/JCP could have displayed quite easily the employer details as after all it is them reaching out and not us without signing up to anything so when I say DELIBERATE I MEAN EXACTLY THAT.

    For the record im not just picking on UJ but every jobsite as they all do it day in, day out and its a direct exploitation of peoples personal lives the world over.

    Luckily a jobsite (the PC/SERVER BIT) cant currently object to you uploading whatever text you want so I do strongly urge people to protect their data as open view CVs don’t increase your chances as the same people looking at them are the same people advertising and sending you that dear john email if your lucky enough to get one that is.

    In the UK when a person advertises a vacancy they must do so making sure that its accessible to anyone wishing to apply (equal opportunities) so looking for a singular candidate before interview breaches equality unless they can prove that they had advertised in the normal sense and searched a reasonable amount of candidates CVs and chose more than one. The laws quite muddy on this so take this as a diversion from equality in the immoral sense as I doubt anyone will ever secure a civil conviction against someone such is the work involved.

    Now under article 8 of the HRA YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO PRIVACY so DWP/JCP CANT WITHOUT JUST CAUSE AND IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE NATIONAL LAWS INTERCEPT IN ANYWAY ANY PART OF YOUR CORRESPONDENCE WITH ANOTHER.

    So everyone who has already signed up who feels their privacy and rights have been violated can both reasonable and legally remove any and all personal and sensitive data that they themselves desire without fear of repercussions.

    This also means your application and search history as again it can be used to identify you after around say 5 submissions.

    So if someone decides to do this and DWP/JCP try to sanction them then make sure you get it in writing exactly what rule it was you broke and the most important thing, the nature of the offence specifically as the more people that do it the sooner DWP/JCP will stop hounding people as they have absolutely no legal rights or otherwise to threaten you to stop you removing your personal and sensitive data, They have no legal rights or otherwise to stop you from stoping the recording of your applications which currently until the service is changed would be to not use the UJ site VIA YOUR PERSONAL ACCOUNT WITH THEM.

    Now lets get a little juicier shall we.

    So after all this you must now recognise that through the site before contacting the potential employer and parting with personal and sensitive material that, that potential employer is firmly 100% a third party.

    THIS MEANS UNDER DPA you have the RIGHT to CONTROL the flow of this said data in reference to any and all THIRD PARTIES which means via DPA you can both reasonably and legally state that you will NOT part with your personal and sensitive data to these bodies, even if its the entire database.

    gaia

    July 26, 2013 at 3:43 pm

  36. how is it a condition of receiving JSA to register on uj? im not signed up to it i aint been sanctioned plenty of other people are not signed up to it,

    highpark1

    July 30, 2013 at 10:31 pm

    • They will get round to you.

      Gissajob

      July 31, 2013 at 9:35 am

  37. I saw my UJM adviser today and he demanded access to my UJM account. He said I could decline to give him/them access but that such a choice would show I’m not looking for work or not interested in getting a job and a sanction would apply with immediate effect. Then he told me that the reason I’m not getting interviews is because the paragraph at the top of my CV is too long (it is only the same amount of words as this comment). Idiot.

    Martyn Blackburn

    September 17, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    • Martyn Blackburn :
      I saw my UJM adviser today and he demanded access to my UJM account. He said I could decline to give him/them access but that such a choice would show I’m not looking for work or not interested in getting a job and a sanction would apply with immediate effect. Then he told me that the reason I’m not getting interviews is because the paragraph at the top of my CV is too long (it is only the same amount of words as this comment). Idiot.

      You should give him a print out of their OWN rules and regs…. and show him that he is abusing his “power” and that this is punitive action on his part.
      Tell him that you have no choice but to report him to the DWP.
      There is no way that you are obliged to give access.
      It states quite clearly in JCP Toolkit that you have every right to show him printouts of the jobs you applied for, and that should be proof enough.
      ALL the jobs on UJ site are on indeed.co.uk and totaljobs.co.uk….in fact, when you press “apply” to some jobs on UJ, it takes you straight to those sites.
      You must register, yes…. but you can search the UJ site for jobs without signing in.

      epsom

      September 17, 2013 at 2:19 pm

      • He mentioned that any sanctions would be up to JCP staff discretion, but because I have not given them access, they cannot send me job directions and therefore it would prove I’m not interested in getting a job, and hence they would likely give me a sanction when it comes to my fortnightly review. He then came out with the line “A lot of people who don’t give us access have something to hide…they don’t want to work.” But I will be printing my job searches off instead next time.

        Martyn Blackburn

        September 17, 2013 at 3:01 pm

      • Martyn Blackburn :
        He mentioned that any sanctions would be up to JCP staff discretion, but because I have not given them access, they cannot send me job directions and therefore it would prove I’m not interested in getting a job, and hence they would likely give me a sanction when it comes
        to my fortnightly review. He then came out with the line “A lot of people who don’t give us access have something to hide…they don’t want to work.” But I will be printing my job searches off instead next time.

        I agree entirely with Tobanem.
        You need to write a letter to the DWP and/ or the manager/ess of your JCP branch telling them exactly what has been said by your employment officer (they are not advisors).
        Quote the paragraphs that have been shown by Tobanem.

        They have no right to threaten, harass, intimidate or coerce you regarding access and the threat of sanctions.
        As long as you are applying for jobs and can prove it by printouts, that is enough.
        Having a daily sword of Damocles hanging over you daily, not knowing if you are going to be sanctioned or not is harassment. As far as I am concerned, it comes under “health and safety”, “health” being the operative word. The stress this brings can cause huge problems, ie, heart attacks, strokes etc, therefore this should be reported to the EU court of human rights.
        Another thing……the UJ Site is run by Monster International, a USA company based in USA.
        Their Terms and Conditions state that they can do as they please with your data and you have no rights to it at all!
        The data goes to their new base in Utah, which opened this month. It is the worlds biggest data gathering organisation… with the possible exception of GCHQ in Cheltenham.
        This information makes your privacy and data vulnerable to any number of third parties.

        It is completely irresponsible and that is why I will NOT give my consent to my account on UJ.

        epsom

        September 17, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    • FAO Martyn Blackburn

      It is utterly outrageous for benefit claimants to be threatened with sanctions by Jobcentre advisors for not giving access to Universal Jobmatch accounts.

      The Universal Jobmatch Toolkit used by the DWP clearly states in Chapter 03, paragraph 53: “You [Jobcentre personnel] cannot issue a Jobseeker’s Direction to mandate a claimant to give us access to their account – this is their decision not ours”.

      In chapter 03, paragraph 82 it says: “We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this – it is not therefore possible to require JSA claimants to give DWP access to their Universal Jobmatch account”.

      Refer the matter to your MP, contact the local press and get them to do a report on it, and also report the matter to the PCS Union who requested in January this year that Civil Servants themselves should report any further issues about Universal Jobmatch to their local PCS Union Rep, or to the DWP Group Office in Leeds, email address: Leeds@pcs.org.uk

      DON’T SIMPLY DO NOTHING ABOUT IT. Get some defence on the go!

      Tobanem

      September 17, 2013 at 3:04 pm

      • I can also add that I overheard a conversation in a Jobcentre where a claimant was being signed-up to Universal Jobmatch.

        When it came to the boxes about giving DWP “accesss” to the account, the claimant was told it is best to just tick the boxes, because, and I quote, “basically, it is to avoid all the hassle otherwise”.

        Yes, Jobcentre personnel have got harassment and intimidation in store for those who don’t “co-operate”.

        Tobanem

        September 17, 2013 at 3:12 pm

      • He did say that it was up to me, but because I have not given consent for JCP staff to access my account it implies that I “don’t want to look for work”. Personally, I’ve had all the shit I can take from these people; they are nasty the way that they look at me and everyone else when people walk in and the way they speak to everyone. As well as lacking empathy with those who are struggling, most of them are completely incompetent at their job and have no common sense at all. And I know it is the government who give them these sanction targets and they are to give “uncompromising treatment”. All this shit is just going to back fire and nark people off. They are just going to rebel and not bother getting a job at all.

        Instead, I’m just going to print out my job searches and if they don’t think that is proof it is tough for them. I will contact my MP and go to the press. Thanks for the good advice.

        Martyn Blackburn

        September 17, 2013 at 6:30 pm

  38. Does anyone have any idea of how all this changes for claimants of ‘Unversal Credit’?

    Will they be able to force us to give them access to our UJM accounts?

    Am I correct in thinking that If ‘UC’ is stopped, the money that WOULD have been given to landlords as ‘Housing benefits’ and the money that WOULD have gone to the local council as ‘Council Tax benefit’ for a ‘JSA’ claimant, but which now goes to the ‘UC’ claimant as part of their ‘Universal Credit’, is also stopped as it is lumped in with the money that used to be JSA?

    If so, and if the Jobcentre staff keep getting more vicious (most of the ‘front of house’ staff at my jobcentre have been there for years and are actually quite good poeple. It seems to be the newer staff who work as the ‘advisers’ who are spoiling things), when enough ‘UC’ claimants are made homeless and desparate and angry, then I think all jobcentre staff will have to work behind cages and possibly suffer attacks on the way to or from work.

    I hope that doesn’t happen. But I can’t see it not happening eventually. It’s not looking good. And what’s worse, this crap the unemployed get isn’t necassary. It was the EMPLOYED who caused the ecomonic crisis and Govt. overspending. The employed in the merchant banks and the employed in the stock markets, all of whom bought and sold financial products they didn’t understand and made deals they couldn’t cover. The employed in the government who wasted billions on computer projects and ‘PFI’ initatives, and those employed on the boards of companies who moved production to china etc.

    And who does the great british public and the Govt. blame? The UNemployed. Those who had no power then to do any of that and who have no power now to affect things now.

    sean

    September 21, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    • And it was the EMPLOYED took out Buy-To-Let mortgages and huge loans via Mortgage Equity Withdrawal for 4×4 Hummers, huge fucking plasma screens and load of shite!

      Tyrannasaur

      October 5, 2013 at 6:26 pm

  39. I forgot to ask:

    Does anyone know if my adviser can force me to do shift work, which can start at 6am or earlier or finish at 2am etc. even though I’ve not got my own transport, by making me apply for those jobs and ‘hoping’ that they put me on a shift which means I can get a bus until I can get a bicycyle or something, or make me get a taxi?

    Can she also sanction me for writing ‘No suitable jobs found’ as an entry in my jobsearch log, if I haven’t found any jobs that I think are suitable, by either being on shifts, needing FLT licences, qualifications or experience or skills I don’t have?

    I now have to write out why the different types of jobs aren’t suitable. It’s wasting a huge amount of paper, ink and time.

    sean

    September 21, 2013 at 6:44 pm

  40. Just been on UJM and it’s not coming up with any jobs? The other day when I went on there lots of jobs coming up.

    sean

    September 21, 2013 at 6:50 pm

  41. sean :
    Does anyone know if my adviser can force me to do shift work, which can start at 6am or earlier or finish at 2am etc. even though I’ve not got my own transport, by making me apply for those jobs and ‘hoping’ that they put me on a shift which means I can get a bus until I can get a bicycyle or something, or make me get a taxi?

    First, do the times on your JSAg allow for this? For example, if on your JSAg you’ve agreed to work 0800-1800 daily then they can’t make you apply for jobs with start and end times outside those times.

    Second the only restriction on travel is that you don’t have to take a job if it’ll take you more than 90 minutes to get to it (by whatever means).

    But, in fact, you CAN be sanctioned for applying for a job where it’s unlikely that you’ll be able to get to it, which is the opposite of what they’re doing. For example if you apply for a job that starts at 5am but the buses don’t start running until 6 am and it’ll take more than 90 minutes to walk or cycle.

    Lucozade

    October 5, 2013 at 11:42 am

  42. My JSAg is for 08.00am to 08.00pm 7 days a week for 45 hour week WITH 90 min each way travelling

    philip

    October 5, 2013 at 11:54 am

  43. philip :
    My JSAg is for 08.00am to 08.00pm 7 days a week for 45 hour week WITH 90 min each way travelling

    This comes down to how good you are at negotiating your JSAg. I’ve been unemployed for years but my JSAg is 9-5 Mon-Fri and 40 hours.

    They can’t make you take more than 40 hours in total by the way.

    Lucozade

    October 5, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    • Mines has got no absolutely restrictions whatsoever 😦

      Tracey

      October 5, 2013 at 6:19 pm

  44. Tracey :
    Mines has got no absolutely restrictions whatsoever

    It comes down to how much of a bastard your adviser is Tracey and how clued up you are on the regulations. Most people won’t be clued up at all and the advisers take unfair advantage of that. But also it depends on your personal circumstances. For example, a fit 20 year old who has never worked I would expect to have no restrictions. But someone looking for admin work in a large town might reasonably restrict their jobseeking to 8am to 6pm which will cover 99% of admin jobs.

    Lucozade

    October 5, 2013 at 7:18 pm

  45. The whole site is a hideous waste of time and a complete farce. Jobs either way out of my league or vacancies for Kleeneze catalogue deliverers. The whole process seems to be part of the punishment for being unemployed and claiming JSA. In nearly a year, I’ve not had a single reply – even to say no thanks..

    Rob

    October 15, 2013 at 8:31 pm

  46. What I find worst is that job centre staff don’t actually know how to use the system we are all being asked to.

    Two weeks ago I was told I had to log all my jobs on the UJM site rather than writing them down on a paper form, as I used to. I diligently did so, applying to 3-4 jobs a day for two weeks and logging them all. When it came to my next sign on, the advisor looked at the front page summary of my account that only shows the most recent activity (i.e. the last few jobs applied for), and asked me why I hadn’t done more. I explained that I had, and that he needed to click on the ‘show all’ link to see all I had done. He refused to click the link, and warned me if I didn’t do more next time I could be sanctioned.

    I’ve tried to complain to the job centre about this and gotten no where.

    damnedevenifyouplayalong

    October 18, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    • @ damnedevenifyouplayalong

      Your ‘advisor’ could have been trying to provoke you so you’d flip and give him an excuse to sanction you. Mine picked a random job from a random website and asked me why I hadn’t applied for it. Nice aren’t they?

      Lumpenprole

      October 18, 2013 at 5:42 pm

  47. Lucozade,

    Thanks for the reply. The times used to be 8 am to 5pm Mon to Sat, but if Sat was worked then 1 day off in the week so I would still be doing about 40 hours. But since leaving the 2 year programme thing they changed it no hours listed but still about 40 hours in total, ‘cos the work I can do is often offered in shifts. But they do seem to have listened when I said I can’t start before 6.30am as the earliest bus is 6am. I know about the 90 mins rule and depending on start time I cold theoretically manage it.

    My adviser seems to have calmed down a bit recently.

    UJM isn’t that bad a site. The 2 things I don’t like about are:

    1) The almost complete lack of info in many ads.

    2) We can’t add a cover letter to the application, it only sends our cv’s off. With my lack of work experience and work-based qualifications I need the cover letter to give my application a bit of a ‘spin’ to get around that. (NOT politician type spin, which is usually lies.)

    sean

    October 22, 2013 at 5:11 pm

  48. Soethiong else I forgot to ask:

    What happens when your dole is sanctioned?

    Do you just get no money at all for the length of time your money is sanctioned?

    sean

    October 22, 2013 at 6:15 pm

  49. I POSTED THIS ON ANOTHER FORUM.
    I HIGHLIGHTED CERTAIN IMPORTANT PARAGRAPHS IN THE ORIGINAL, BUT CANNOT DO THAT HERE.

    I THEREFORE URGE YOU TO READ IT ALL THOROUGHLY.

    It’s about time the “advisors” at the JCP were put in their place.

    I am in the process of composing a letter which I plan to send to the Head Office of the DWP.
    It will outline the way that clients are treated and many other issues which need to be addressed.

    For instance, I was asked by my “advisor” if I would be interested in going to a course relating to employment by CenterParcs, a new holiday village which opens in spring next year.
    I said, “yes, I may be interested….. but what if i said I wasn’t?”
    She told me “Well, i have to send you on something”!.
    You see? TARGETS.
    they are NOT helping, they have SET TARGETS, which they need to fulfill, or THEIR JOBS ARE ON THE LINE.
    They are sending square pegs into round holes….people who are maybe not suited to the job.
    also, I was told it was a ONE DAY course, 9.30 to 4.30…..It turned out to be a TWO DAY course! Therefore, I had to find more bus fare (would be paid back, but takes 5 days) and I let down my charity shop, whom I work for as a volunteer and said i would be in on Tuesday.

    I have found some interesting articles on the DIRECTGOV site itself relating to harassment and bribery etc.
    Now, it is well known that they have targets and that staff at some jobcenters have been given bribes, such as easter eggs, to get them to meet their targets. (This has been documented in the media).

    FROM http://www.gov.uk OWN SITE:

    Anti-bribery policy

    It is illegal to offer, promise, give, request, agree, receive or accept bribes – an anti-bribery policy can help protect your business.
    You should have an anti-bribery policy if there is a risk that someone who works for you or on your behalf might be exposed to bribery.
    Your anti-bribery policy should be appropriate to the level of risk your business faces. Your policy should include:
    your approach to reducing and controlling the risks of bribery
    rules about accepting gifts, hospitality or donations
    guidance on how to conduct your business, eg negotiating contracts
    rules on avoiding or stopping conflicts of interest.

    As regards stress and harassment, which to my mind, comes under the health and Safety Act—(because not knowing if you are going to be sanctioned from day to day causes stress, and stress can cause strokes and heart attacks etc) they have polices on the DIRECTGOV site which includes:

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/stress/index.htm

    What are bullying and harassment?

    Examples and definitions of what may be considered bullying and
    harassment are provided below for guidance. For practical purposes those
    making a complaint usually define what they mean by bullying or harassment
    – something has happened to them that is unwelcome, unwarranted and
    causes a detrimental effect. If employees complain they are being bullied or
    harassed, then they have a grievance which must be dealt with regardless of
    whether or not their complaint accords with a standard definition.

    How can bullying and harassment be recognised?

    There are many definitions of bullying and harassment. Bullying may
    be characterised as offensive, intimidating, malicious or insulting behaviour, an abuse or
    misuse of power through means that undermine, humiliate, denigrate
    or injure the recipient.

    Harassment, is

    unwanted conduct related to a relevant protected characteristic, which has
    the purpose or effect of violating an individual’s dignity or creating an
    intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for that
    individual.

    Behaviour that is considered bullying by one person may be considered
    firm management by another. Most people will agree on extreme cases
    of bullying and harassment but it is sometimes the ‘grey’ areas that cause
    most problems. It is good practice for employers to give examples of what
    is unacceptable behaviour in their organisation and this may include:

    •spreading malicious rumours, or insulting someone (particularly on the
    grounds of age, race, sex, disability, sexual orientation and religion or belief)

    •copying memos that are critical about someone to others who
    do not need to know

    •ridiculing or demeaning someone – picking on them or setting
    them up to fail

    •exclusion or victimisation

    •unfair treatment

    •overbearing supervision or other misuse of power or position

    •unwelcome sexual advances – touching, standing too close,
    display of offensive materials, asking for sexual favours, making decisions
    on the basis of sexual advances being accepted or rejected

    •making threats or comments about job security without foundation

    People being bullied or harassed may sometimes appear to overreact to
    something that seems relatively trivial but which may be the ‘last straw’
    following a series of incidents. There is often fear of retribution if they do
    make a complaint.

    Why do employers need to take action on
    bullying and harassment?

    Bullying and harassment are not only unacceptable on moral grounds
    but may, if unchecked or badly handled, create serious problems for an
    organisation.

    summary of the law

    Harassment

    Harassment is “unwanted conduct related to a relevant protected
    characteristic, which has the purpose or effect of violating an individual’s
    dignity or creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive
    environment for that individual”.

    I will be writing the letter, showing it to my “advisor”, telling them i will be seeking advice from my EU member of parliament, my solicitor and sending said letter to Head Office.

    They are flouting their own rules left right and center…. not to mention that the Terms and Conditions of the UJ site itself (run by Monster Wordwide–a US company) are anything but safe, and they implicity state that WE have no control over our account and it is theirs to do with as they wish.

    That’s why I am composing a letter to the JCP and the Head Office.

    epsom

    October 24, 2013 at 1:11 pm

  50. When I used to work at the JCP I used to tell people they didn’t have to use UJM as did everyone else on my team. We all regarded it as a joke.

    jimtully89

    October 29, 2013 at 12:32 pm

  51. I lost universal job match user id but I remember the password already so could you please help me with that send it back to this email above .

    Mohammed Karimi

    November 8, 2013 at 11:23 am

  52. This site is to complicated to use. Very very poor system

    gary murphy

    November 14, 2013 at 12:49 pm

  53. To, Mohammed Karimi,

    I’m not sure this site is the place to ask that question. You may have better luck asking your jobcentre adviser. IF you’ve given them access to your account, then your user ID should be on their computer system.

    sean

    November 16, 2013 at 6:13 pm

  54. So many new agencies popping up over the last few months.. Where are the paid jobs??

    I’m seeing ads for jobs after workers on UJM, salary listed as JSA+ travel costs.

    Chris

    November 16, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    • Chris, My work programme provider, they have just got themselves a portal not unlike UJM but wit theirs it’s mandatory to sign up and allow access

      Wandsworthboy

      November 17, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    • Always check everything you sign.. My WPP used to print off a report at the end of each appointment for their files. They used to try and increase the required activity for my ESA at each appointment. Initially i was put on 6 activities per week although i was doing much more plus bulk posting spec letters by hand.

      They caught me out when they increased my target to match how many letters I was sending out. Except they didn’t want spec letters, they wanted this number to be actual job applications.

      I’m doing exactly the same thing now but under the heel of the SS Gestapo at the Knob centre. ESA or JSA they try to bend the rules as much as possible in the hope that they can get away with bullying. If they can’t get away with bullying you they sanction you for attending appointments you don’t know about.

      Chris

      November 17, 2013 at 5:22 pm

  55. Wandsworthboy :
    Chris, My work programme provider, they have just got themselves a portal not unlike UJM but wit theirs it’s mandatory to sign up and allow access

    No. If they say its mandatory, they are lying.
    You do NOT have to sign or give your permission.

    Go to this forum, and look at assassins’ posts in this thread.
    If you have time, read the entire thread.
    I have posted there myself, under the name “epsom”.

    http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=48749&start=160

    epsom

    November 17, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    • NO CAN’T GET OUT OF IT. PA SITS WITH YOU WHILE YOU SIGN UP AND POST CV

      Wandsworthboy

      November 17, 2013 at 12:57 pm

      • Wandsworthboy :
        NO CAN’T GET OUT OF IT. PA SITS WITH YOU WHILE YOU SIGN UP AND POST CV

        Sorry, You are wrong. Work programme providers have NO right to get you to do any mandatory activity.
        They are PRIVATE companies.
        Read EVERYTHING that you are asked to sign.
        Ask them to show you WHERE it states that it is mandatory.
        As long as you attend the WP, and do any reasonable activity BY CHOICE, you do NOT have to give your permission ir sign anything which they say is mandatory.

        As I said, read that entire thread.

        epsom

        November 17, 2013 at 1:25 pm

  56. I too have had this problem. Ingeus have set up their own portal. it’s been a mandatory activity under pain of sanction written down in an appointment letter

    Mr No Number 2

    November 18, 2013 at 9:55 am

    • I have stated many times that it is NOT mandatory, and ask them to show you where it sates that.
      The Governments OWN site, Universal Jobmatch, makes it clear that you have a CHOICE as to whether you allo9w them access.
      You need to register, yes, but thats all.
      So, if the Governments OWN site says you have a choice, then what the hell does a PRIVATE company, who run the WP, have the right to say that it is mandatory for them?
      YOU ASK FOR THE DOCUMENTATION THAT STATES WHERE IT SAYS THAT IS MANDDATORY, AND YOU DONT SIGN ANYTHING UNTIL YOU SEE IT.

      epsom

      November 18, 2013 at 11:32 am

      • Exactly.

        I am registered with UJM and have to show print-out of the list of jobs I’ve applied for , along with others from (much better) sites.

        The Dole and all these private companies running various programmes are Nosey Parkers enough as it is!

        Andrew Coates

        November 18, 2013 at 12:00 pm

      • Everything anyone signs with the JCP or WP is a CONTRACT. They may say it is an agreement, but it is a contract, bound by contract law.
        They cannot change what was in the original contract—UNLESS YOU SIGN AND AGREE.
        In other words, if they say that you must do, say 35 hrs a week jobseeking or that you have to do daily signing etc—AND IT WAS NOT IN YOUR ORIGINAL CONTRACT—-THEN THEY CANNOT CHANGE THAT ORIGINAL CONTRACT, UNLESS YOU SIGN ANOTHER.

        epsom

        November 18, 2013 at 12:17 pm

      • It’s there own portal BASED on UJM the appointment letter says toi sign up for their portal

        Mr No Number 2

        November 18, 2013 at 1:20 pm

      • Mr No Number 2 :
        It’s there own portal BASED on UJM the appointment letter says toi sign up for their portal

        Yes, you REGISTER with it, but do NOT give access. Same as UJ. Look at UJ’s own rules—it states that you do NOT have to give access….thats why there are two boxes there—for you to either give access or not.
        The WP provider is a PRIVATE company, and although it may be BASED on the UJ, they have even LESS right to tell you that it’s mandatory to give access! They are not a government body—-and you do NOT need to sign or agree to anything with them, as long as you attend there and do what is reasonable to find work.

        epsom

        November 18, 2013 at 1:29 pm

  57. We have been “requested” to remove “Strike jobs”.

    We have done so.

    Make of that what you will.

    Andrew Coates

    December 6, 2013 at 10:06 am

    • What’s a strike job? Any links to more info?

      Lucozade

      December 9, 2013 at 8:22 pm

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  59. The list of businesses with the most UK-wide job adverts on universal jobmatch right now:-

    CV Library (Job Warehouse Only)
    Agency Central Limited (Job Warehouse)
    Technojobs Job Warehouse Only
    Monster (Job Warehouse)
    CIT
    CareerBuilder (Job Warehouse)
    Jobs.co.uk
    Strike Jobs
    Nat. Apprenticeship Service
    UK Local Recruitment
    Kleeneze
    Hunkindistribution
    PK Prospekts
    Infocus Group
    Pieroth Ltd
    Jobsco UK Ltd
    Private Eye Service Ltd
    Boots (UK)
    Vicomte Bernard De Romanet Ltd
    Staffworks (uk) Limited
    Salian Group
    Manpower UK
    Maid2Clean
    EPCRS LTD
    Jobsgopublic (Job Warehouse Only)
    Vision Focus Group
    Harper Construction Recruitment
    Tjgrecruitment
    Adzuna
    Askew Distribution
    Shire Distribution
    Aberdeenshire Council
    Endeavour Group Distribution
    Shine Distribution Group
    Anglian Home Improvements
    Ados Solutions
    The Best Connection

    I would like to know how anyone finds a job the majority above are either republishing the jobs and gaining traffic (“relay”), fake jobs or scams.

    Universal Jobmatch

    January 18, 2014 at 12:30 am

    • Perhaps it’s time to do a post on this.

      Ipswich library is full, every single day, of people using UJM.

      You can hear their frustration.

      Andrew Coates

      January 18, 2014 at 11:48 am

      • Need to see if I can get a team of volunteers to go through about a million job adverts and work out the people behind each company/name, how many were fake jobs etc.

        For instance… WIV WEIN INTERNATIONAL AG (German) is the parent company of Pieroth Ltd and Vicomte Bernard De Romanet Ltd is also part of the group.

        A simple Google search reveals (allegedly) these people go to boat shows letting people sample good wine, so they order a crate, then receive basic supermarket-cheap wine instead which taste nothing like the sample they had.

        Universal Jobmatch

        January 19, 2014 at 1:42 pm

      • Universal Jobmatch is a great big steaming PILE OF SHITE!!

        Universal Job is a PILE OF SHITE!!

        January 19, 2014 at 4:00 pm

    • today it is nearly all CIT or adzuna

      Surfer

      January 20, 2014 at 8:27 am

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