Ipswich Unemployed Action.

Campaigning for Unemployed Rights.

David Freud: His Lordship on Getting People into Work.

with 52 comments

The Work Programme seems set to run from next year.

In the meantime we are getting reports that existing ‘providers’ (as if they are like nurturing parents…) of the Flexible New Deal  seem less and less interested in their ‘customers’.

Some people have not heard from their advisers for a considerable time.

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Written by Andrew Coates

July 27, 2010 at 9:27 am

52 Responses

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  1. Re not hearing from providers because of ‘The Work Programme’.
    I can back this up, I had a re-refferal to my provider A4E/RIP based at Crown House in Ipswich. This was classed as a rapid-re- refferal and should have taken 3 working days. This was 5 weeks ago.

    Philip

    July 27, 2010 at 10:49 am

  2. This is a huge problem with the refusals to comply to their contract. Both A4e (RIP) and TNG & YMCA Training in Ipswich are doing it, its a likely story elsewhere I have heard.

    Is this an COMPLETE refusal or is it DISCRIMINATIVE refusal?

    I am wondering whether they are saying no to everyone or only saying no to the people they have already “parked” or those they think cannot be cherry picked to success.

    Flexible New Deal

    July 27, 2010 at 11:40 am

  3. Hello ‘F.N.D’

    I am wondering too. When I checked with my advisor at Ipswich Jobcentre Plus, he phoned Rip and asked my previous advisor to contact JCP and put in an end date for my last session in the system so that I could be rereffered. So far nothing. Also am I right in thinking that the workprogramme[!] will start in this area in October this year ?. Any advice will be welcome.

    Philip

    July 27, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    • Good question, Philip. Ipswich was one of the places designated for the workfare pilot due to start in October. Does anyone have any news on this?

      Providers please feel free to respond instead of keeping you clients in the dark!

      Funny A4e Photos

      July 27, 2010 at 5:52 pm

      • I posted my letter from the Lowestoft Jobcentre handed to me The other time I signed on telling me this government has axed the Workfare sceame and I would no longer be required to partake in the trial.

        Unfortunatly nobody on this board seems to believe me.The truth is wWorkfare is axed so obviously Workre pilots are axed. The letter said that the new government would be bringing in its own ideas next year which I still may be required to partake in.

        Up Yours Heir Blair and Eva Brown.

        Lowestoft's Finest

        July 27, 2010 at 6:27 pm

      • No I did believe you Lowestoft.

        I was just disappointed not to get a similar letter when I signed on!

        Andrew Coates

        July 28, 2010 at 9:35 am

  4. Hello ‘F.N.D’

    I am wondering too. As an after thought to my last post. If I don’t hear and keep checking on when I can expect to hear and I am still not recalled could a sanction follow.

    Philip

    July 27, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    • You cannot be sanctioned for non-attendance if they dont refer you.

      Its their contractual obligation to have you on the scheme within a set period of time – not yours. All you had to do is attend etc. when you get notification from them.

      FND delivery in Ipswich is seriously shit (experience and what I have heard) so dont worry about not being called as all it is going to do is waste your time.

      Spend the time wisely by finding employment. All TNG/A4e etc. does is leech from your results into getting an outcome payment and one provider helped out a Future Jobs Fund employer… getting people into unsustainable employment at 20 or so hours a week and getting an outcome for it.

      This is why the Future Jobs Fund is a bad deal for the taxpayer. Not only they paying all the wages for someone, the hours not enough (not fulltime: 35-40 hours, and not under 16 hours so can get HB etc.) and the Government is paying thousands per person into these jobs to the provider for just overlooking the process.

      Flexible New Deal

      July 27, 2010 at 2:08 pm

  5. Unlike New Deal where service fees are variable per participants attendance…. Flexible New Deal is a service fee (top heavy) fixed… same amount doesnt matter how many people they see.

    This is fraud: they still are contractually obligated to deliver results regardless of the payment model.

    This is why all welfare programmes should be variable costs… makes it more complexed yes, but is an incentive to encourage providers to get participants involved.

    Flexible New Deal

    July 27, 2010 at 2:12 pm

  6. Well done, Lowerstofts Finest. So you did, I remember seeing your posting last week.

    Funny A4e Photos

    July 27, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    • I had to sign on again today and found yet another copy of the exact same letter waiting for me again telling me the exact same thing. At least it was welcome news.

      Maybe as Lowestoft’s foremost Intelectual the DWP are saving me for a future special mission all of my own?

      Lowestoft's Finest

      July 30, 2010 at 4:46 pm

  7. there is nothing in this that suggests anything,while commenting on different programs and downsizing those lord freud isnt mentioning that he was behind those also and enough “capital” has gone into these already and wasted.
    talking flexibility while a one size fits all will surfice is also complete rubbish as is the talk of “invest” that costs money and that’s everything in today’s job markets and its why there is pick and choose.there isn’t any sustainability in today’s job market and this another point that’s overlooked too.people placed on these programs have no confidence in them if someone feels like they are being exploited this is also a recipe for a non outcome,this combined with the near constant flow of controversy of the people behind all of this suggests another waste of money in the making.

    for the money pumped in its very hard to see what are the returns’ in the long term and it has to be suspected they are unsure too.

    ken

    July 27, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    • Ken,

      Here’s another problems they’ve created:

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jul/27/benefits-health-test-review

      “Work and pensions minister Chris Grayling is conducting an urgent review into a new medical test for incapacity benefit after fresh figures showed only 6% of those tested were deemed to be totally incapable of working.

      The figures, covering all new claims from October 2008 to the end of November 2009, show 39% are being tested as fit for work and a further 37% are dropping their claim before the assessment is complete. The figures are widely out of line with estimates initially made by officials from the Department for Work and Pensions.”

      Andrew Coates

      July 28, 2010 at 10:14 am

      • Andrew: Not to mention the 40% of IB claimants that had their decision ‘fit for work’ OVERTURNED on appeal.

        The govenment’s own estimates of how many IB climants could be declared ‘fit for some sort of work’ and shifted onto JSA and how long this process would take is based on the crystal ball method.

        Funny A4e Photos

        July 28, 2010 at 11:45 am

      • I call this DEFAULT DENIAL and is unlawful. So using the appeal process it gets overturned… and the appeal process (prior to and the Tribunal service) is a Quality Assurance process to ensure mistakes can be resolved – with a view that it can be prevented in the future.

        It isn’t the case of mistakes being made but FRAUDULENT claims to deny someone their benefits.

        So people could win their appeals but this is morally wrong as not everyone would appeal (many dont, you’ll be surprised) and you cannot base whether someone is deemed fit for work by their desire (or lack of) to appeal.

        To appeal is their legal right, however, failing or refusing to do so doesnt waiver away an second opinion nor does it makes the original decision correct if erroneous in law.

        The problem is, the people denied their benefits either use the lengthy and slow Appeal process or claim JSA so they have an income.

        Actually, regardless if they seek work or not which we all know is a condition of claiming JSA… they will be illegally claiming as another condition is to be fit for work*. They may lie to kick you off a benefit to force you on a cheaper benefit; but regardless of this these people are not entitled to claim JSA!

        This opens a can of worms… even if they get job interviews they wont get a job if they really are not fit for work. Those who decided to not exhaust the Appeal processes and just be forced on JSA, could, in a few years down the road be prosecuted for BENEFIT FRAUD; claiming thousands of pounds of taxpayers’ money they aren’t entitled to (in regards to JSA because they dont meet the conditions**).

        * JSA Act 95: 1(2)(f) (“is capable of work;”)

        ** Not being denied a benefit doesnt prevent you being a Benefit Fraudster. If I claimed a disability benefit by saying a factual account where the application was accepted even though I dont have a disability and whereas it was a DWP staff members mistake of accepting the application – I would be liable for INTENT at least. You could submit a defence in court that it was their mistake etc. but you would probably end up with Community Service.

        Flexible New Deal

        July 28, 2010 at 1:43 pm

      • “but you would probably end up with Community Service” or Workfare… same difference 🙂

        Tangerine

        July 28, 2010 at 3:37 pm

      • haha, as true as the tasks will be the same – there is a difference…

        Genuine Claimant Vs Benefit Fraudsters

        (Workfare Vs Community Service)

        Flexible New Deal

        July 28, 2010 at 4:30 pm

      • I heard on the Radio Scottish trading standards saying that in Scotland 70% of Incapacity Appeals are sucessfull, wheir as in England 70% of Incapacity Appeals fail, the only conclusion you can draw from this is the incapacity appeals system like the tests is a con and a joke.

        Lowestoft's Finest

        July 28, 2010 at 4:31 pm

      • I got that name wrong in my post it was Scottish CAB not Scottish Trading Standards

        Lowestoft's Finest

        July 28, 2010 at 4:36 pm

      • Something that needs to be raised:

        Scotland has a different legal system to England & Wales (and of course Northern Ireland also) but the majority of such legislation to the benefit system is UK or Great Britain wide.

        How can the cases go so differently?

        Again the systems are different but legislation (the majority) is the same… surely that raises many questions (or is it just me?)

        Flexible New Deal

        July 28, 2010 at 5:06 pm

      • its very unfair to place people with mental health problems on jobseekers allowance and expose them to sanctions which they are more at risk of,the “decision maker” is heavily biased at the best of times and while there is the appeal those who feel unwell may well not feel up to it let alone cope with the job centre environment,if unwell they might unfairly blame themselves increasing the illness problems when its totally not their fault,another problem “overlooked” is the probability of securing employment and coping and are highly likely to be sidelined by providers that are not providing.

        as for lord freud if the employment was available there wouldn’t be any requirement for he’s services for those that listen to him.its typical that the house of lords is out of touch as it is, let alone someone as many have privileged backgrounds with a bigot attitude to those less fortunate and are not capable of accepting or dealing with the realities associated with having to claim benefits and the situation they have created.

        ken

        July 28, 2010 at 5:33 pm

      • The following is also from the BBC Radio Scotland programme.

        ME sufferer Vikki Bell was dismissed from her Department for Work and Pensions desk job she had held for 15 years, after an Atos assessment concluded she was too ill for the role, and was unlikely to return in the foreseeable future.

        But just three weeks later when applying for ESA, she was told by another Atos assessor that she was fit to work and did not qualify for the benefit.

        Atos said the tests undergone by Ms Bell – who has since qualified for ESA after reapplying – were different with different criteria!

        Funny A4e Photos

        July 28, 2010 at 5:35 pm

      • Interesting Funny A4e photos. Cheers.

        What pisses me off is the media loves to back these cases what I call IRONIC.

        I couldnt give a shit if she used to work for the DWP! Does that give her special claim-any-benefit-you-like status? Noo… ok, after working for them for so long you might feel betrayed or what not but these cases get highlighted, what about other genuine claimants who have these problems? Most are hidden well below the surface.

        Flexible New Deal

        July 28, 2010 at 8:32 pm

      • Flexi, they had quite a few claimants phoning the programme recounting their experience of Atos. The programme wasn’t just about the woman who worked for the DWP.

        Funny A4e Photos

        July 28, 2010 at 9:26 pm

      • Flexi I agree totaly,
        the whole 70% of Incapacity appeals failing in England thing by itself shows something is deffinatly wrong here (even without comparing to the Scottish Appeals figures).

        If we are to believe the English Appeals results then 70% of GP’s who signed people on sick were wrong in the first place, where as the ATOS panel are always right?
        A friend of mine had to endure an ATOS medical and all the ATOS panel were Polish he had great difficulty understanding them as their English was so bad he also wonderd if they could understand what he was telling them? There was a lot of controversy when a German Doctor covering for a British GP recently managed to kill a patient by misconduct giving him a massive overdose. It turns out that EU Doctors can work in the UK without having to take language or competancy tests that foreign or commenwealth doctors would have to take, it also looks like the German doctor came here becouse he had a record of problems in Germany which would have given him problems working there.

        I don’t think its right that Polish Doctors can work here with no testing as Polish training and qualifications are no where compatable with the higher levels of ours.

        An example of which being the recent air crash in Russia that wiped out most of Polands heads of State, which could have been avoided if everydody who counted wasn’t idioticly all travelling on the same plane which was unbelievably flown by a piolot who had huge gaps in his training especialy when it came to flying in fog, yet the Poles couldn’t see anything wrong with this combination.

        Lowestoft's Finest

        July 29, 2010 at 8:02 am

      • @ Lowestoft’s Finest

        Re. the Poles

        The Polish Wikipedia is the 4th largest Wikipedia on the planet.

        Explain that! 🙂

        http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias

        Old Timer

        July 29, 2010 at 8:09 am

      • If your GP tells you – you are unfit for work, and your hospital consultant tells you you are unfit for work. How can ATOS/DWP or whoever overide their descions and say that you are fit for work. If the medical evidence from your GP and your hospital consultant prove you are unfit for work ATOS/DWP would have asked for this evidence. Yet they can still OVERIDE IT. ?????

        philip

        July 29, 2010 at 8:15 am

      • Old Timer:

        Funny list… there are a lot of wiki encyclopedia websites that have elss than 1000 pages – thats pointless surely?!

        Also, there is no mention about how many of them articles are Stubs – quite a lot I would imagine as there are only just under 800 images

        Flexible New Deal

        July 29, 2010 at 8:21 am

      • Lowestoft… I am sure there are many pages on the air crash on the Polish wikipedia.

        On to a more serious note… this is the problem with the EU:- everyone has a right to work in different EU countries (possibly a few exceptions) and what I would call rather COMMON SENSE attributes, dont count.

        I have no problem of the persons nationality, how new they are to the country or even if they are qualified… if they dont have a wide understanding of the language, then I think I would rather an English speaking JUNIOR doctor (of whatever race or nationality) than an experienced doctor who could make easy mistakes.

        Slip of the tongue… we aren’t talking about a letter ending up at the wrong place, we are talking potentially a fatality.

        I think this stems wider though and I know a few people will have a problem with this statement….

        “Us Brits spend millions of pounds buying phrase books and language classes to speak some of the ‘lingo’ before we go on holiday, so how come so many inconsiderate foreigners come here for whatever reason without the ability to even say hello or string a sentence together?”

        There will be exceptions of people fleeing their country and getting asylum here for their own safety – this is fair enough. If people coming here on holiday/tourism visits… is a few words that difficult to grasp knowledge of? I dont think so. People coming here to work… learn some phrases!

        I have spoke to many people who dont have English as their mother tongue and many dont pronounce words correctly, use wrong words or dont have proper sentence structure etc. but it doesnt matter as its understandable and communication can occur.

        Flexible New Deal

        July 29, 2010 at 8:39 am

      • Old Timer

        I find the spate of Russian jokes that came out immediatly after the Polish air crash to be in very dubious taste such as the callous explanation:

        “That if the Poles can’t handle their drink, they shouldn’t be flying”.

        So as a Gentleman I won’t post any here. But if you want me to explain Plankopedia I challenge you to explain why the Americans not short of their own home grown stupid citizens and having the whole worlds less able imigrants appearing on their shores to choose from should single out the Poles to make their stupid jokes about?

        Flexi on a more serious note The ATOS Polish doctors panel who saw my mate were interviewing him for his medical on mental issues ground, so how on earth can they come to the right judgement when nobody concerned can realy understand what is being said? its an utter disaster for anybody with mental issues on incapacity especialy.

        Lowestoft's Finest

        July 29, 2010 at 4:15 pm

      • The flying Poles are remembered for rather different reasons round here Lowestoft.

        There was a base of them near Felixstowe during the second world war.

        They flew for the RAF on the most dangerous missions.

        As one old-timer (who worked most of his life after the war for Churchman’s tobacco company where the CSV is now) said in the pub,

        “They were the bravest of the brave”.

        Andrew Coates

        July 30, 2010 at 8:50 am

  8. The Fairyjob Mother.

    Heard there will be another series of this, some providers will use it as a training video too

    philip

    July 28, 2010 at 8:17 am

  9. FND. This has already happened in a case near me infact it is regarding a doctors father in a surgery near me. This doctors father was seen by a german locum and it had fatal consequences. Look for doctor gray in google

    Kyron

    July 29, 2010 at 3:45 pm

  10. from my experience gps’ are under pressure from the dwp to get people off medicines,placing mental health people on jobseekers with problems’ has the potential to have them there for a long period of time and is unwise to expose them to this as there are great risks’ in doing so,i have been on jobseekers now for a decade and if thats not proof it doesn’t work i don’t know what is,having done new deal in the past run of the mill a lot of people have said a lot of things they should not have,partly my fault for not speaking out earlier but this highlights the risks of saying nothing. to be fair they new something was wrong over time but were not sure what,its no good lecturing to people employers want this that and the individual has trouble coping.

    ken

    July 29, 2010 at 5:57 pm

  11. Ken I agree totaly,

    I had a mate who worked in the print trade, basicly he had had enough of it to the level where his whole existance both in or out of work revolved around living to hate his job of every second of every year.Year in year out.

    I said its bloody obvious that he needs to get away from the job using any means possible but everyone else insisted he just needed a change of employer but in reality his employeer was treating him great. He went to work in a new company and things went even worse for him mentaly he ended up having some kind of temporary stroke which was caused by mental not usual physical reasons. He was then off work for a while and went back again again his new employer was great to him but he was now in seriously LaLa land then he finaly cracked up fully to the extent that his aged mum now has to look after him fulltime and he is never going to work again.

    When you witness someone go down the plug hole like this over nothing you realise what shit governments talk about helping all people with mental problems back to work becouse this was precisly what did for him. At worst if he had spent the rest of his life on the dole he would have been a person with a bit of an occasional attitude problem but ok and fully functional unfortunatly thanks to work he is now for the rest of his days a cross between a cabbage and a zombie who can’t function by himself.

    Anyone who saw what happend to him would realise that governments and DWP need to cut people with mental problems some slack.

    Lowestoft's Finest

    July 29, 2010 at 7:36 pm

  12. this can happen for many reasons in someones like,personal loss/circumstances and trigger many problems for example,when on new deal the adviser was saying at interviews shut up or they’ll think whats this or there is no room here for individuality here in the workplace,this all goes against the rose tinted spectacle statements that are made,all this does is feed tabloid headlines and encourages an ill unenlightened perspective of the truth.
    as far as i can tell this all arose from peter hain some time ago with ill advised statements that were flippent in their views towards views of mental health and took no account of the barriers placed on those in wider society in their account.
    this was termed a fitter healthier uk plc however this in reality is a very shortsighted view,the risks towards those on jobseekers is enormous given the rules and it is no place for those who no fault of their own are forced onto this benefit with what could be said to be predictable outcomes.

    so much for david cameron’s we will take care of you it might as well been said once and for all.

    ken

    July 29, 2010 at 8:29 pm

  13. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1298830/Coalition-tear-welfare-Tax-credits-biggest-reform-decades.html

    Coalition to tear up welfare system: Tax credits to go in biggest reform in decades

    Labour’s flagship tax credits could be scrapped in the biggest shake-up of Britain’s welfare system for decades, a leaked government paper reveals.

    Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith will today set out dramatic plans to simplify the complex benefits system and make work pay as the Government attempts to rein in welfare dependency.

    Last night a leaked copy of Mr Duncan Smith’s command paper, called 21st Century Welfare, made it clear that his aim is nothing less than tearing up the welfare system and starting from scratch.

    It highlights how four or five separate benefits are withdrawn as people move off the dole and into work.

    For 130,000 people, the effect of working more than 16 hours a week is to remove 90p out of every extra pound they earn. Some 1.9million people lose 60p in every additional £1 they earn.

    The proposals spell the end for Gordon Brown’s cherished system of tax credits, which critics say are too costly and vulnerable to error and fraud.

    The command paper explores several options, but Mr Duncan Smith’s preference is a so-called ‘universal credit’.

    Housing benefit, income support, council tax benefit, working tax credit and child tax credit would be replaced by a single benefit, which would be withdrawn at a uniform rate so people trapped on welfare would have a clear and rewarding path back to work.

    The reform would initially be expensive – requiring about £3billion in investment, which is likely to pitch the Work and Pensions Department into a battle with the Treasury.

    The paper explores cheaper options, including a single taper rate for all benefits; a sin­gle working-age benefit, replacing all others and non-means-tested for the first 12 weeks; and the so-called Mirrlees model, which streamlines family credits and benefits into a new ‘family allowance’ benefit.

    In a speech in East London today, Mr Duncan Smith will say: ‘After years of piecemeal reform the current welfare system is complex and unfair.

    ‘For many people, taking a job leaves them no better off than a life on benefits, and this has trapped significant parts of our society in inter-generational worklessness and entrenched poverty.’

    He will point to the frustration experienced by many claimants who are forced to pay back money because the complicated system often gets calculations for benefits wrong. Last year the Department for Work and Pensions paid out more than £3bn because of mistakes and fraud in the benefits system.

    ‘The complexity of the system also creates risk and uncertainty for the people in society who most need stability,’ Mr Duncan Smith will say.

    ‘We want to simplify the system to make it clear that work will always pay.

    ‘Our reforms should also ensure the system is easier for individuals to understand and will reduce the high costs of fraud and error.’

    The Government also wants to rein in benefits for the middle classes as it struggles to reduce the budget deficit left behind by Labour. Nine out of ten families qualify for hand-outs and households can be eligible for tax credits even if they earn up to £60,000.

    Labour said the changes were a cover for cuts. Shadow work and pensions secretary Yvette Cooper said: ‘This is a sham to cover the fact that the Budget actually cut work incentives, cut jobs and cut help for people to return to work.

    ‘Labour’s minimum wage and tax credits made many families thousands of pounds better off in work. We think it’s good to go further, but the truth is that the Budget is heading in the opposite direction, cutting tax credits and increasing withdrawal rates.

    ‘Major reform either costs billions or means taking money from those who need it most. Iain Duncan Smith needs to be honest and tell us which it is.’

    Daily Heil

    July 30, 2010 at 12:26 am

    • OK lets look at the wider picture… they can’t bring the third world UP… so they take the western world DOWN?
      First get as many as you can on benefits… they won’t complain!
      Then start to drag wages down for the workers… they won’t complain, they are WORKERS by nature!
      Then get a benefit top-up to get folk working for LOW wages!
      Then slowly pull the top-up DOWN… job done… EVERYONE is working for slave wages…. JOB DONE? ..

      Valerie D

      July 30, 2010 at 10:51 am

      • All part of the “Master Plan” love. First off we had Brown who gave us Tax Credits which do nothing more than hold down real wages, train the proles into working for subservient wages, form part of the Job Centre’s bogus “better of in work” calculation (where Tax Credits are awarded on LAST years income, but what the Job Centre don’t mention is that they will be re-assessed at the end of the Tax Year on THIS year’s income, with any overpayment repayable)

        Now that the proles have got used to working for subservient wages along comes IBS to remove the said Tax Credits. A cynic would think that this pair of clowns were in this together.

        Hovis

        July 30, 2010 at 11:21 am

    • The UK benefits system is incredibly complicated. And Labour, despite being in power for 13 years, far from trying to simplify the system, made it even more complicated by their constant changes to benefit rules and regulations.

      I share the scepticism of many posters on this topic. And has already mentioned by others, any reform will cost billions and take several years.

      But I suspect the Brokeback Coalition government might just settle for reforming some less complex benefits like Child Benefit and give up on many others as it it becomes increasingly complicated and correspondingly more expensive.

      Funny A4e Photos

      July 30, 2010 at 12:50 pm

      • “Brokeback Coalition” – no homophobic Tory bullshit please.

        Old Timer

        July 30, 2010 at 2:01 pm

      • I think Funny A4e Photos is dead right on this. The government will go for the low hanging fruit like child benefit (for the better off so it doesn’t effect child poverty levels) There just is’nt enough money in a JSA payment to cut so thats not in contention. They are going to find it hard to do any JSA related cuts as well as those arch traitors Neo-Labour have already got there first and already done away with everything from the £15 a week work placement expences to Advisers Discretionary Grants all disappeared without one word of dissent from any of them who were probably preoccupied fiddling their MP’s expences and taking bungs from big buisness to influence government decissions and protect their own life style when they got inevitably kicked out at the election.

        Lowestoft's Finest

        July 31, 2010 at 9:15 pm

      • BrokeBank Coalition

        Lowestoft's Finest

        July 31, 2010 at 9:18 pm

    • i know someone who received those tax credits and just said don’t bother,he said he had to pay £700 back

      ken

      July 30, 2010 at 5:46 pm

  14. Good Riddence to Neo Labours Tax Credits that made the poorest workers even poorer with their overpayments that have to be paid back even on min wage. I owe nearly £400 thats nothing to millionaire Blair but a hell of a lot to Lowestoft’s Finest. They just pushed the poorest into more debt.And many of the poorest min wage workers were so scarred of this happening to them that they refused to claim them.

    If you had a temporary job bellow a certain amount of time or a part time job you couldn’t get tax credits right when you needed them most, disgustingly if you were in a min wage job and your boss cut your hours to bellow 30 your tax credits went to so you were trapped in a job you would never have taken in the first place as you can’t live on the wages but can’t give up as the DWP will say you jacked in your job so no JSA.

    As I said before all these problems could have been avoided if Neo-Labour had had any balls and ditched the tax credits idea in the first place and gone for a higher realistic min wage that ounce in work you know you are going to get as with tax credits they often take a while to arrive which is useless if you are paying travel fares to work on top off everything with no savings as you have come off the dole.I actualy think that this is the real reason so many workers risk it by keep signing on for the first month of work till their first pay packet arrives.

    Lowestoft's Finest

    July 30, 2010 at 7:03 am

    • I will wait before I get the full details of these changes and then – with others – work out exactly what they mean.

      Anyone would welcome change to the existing system.

      But I suspect that a government cutting like mad is not going to offer us anything on a plate.

      Andrew Coates

      July 30, 2010 at 8:54 am

    • “higher realistic min wage that ounce in work you know you are going to get”

      Better to be working for an actual wage that you know that you are going to get than for a top-up/subsidy that can be withdrawn at at whim.

      Hovis

      July 30, 2010 at 11:27 am

  15. Laurel And Hardy could make a better job of runing things than the clowns we have now. And Laurel and Hardy WERE CLOWNS.

    philip

    July 31, 2010 at 7:18 am

  16. Reading between the lines the intention of Lord Fraud, IDS and their cohorts is clear: Dramatically lower the benefit bill as the government knows damn well there are going to be be people languishing on them for years given the state of the job market. So people will get a few quid (without any chance of it being taken away for not taking any particular job – maybe), but the amount is going to be much less. Top rate JSA is £65 a week currently, I expect the equivalent payment made under an Universal Credit system or whatever it ends up being called to be somewhere between £30-40 a week. In essence it will do the reverse of what it purports – make the poor better off. Claimants will receive so little money that they will be in an even weaker position than usual, and I full expect this reform to be link to the dissolution of the minimum wage (http://www.flexible-new-deal.co.uk/2010/07/24/national-minimum-wage-dissolved/) . Basically the unemployed are going to be thrown to the wolves.

    Scorpion

    July 31, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    • If Lord Fraud thinks that he can lower JSA to between £30-£40 a week he will not as you say be throwing the unemployed to the wolves, but in reality to use a Ukrainian saying will be “Calling the wolf from the woods” JSA at £30-£40 will kick off the biggest wave of rioting and crime wave we have seen for years that will cost the country so many more times than it saves and see his government back off so it never goes near the unemployed and then puts it in the position to have to make savings by cutting someone elses money more worthy in the publics eyes or see it all kick off again and incurr more costs.So no way will he do it, he can’t in reality blatantly cut back JSA as you indicate it is to low to live on as it is at best he can try to cut it by linking it to some unrealisticly low index but nothing more than a few single pecentage points.

      For a start most our JSA goes paying bloody Energy bills.There is so little left after that that JSA can’t be halved.

      Lowestoft's Finest

      July 31, 2010 at 3:19 pm

  17. I have beeen listening to the crap that this government and it’s crusty advisors who are quite frankly clueless. And have discovered where they get their sayings from.
    UK History the documnentary channel.

    Arbeit macht frei ? Concentration Camps aka DWP WORKFARE

    strength through Joy ? DWP WORKFARE MANTRA. People who comply wont be strung up with piano wwire

    Kyron

    July 31, 2010 at 8:24 pm


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